Jesus Christ

Simple, yoda.

Jesus Christ is not God. He is not the God Himself.
According to Him: there is ONLY one true God... and that is His Father in heaven. Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that Jesus Christ is God. He never claimed to be God.

Yes. Jesus is a 'son of man'... because that's what He truly is.
Yes. Jesus is a 'son of God'... because that's what God says in the Scriptures. All prophesies in the Old about the 'son of God' - the 'messiah' - were fulfilled to Jesus Christ. These happened by virtue of God's will and God's plan.

Yes. Jesus has no power by Himself alone. He never claimed it was His own. He has the authority and power over all things because God gave those to Him. If Jesus is God, He doesn't need somebody to give Him power or authority... because God is synonymous to "omnipotent"... Jesus is not.

Yes. They are ONE... not of being God... but [as what you emphasized], as what we can read in John 10:28-29, Jesus Christ and the Father are of ONE accord - ONE purpose. The context is not about Jesus' being God or not. Jesus was talking about the CARING OF THE FLOCK. Meaning, they have one purpose of taking care of the flock.

Yes. God will never create another God. He will not even let Himself transform into a human being[or to become a man]... because He already declared the distinction between God and man: God cannot be a man and no man can be God.

Again, I believe to what Jesus Christ was saying that: the Father is the ONLY true God. John 17:1-3

Originally posted by yoda545
[BGOD IS THE FIRST CAUSE ---AN UNCREATED BEING !!!……how can he make another uncreated!!!!
Can he make another GOD!!!!! NOOO! [/B]

Jesus is not God, he is like anyone else. Jesus acted through God´s will, and at that moment he was God, that is what "the Christ" is. To simplify things, one can think that "the Christ" is the part of Jesus which was indeed God, but that is not something restricted only to Jesus, everyone of us has "the Christ" within ourselves. Jesus just manifested it.

Unfortunately, all the misconceptions, misinterpretations, and contradictions of the bible prevent bible followers to reach a coherent thinking, and so they must limit themselves to their misconceptions. It is true, what can I do !?

Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33).

The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior - Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."

In Revelation, an angel instructed the Apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation had. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected - proving His victory over sin and death.

Well there was the story where the people picked up stones to stone him because he said the "I AM" thing..

He wasn't considered divine really until one of the councils. Close call too on the vote, if I remember, and one murder to make it sway.

ur all daft u dont know what ur saying

debbiejo, Jesus was considered divine after the resurrection! Hence, the birth of Christianity. The disciples didn't even believe in Jesus after he was crucified. Here was Jesus (supposedly) the Savior of the world, and He's being killed on the cross. The Disciples lost all faith to include many others. When they heard about the resurrection they didn't even believe. Well, no kidding. It is not natural for human beings to rise from the dead. But, when they saw the risen Jesus, all the disciples did a 180 and preached the gospel under the most intense persecution... and even accused the Jewish religious authorities of knowing the truth about Jesus as well! They went from cowards to martyrs! If they are to proclaim such things to their adverts, they better be right and know what they are talking about. The Jews thought Jesus was a nut job stricken by God. The Nicean Councel never decided the deity of Jesus; the resurrection did.

The Councel of Nicea was formed to end heresy that was getting out of control. People were even falling back on animal sacrifice to cover sin. The Christian church noticed what a huge problem they had and set the record straight. One of (many) the topics the cousel set to rectify was the deity of Jesus Christ. The vote was a landslide debbiejo. If I remember correctly, the vote went 300 to 32. Don't quote me, but the councel overwhelmingly supported the deity of Jesus being God in the flesh as scripture so clearly reveals. The Nicea Councel was very much like the Jesus Seminar today: a large body of people expressing various issues surrounding whatever topic in a constructive manner-atheists are even present; and they cast votes regarding the meaning of scripture and even historical events! The Jesus Seminar exists today and holds meetings every "X" amount of years. Why don't you know this stuff?

Nobody told me who Jesus Christ was. I read the synoptics and came to that conclusion myself; that Jesus was God in the flesh. Remember almost a year ago I spoke about a DVD entitled "Christianity: The first 2000 years?" Well, it can be purchased on A&E's on-line store. The DVD goes through a great amount of detail regarding Christianity; it's about 4 hours long I think. It goes into so much detail about various issues that I felt like I wasn't learning anything and became frustrated (ha ha ha)! It was intimidating, but I stuck with it. Maybe you should buy it? Just a thought.

so basically wot i hav learnt out of all this is that the bible is full of contradictions!...coz in some places it claims jesus is god n in other places it says he is not....so this means either the bible is like this due to human error therefore not gods words!...or that the 'Father'/GOD in christanity seems confused!....either god is wrong .....which is impossible coz GOD is all perfect!!....or its the humans fault!!

USHOMEFREE even the Roman Catholic church new............

Pope Leo X, who reigned 1513-21, once said: "It has served us well, this myth of Christ. It has profited us well"

A slip of the tongue?

Myth based on older myths. Read them, you will see.

