Jesus Christ

[QUOTE=5668343]Originally posted by debbiejo
[B]
Yes
They are scared into it...The hell fire sermons, which are based in paganism also. Also the term of creator and Mary his mother is also in other story in Paganism, or believe in my type gods.
http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/HecateTrinity.html

so if christanity is paganism than y do they claim the bible to be GOD's words!........y cnt they just agree to the fact that its all manmade!...which has been edited thoughout history n is still being.....coz wen a new law arises in society and if the bible is against it then that message is taken out of the bible as a fabrication!!!.........god's words are fabrications??????????............so the creation calims to know better than the CREATOR!!!

Yes, jesus is god. Jesus is a part of God. There are three different parts of God, and they are callled the trinity. There is God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit, aka holy ghost, aka the spirit of god, aka river, aka river of life -anyways, they are all three different parts that make one god.And if he wasn't God then he wouldn't be able to save us from our sins on the cross and we wouldn't be able to go to heaven. See , they all fit together. Without God the father, there wouldn't be the plan of creation. Without God the son, aka Jesus, we wouldn't be the crucifction which allows us to go to heaven which was the whole idea, and without teh spirit of god with jesus, he wouldn't have been able to leave the spirit of god to be with us so we would be able to get saved and accept him as your personal saviour (im assuming you know what this means, it means that you can go to heaven again.) God is powerful, he is all knowing, all wise, all everything. He knows what you think, he knows how many hairs are on your head, he even knows everything you've ever done in your life. Therefore he is pretty powerful. He has the power to do anything he wants at anytime. If he wanted a camel to pop up at your kitchen table he could do it. Nothing is impossible with God. He is the most powerful thing ever to exist. There is no higher than God. Good thing hes a merciful one too! lol if u have any more questions write them out and ill answer them.

Originally posted by ushomefree

The Holy Bible does reveal in scripture an event (that humans named) the rapture; where Christ calls for His church (Christians) to be with Him sometime during the Great Tribulation. This is basic knowledge! All Christians believe this, and is not directed towards any particular denomination. What Christians disagree on is when the rapture will occur: pre, mid, or post? How can you have thorough knowledge of the Holy Bible and not know this? You blow my mind sometimes debbiejo. It feel like I'm talking with people who think tires are square.

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As for the rapture, yes I know it's common knowledge. But that is not what was taught by the earlier fathers. It was only the 2nd coming. Not a secret rapture.. If you look at the Geneva bible with reformer notes, you will see that there was no such teaching. It was only the 2nd coming. It had nothing to do with the so called pre, mid, or post trib ideas. As I have stated It was Darby and then Scholfied who have changed how the Bible should be taken with their dispensation views in the 1800's.

Originally posted by ushomefree

And the concept of the trinity, whether borrowed or not; biblical Christians hold fast to it: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being of the same essence.

You can find the same miracles in earlier stories such as the turning water into wine, walking on the water. Much of the stories are found in the worship of Mithra.

Mithra was born Dec. 25th
He was born of a virgin
His birth was witnessed by sheperds and by Magi who brought gifts
Mithra raised the dead, healed the sick
and made the blind to see, the lame to walk
casting out devils.
He ascended to heaven at the spring equinox (Easter)
Before returning to heaven Mithra celebrated a Last Supper with 12 disciples, who represented the 12 signs of the zodiac.
In his memory worshippers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with a cross.

According to Mithraic eschatology, the great battle between the forces of light and darkness in the Last Days would destroy the earth with its upheavals and burnings. The Christian notion of salvation was almost wholly a product of this Persian eschatology, adopted by Semitic eremites and sun-cultists like the Essenes, and by Roman military men.

After extensive contact with Mithraism, Christians also began to describe themselves as soldiers for Christ; to call their savior Light of the World, Helios the Rising Sun, and Sun of Righteousness; to celebrate their feasts on SUN-day.

USHOMEFREE can you keep your post to one subject please. They are so long.

It's amazing how truth can be distorted; not that you intentionally have debbiejo, but obviously, you have embarked on information that certainly does expound on issues. Mithra was a concept; an idea. A figment of ones imagination. Jesus Christ was a real flesh and bone human being. And the apostles knew him personally. The apostles also appealed to the firsthand knowledge of their readers or listeners concerning the facts and evidence about the person of Jesus Christ. The truth prevailed.

