Re: Is God and Jesus the same person?
Originally posted by Jackie Malfoy
I am aware acouse that some relions think they are the same while others don't!Which makes it very confusing to me.
So what do you think and what are your thoughts on this?Remember there is no right or wrong answear!JM 😕 😮
According to my religion, they're the same.
God has three personalities- God Father, God Son(often known as Jesus), and God the Holy Ghost(known as the Holy Spirit).
But it's all one God just three different personalities- it's called the trinity.
"According to my religion, they're the same.
God has three personalities- God Father, God Son(often known as Jesus), and God the Holy Ghost(known as the Holy Spirit).
But it's all one God just three different personalities- it's called the trinity."
Agreed thumbsup
"God is three persons in one....God the Father , God the Son, God the Holy Ghost.....think of it in human terms...we're body, spirit, and souls"
Yep ✅ thumbs_up
"Why do you keep referring to the bible as if it is fact.
If you only believe that the bible is the word of god because it says so in the bible, isn't that a rather circular argument.?"
So would, in a way, be the arguement that it is fiction. 'its fiction because i dont believe it. If i dont believe it, it must be fiction. it therefore must be fiction because i dont believe it.' Round and round if u ask me. *shrugs*
"What right does God have to send another to die on the cross? It was a choice. Only God has the right to make the choice to give his life. Just like a guy diving in front of the president to take a bullet. Only he can make the desition, and not be evil."
Yeah, but remember in the garden of Gethsemene 'Your will not mine.' 😉
Originally posted by Ytaker
Only a God should be worshiped. No false idols. Unfortunately for people like you 😈, our religon isn't a Polygamy. We don't bow our knees at the ten commandmants, but we do at any God. Be told.
Yes, only God should be worshiped. And God should be obeyed.
It is God who commanded His people to worship Christ... not Christ commanded His people to worship Him.
As I said... It is God's commandment to worship His Son, Jesus Christ. We worship Him, not because He is God (because He was never proclaimed as God), but because to give glory to the Father who is in heaven.
🙂
Originally posted by Ytaker
What right does God have to send another to die on the cross? It was a choice. Only God has the right to make the choice to give his life. Just like a guy diving in front of the president to take a bullet. Only he can make the desition, and not be evil.Christ as a human is that. God solved a task by becoming human. But still, look at the examples where Jesus was weak. Take where he cursed the Fig tree. One could easily see that as a reference to the fruit Israil owed God. An acted out parable. Jesus never showed any weakness unless it was unavoidable, or for his faith. Plus he was omniscient sometimes. He read the pharisee's minds after healing the guy with bad legs who came through the roof. He predicted the fall of the temple in Mark 13 1-2, which happened in 70 AD.
Where in the Bible exactly tells us that God Himself became a human being?.. and became Jesus Christ? 🙂
Yes, Jesus Christ indeed performed such miracles... but didn't He say that without His Father, He can do nothing? Why would He say that if He is the God Himself?
Remember, that throughout the Bible, it is not only Christ who did miracles to proclaim the highness of God. Even the Apostles of Christ performed similar miracles as to Christ did.
They were the instruments of God to prove that God is still supreme among them.
🙂
Originally posted by eleveninches
if there is a god, then he wouldnt discriminate depending on what your religion is. Why would such a powerful being need the worship of mortal humans to make him feel secure and loved.On the other hand, why bother being a god if there is nobody to worship you.
Irrelevant. 🙂 We are not talking here about the existence of God.
Don't we have a thread like "Is there really a God...?" or something? You can come there and ask.
🙂
God became Christ?
On the Flesh of Christ
by Tertullian
”Thus the nature of the two substances displayed Him as man and God … this property of the two states – the divine and the human – is distinctively asserted with equal truth and both natures alike … The powers of the Spirit proved Him to be God, His sufferings attested the flesh of man”The Ante-Nicene Fathers
Vol. 3, p. 525
”Secondly, that Jesus Christ Himself, who came (into the world), was born of the Father before all creatures; that, after He had been the servant of the Father in the creation of all things – ‘For by Him were all things made’ – He in the last times, divesting Himself (of the glory), became a man, and was incarnate although God, and while made a man remained the God which He was; that He assumed a body like to our own, differing in this respect only, that it was born of a virgin and of the Holy Spirit”The Ante-Nicene Fathers
Vol. 4, p. 240
In the absence of valid biblical basis, such a confounding and absurd doctrine had to rely on faulty inferences. Biblical verses were stretched in the attempt to prove that Jesus is both God and man.