I still believe in Jesus when He said

"Father, the hour has come.
Glorify Your Son, so the Son may glorify You...
...and this is eternal life, that they may know You -
the ONLY true God..."
John 17:1-3

Focus on the words:

YOU [not US]
ONLY [there's no "ALSO Me" or "ALSO the Son" there]

A slip of the tongue?

Definitely not.

Originally posted by yoda545
i have 3 questions to anyone who belives in christanity....
1 - does christanity teach that god is powerful?
2 - is jesus god?
3 - if jesus is god and god is powerful than why couldn't he save himself from being cruxifed????

1-Yes
2-Yes
3-Because Christ came to die so that we may have life. So if he just got up and left, it would have defeated the purpose. Besides, he knew he could just get up and leave but decided that's not what God wanted.

It is an ancient heresy to say that Jesus is the father …according to all churches its blasphemy
This we can see in the holy trinity ..coz Jesus is always the 2nd person !
In Christianity it states: [the holy trinity]
‘the father is god , the son is god and the holy ghost is god
But there are not 3 gods but one god !

The father is almighty, the son is almighty and the holy ghost is almighty
But there are not 3 Almighty’s but one almighty !

The father is a person , the son is a person and the holy ghost is a person
But there are not 3 person but one person !

And so forth!!!!!!

I want to know wot language is this !!!…….sounds English but its totally contradicting it self!!!
Person , person, person…….not 3 persons but one !!!!!

If for example there are 3 identical triplets then if one commits murder can we hang the other coz the all look alike!!……then someone says no u cant coz they are 3 diff pple …..I say wot makes them diff and the otha person said their PERSONALITY……soooo……if their personality is diff then they are diff pple!!!….
It’s the same with the trinity ….now tell me u cnt imagine jesus wen say the FATHER …and u dnt imagine jesus wen u say the HOLY GHOST!…..they will always be 3 separate mental pictures In ur mind…u cn neva superimpose them as ONE!!!

So y is it as it is!!!!

^It's hard to decipher your writing, but the word trinity is never mentioned in scripture, nor it being persons.

The word "rapture" is never mentioned as well in scripture, but the concept and event is well expressed. The word "rapture" is a man made term naming an event. The same applies the term "trinity." In this case, it represents a concept. Sure, the term itself is not within scripture, but the concept is. Christians believe in a triune God: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit deriving from the same essence. The trinity has nothing to do with polytheism. It is montheistic in that, God has different ways of expressing Himself. Christians believe in one Almighty God. The concept of the trinity is hard to grasp for us humans... and that would seem normal for the simple fact that the Christian God is the transcedant creator of the heavens. God is outside of the lenght, width, time, and space demensions that we are governed and subjected to. It is impossible to understand! Just because it is difficult to understand, doesn't mean that it isn't true. In a nut shell, the Father rests in heaven, the Son (Jesus) is the physical form of God, and the Holy Spirit is the well... you guessed it; the spirit of God that dwells in believers and followers of Christ to help fight temptation and so forth.

Well the rapture thing is made up! It comes from 2 Thess, I think it was, where the speaker " ...caught up" It doesn't mean caught up into the sky. It could also be taken as "Caught up and out of a situation.
It's taken out of context and put in with Daniel 9, Matt. 24, and Rev...Daniel 9 along with Matt.24 is truly historical. Rev., is just symbolic.

The trinity is just a denominations view of the 3 in one, or a 3 being separate...Now the 3 separate is also found in many many pagan and other beliefs that are also older than scripture.

debbiejo

Your are spiritually blind. No pun intended. If you can't decipher the differences between Christianity and Paganism and their effects on world history; I encourage further study. It should be fairly simple: one had a profound impact on the world and continues this very day. It also corresponds to reality and can be varied under rigorous investigation under countless topics. The other did not have a profound impact on the world and has since been consumed by time. Moreover, it cannot withstand the scrutiny of rigorous investigation; it is limited in scope. And Greek Mythology is just that: Mythology. Personally, any persons having serious concern over religion may want to study religions of mass appeal: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. They dominate the world, hence they are taken more seriously. All three are founded on the Torah written by the prophet Moses. All believe that scripture was divinely inspired by a transcendent God, and therefore, is (or possibly) the ultimate truth.

Christianity may be false? However, if you are engaged in conversation over Christian theology or the Holy Bible, know what you are talking about. If you want to learn and get the most accurate account of the inner workings of a combustible engine, seek counseling from an auto-mechanic or engineer within that required field, not an 18 year old kid who changes the oil in his car from time to time. Again, Christianity may be false? But know what you are talking about. Study the Holy Bible fairly and honestly or seek counseling from a Christian theologian. And that entails more than skimming through its pages as if it were Playboy magazine. All scripture is neatly and tightly woven together making one uniform view on many topics. When studying scripture, you must read and understand its entire message. You simply can't focus and dissect portions of scripture to fit your argument or philosophical views. It's no wonder people think the Holy Bible is full of contradictions! Again, know what you are talking about. The Holy Bible is packed with symbolism, and only someone familiar with the scriptures will understand the meaning behind them. Common sense. Before you can learn and understand algebra, you must first understand basic math. The same applies to symbolism biblical scripture.

The Holy Bible does reveal in scripture an event (that humans named) the rapture; where Christ calls for His church (Christians) to be with Him sometime during the Great Tribulation. This is basic knowledge! All Christians believe this, and is not directed towards any particular denomination. What Christians disagree on is when the rapture will occur: pre, mid, or post? How can you have thorough knowledge of the Holy Bible and not know this? You blow my mind sometimes debbiejo. It feel like I'm talking with people who think tires are square.

And the concept of the trinity, whether borrowed or not; biblical Christians hold fast to it: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being of the same essence. Christians believe in one Almighty God! It is not some far fetched idea based on a few secluded portions of scripture. Biblically speaking, if you disagree with the Holy Bible and the core fundamentals that Christians hold true, but still call yourself a Christian while bending and twisting scripture to fit your fancy, you have (biblically speaking) occultic views based on heresy. So for all the "so-called" Christians who deny the deity of Jesus Christ just as the Jews did, don't call Him Jesus Christ. Instead, call him Jesus of Nazareth.

I do not mean to sound hurtful or angry. I mean no disrespect towards anyone. I became a member of this forum to have debates and learn about religion. However, most of the things that are talked about are pure nonsense, and I can't take conversation like that seriously. Not because I think you are right. But because I know you are wrong, and you are not being honest with yourself. I became a Christian because the facts forced me to. It was a practical decision. Never in all my study did I say to myself, "Ah... I'll let that one slide. I don't care what the facts say. I just want to be a Christian because I feel that it is right!" The heart cannot except what the mind rejects!

if these are pagan beliefs than y do u belive in them .....so r u trying to say that chrtianity is vastly based on pagan idea and myths!....looks like u pple cnt agree with each otha on about these beleifs......im aware that the trinity is not in scripctures ....thats y im questioning it......so y do millions of chrtistains belive in it ......also back in the 80s here in britain bishops came to an agreement that if pple did not want to belive that jesus wos the son of God then they didnt have to!!.......
more about the trinity - i actually found that it was mentioned in the Quran in chaptar 4 verse 171-----it says 'oh people of the scripture do not exceed the limts in your religion nor say of Allah [God] aught but the truth. the messiah isa [jesus], son of maryam [Mary] was no more than a messenger of God and his word, ['be' - and he was] which he bestowed on maryam [mary] and a spirit created by him; so belive in Allah and his messengers. say not: 'three [trinity]'! cease! [it is] better for you for Allah is the only one GOD gloriy is to him far exalted is he above having a son. to him belongs all that in the heavens and all that is in the earth'.
it is also mentioned in another place chapter 5 verse 72-73.

i found that the major diff in christanity and islam is wot they belive about jesus .....christinity teaches that he is the son of god and he died for our sins........whereas islam teaches that he was a mighty messenger of allah and was rasied to the heavens and he will return near the end of time!
islam emphasis tawhid......which means oneness of god....that god is one and alone he needs no partner and he does not beget......coz begetting is the function of the animal and human .......we cannot be compared to god!!.........coz we are the creation and he is the creator!!

the 3 major religions -christanity, islam and judasim all teache the concept of God as the central point and they all agree that god sent messengers to guide his creation!....but somwer down the line we hav split up into many religion and diff beliefs and lots of cultrual belifs wich seem to be misconcpeted as religious beliefs!!

Originally posted by yoda545
if these are pagan beliefs than y do u believe in them .....

Originally posted by yoda545
so r u trying to say that chrtianity is vastly based on pagan idea and myths!....

Originally posted by yoda545
so y do millions of chrtistains believe in it ......

Originally posted by yoda545
[
the 3 major religions -christanity, islam and judasim all teache the concept of God as the central point and they all agree that god sent messengers to guide his creation!....but somwer down the line we hav split up into many religion and diff beliefs and lots of cultrual belifs wich seem to be misconcpeted as religious beliefs!!

Originally posted by debbiejo

Funny too how the believers in ONE god are mostly the ones who start many of the wars, mixed with great, hate and intollarence.

wot do mean by this?....coz ww1 and ww2 wer not by those belived in one god they wer by christians who belive in jesus to be the son of god or those wid no religion!!.....if u mean the wars today......well u tell me wot does ur president bush belive coz most of the uproar in the world is coz of HIM and his admin!!.......war in afganistan....started by americans,war in iraq...americans, war in palestine by the zioneistis wid the help of americans!!

now this is coz there is a clash of beliefs about the one god they beilve in......as i said earlier christinty and islam calsh about the divinity of jesus ..........christanity n judaism clash coz the jews killed him.....and islm n jewdaism clash coz the jewish pple dnt belive in all the messengrs sent and they belive they are the chosen pple and therefore they should have palestine.....which we all knw is the central point for all da 3 major religions!!.

The Crusades, the Inquisition, the Reformation, witch hunts.
The determination to exterminate the Jews from the face of the earth cannot possibly be understood without the background of centuries of persistent and violent anti-semitism, generally encouraged by religious authorities.
The combination of nationalism, politics and religion has had deadly consequences for the people living in Northern Ireland.