Thus, the concept that God became Jesus, and Jesus is both God and man – the exact idea of the doctrine of the hypostatic union – is nothing but a complete absurdity.
Jesus Christ praying to God
The Bible records several instances of Jesus praying to God or to the Father, showing His disciples that like them, He is a man who needs help from God.
”In the days of His flesh, He offered up both
prayers and supplications with loud crying
and tears to the One able to save Him
from death, and He was heard because
of His piety.”
Hebrew 5:7
If it were true that Jesus Christ is both God and man, then His prayer would be nothing less than superficial.
It would appear that he was praying to Himself, which is truly an inconsistency. And why would Jesus, if he were the same God as the One to whom he was praying, pray to Himself?
The truth is, Jesus’ prayer is an expression of His dependence on the one God who can save Him from death.
Jesus Christ is not omniscient
”Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
“No one knows about the day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
Mark 13:30-32
Clearly, Christ is saying He is not omniscient. Unlike God, Christ does not know the exact day and the hour of His Second Coming. And since Christ is not omniscient, then it appears that if He were God, He could only be so in an inferior and subordinate sense, a clear and gross inconsistency with the alleged belief of Father and Son as one God.
The verse clearly points to the supremacy of the Father as the Omniscient and the only true God since He alone knows the day and the hour of His Son’s coming.
And who is greater?
If it were true that Jesus was God while He was still here on earth and an omnipotent one, how could we reconcile such claim and Christ’s admission that:
”My Father is greater than I”
John 14:28
”Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ”
I Corinthians 11:3
Why would Apostle Paul issue such a statement if it were true that God who is supreme over Christ is Jesus Himself in a form of a human being on earth?
Such an inconsistency has left us with no option at all but to treat the doctrine of hypostatic union as a riddle devoid of solution.
A man still after resurrection
After Christ’s resurrection, He was mistakenly thought of as a spirit. That event would have been a good time for Him to expose His true state of being.
However, what Jesus exposed at that time was the glaring truth that He is different from God. Christ declared that He is a human being with flesh and bones; not spirit – not God. Jesus also told then after His resurrection that:
”… I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.”
John 20:17
There was no hint whatsoever that the disciples thought differently, or that Jesus would be ascending to Himself.
To put in clearer perspective, an image such as a picture, is not the very self or nature of what it represents. the image and the form or model from where it was derived are two different entities. Since God is invisible and powerful (John 4:24; genesis 17:1), His Son Jesus represented Him on earth as a tangible proof of His holiness and power (Hebrew 1:3), clearly demonstrated through the miracles, signs and wonders which the Father performed through Him (Acts 2:22). The Son likewise served as man's way to God, then and now (John 14:6; Hebrew 13:8). Being at the right hand of God in heaven, Christ always lives to make intercession for His servants (Hebrew 10:12).
🙂
Originally posted by Jury
[b]God became Christ?On the Flesh of Christ
by TertullianDe Principiis
by OrigenBoth Tertullian and Origen claimed that Christ had dual nature – He is both man and God. This position had made significant contribution to the formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity.
In the absence of valid biblical basis, such a confounding and absurd doctrine had to rely on faulty inferences. Biblical verses were stretched in the attempt to prove that Jesus is both God and man.
Thus, the concept that God became Jesus, and Jesus is both God and man – the exact idea of the doctrine of the hypostatic union – is nothing but a complete absurdity. [/B]
That's why I suggested a kenosis. Otherwise he would be schizophrenic. 🙂
Originally posted by Jury
[b]Jesus Christ praying to GodThe Bible records several instances of Jesus praying to God or to the Father, showing His disciples that like them, He is a man who needs help from God.
”In the days of His flesh, He offered up both
prayers and supplications with loud crying
and tears to the One able to save Him
from death, and He was heard because
of His piety.”Hebrew 5:7
If it were true that Jesus Christ is both God and man, then His prayer would be nothing less than superficial.
It would appear that he was praying to Himself, which is truly an inconsistency. And why would Jesus, if he were the same God as the One to whom he was praying, pray to Himself?
The truth is, Jesus’ prayer is an expression of His dependence on the one God who can save Him from death. [/B]
Or... it shows the idea that Jesus needs God, like sunlight needs the sun. He is praying to his divine nature in heaven.
Originally posted by JuryIf it were true that Jesus was God while He was still here on earth and an omnipotent one, how could we reconcile such claim and Christ’s admission that:
”My Father is greater than I”
John 14:28
”Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ”
I Corinthians 11:3
Why would Apostle Paul issue such a statement if it were true that God who is supreme over Christ is Jesus Himself in a form of a human being on earth?
Such an inconsistency has left us with no option at all but to treat the doctrine of hypostatic union as a riddle devoid of solution.
[/B]
I explained this an age ago. You cannot compare two things unless they are on the same power scale; I would not say that a virus was inferior than me. It would be self evident. Jesus was at the time, seperated from his divine glory in heaven.
You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
He is going back to his greater glory. You have to take it in context.
Originally posted by Jury
[b]A man still after resurrectionAfter Christ’s resurrection, He was mistakenly thought of as a spirit. That event would have been a good time for Him to expose His true state of being.
However, what Jesus exposed at that time was the glaring truth that He is different from God. Christ declared that He is a human being with flesh and bones; not spirit – not God. Jesus also told then after His resurrection that:
”… I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.”
John 20:17
There was no hint whatsoever that the disciples thought differently, or that Jesus would be ascending to Himself. [/B]
He was at the time. God performed kenosis. So, he was flesh and blood at that time (not now though). If we take it in context,
"Don't cling to Me," Jesus told her, "for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to My brothers and tell them that I am ascending to My Father and your Father--to My God and your God."
Then we can see why he didn't turn into a mystical spirit. He had not ascended, but wanted to finish his buisness on earth. Forty days later he did ascend. Till then, why would it be a perfect time?
Then the last bit
To put in clearer perspective, an image such as a picture, is not the very self or nature of what it represents. the image and the form or model from where it was derived are two different entities. Since God is invisible and powerful (John 4:24; genesis 17:1), His Son Jesus represented Him on earth as a tangible proof of His holiness and power (Hebrew 1:3), clearly demonstrated through the miracles, signs and wonders which the Father performed through Him (Acts 2:22). The Son likewise served as man's way to God, then and now (John 14:6; Hebrew 13:8). Being at the right hand of God in heaven, Christ always lives to make intercession for His servants (Hebrew 10:12).
I just had a thought. God is invisible, and a load of people saw him (. So they saw Jesus. He was God then. They called him "God". You cannot see God, just Jesus, and you call him God.
Sarai says "You are the God who sees me," for she said,
"I have now seen the One who sees me" (Gen 16:13)
"So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared." (Gen 32:30)
"Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel." (Ex 24: 9-10)
"they saw God" (Ex 24:11)
"We have seen God!" (Judges 13:22)
John 1:18: "No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only (or Only Begotten), who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Thus, John 1:18 does not mean that Jesus was not God, it only means He is not the Father. This verse presents no problems If you believe in the trinity, and when studied helps to find Jesus more often in the OT. Prior to Jesus living among us, and revealing the Father to us, no one had seen the Father. But because of the Incarnation, we can now cry, "Abba, Father" (Romans 8:15) and "Our Father who art in heaven"! Those who see the Son can see the Father.
I thought this was a forum on philosophy, not the Bible.
In my personal opinion, God is not a person, like you and I, and has no distinct shape. God is a presence of sorts. Its hard to explain. Anyway.
Is God and Jesus the same person. One, its "Are" not "Is". Second, according to my own personal theology, no. For God is not a person, because he has no distinct form. If one were to ask "Was God fully present in Jesus?", that would be a question I could, and shall, answer.
According to all denominations of the church, the answer is yes, and yet no. This question is the mystery of the Trinity. (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) The answer to your question, accordingto the church, is in the Nicene Creed, which was written quite some years ago as a prayer to the Trinity, not to God alone, and somewhat explains this mystery.
One of the verses in the creed is:
"We believe in Christ Jesus,
fully God, fully man,"
One analogy that my confirmation teacher used to explain it was that of the sun. The Father, the Creator, God, is like the actual sun itself. The rays and light of the sun are the Son, Jesus Christ, God as we can see him, just as we see the light of the sun. And the Holy Spirit is the heat that the sun gives, always present, but never seen.
This might have confused you, but trust me, your not alone. Most of the worlds theologions dont understand the Trinity themselves. Its a mystery that can never be fully solved.
And trust me, I'm pretty sure I'm right on this....I'm the son of two ministers.