The apostles not only said, “Look we saw this,” or “We heard that,” but they turned the tables around and right in front of their most adverse critics said, “You also know about these things. You saw them; you yourselves know about it.” One had better be careful when he says to his opposition, “You know this also,” because if he is not right about the details, his critics will gladly and quickly expose his error. But this is exactly what the apostles did, and their critics could not refute them. All that was needed to end the Christian movement was the dead body of Jesus Christ. But, His body was never produced! Instead, the Jews were forced into fabricating a host of conspiracy stories to deceive the masses. Apparently, their efforts were not as powerful and evident as the risen Jesus, and so the Christian fellowship came into existence and flourished in the very city where He was executed and buried. Religious authorities stood helpless as the risen Jesus rocked the minds and hearts of people around the world! Big difference debbiejo!

Mithra: An old-Iranian god of light, contracts and friendship. He also maintains the cosmic order. Sometimes mentioned as the son of Ahura Mazda, he assists him in his struggle against the forces of evil, represented by Angra Mainyu. Mithra was born from a rock (or a cave). He fought with the sun and managed to capture the divine bull and slayed it before he ascended to heaven. From the blood of the bull came forth all the plants and animals beneficial to humanity.

With the emerging of Zoroastrianism, he was reduced to the status of Yazata. In the Avesta he was portrayed as having ten thousand ears and eyes, and he rides in a chariot pulled by white horses. In the 4 century BCE his popularity rose and again he held a high position in the Persian pantheon. Eventually his cult spread beyond Iran and Asia Minor and gradually became a mystery cult. The ascetic religion of Mithraism (to which only men were allowed) became increasingly popular among the Roman soldiers around 100 CE and at that time Mithra was known in Rome as 'Deus sol invictus' ("the unconquered sun"😉. Even the Roman emperor Commodus was initiated into Mithra's cult. When Constantine the Great was converted to Christianity in 312 CE, Mithraism started to decline and after a temporary revival under Julius the Apostate (331-363) the cult disappeared for good.

Mithra was worshipped in Mithraea, artificially constructed caves that represented his birth-cave. The ceiling looked like the starry sky and at the sides benches where placed for the ritual meals. In the center of the Mithraea was a niche which held a relief of the god, dressed in Phrygian clothing (short tunic and cloak, long trousers and a hat with a curled tip), who kills a bull. The Mithraea were spread all over the Roman empire and some 50 of these caves still exist in Rome today.

He is also known as Mitra in the Indian Veda.

Originally posted by ushomefree
It's amazing how truth can be distorted; not that you intentionally have debbiejo, but obviously, you have embarked on information that certainly does expound on issues. Mithra was a concept; an idea. A figment of ones imagination. Jesus Christ was a real flesh and bone human being. And the apostles knew him personally. The apostles also appealed to the firsthand knowledge of their readers or listeners concerning the facts and evidence about the person of Jesus Christ. The truth prevailed.
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You do understand why there are such parallels, don't you? It was to bring all the groups together under one rule. To make the pagans happy, along with trying to pull in the Jews, but they all knew what was happening. People that spoke out about it were persecuted and other writings were burned.
By the way...another long post by you. 🙄

Yes, another long post (ha ha ha)! I think we have beat this topic to a pulp. I'm finished. Good debate though. See you on the next thread.

Oh, don't quit it was getting interesting..Besides you didn't answer my questions. 📖

There are many histories in the bible which have pagan correlations, like Pandora history, and the Genesis ; David, and Goliath history, and the Babylonian/Sumerian myth of the Marduk, and the Tiamat. There is many other correlations between egyptian mythology and culture, Jesus is often related to Horus ; in the bible Jesus heal a blind man by spiting in his eye, and thats how the eye of Horus is healed by Thoth(or maybe Osiris, I don´t remember) ; there is some reference to Horus having 12 apostles or something like that(but I don´t know too much about this one) ; historians believe that the holy water thing came from egyptian magic which is based on enchanting water and then drinking it ; there is some relation between the goddess Neith, and Mary, both gave birth virgin to god ( its interesting that the title beloved was often applied to Neith, and the word for beloved in egyptian is Mery, which resembles Mary)

There is also a very interesting correlation between Satan and hinduism too, it seems that Satan came from Sanat which is a Kumara( a sacred being) in hinduism, he is associated to life, and creation, and Satan as he appears in the Genesis had some association to the creation of the world, the banishment of Adam, and Eve is associated to the creation of the world in a particular way.

Other thing is that Lucifer, and Jesus that in some perspective are the same thing. Luciferes translates lightbearer, and Jesus is taken as being the light bearer, there is an association between Jesus, and Venus when Jesus were born. Venus in many pagan cultures is associated to lightbearer as well. There is also some associations between Jesus, and Prometeus, both where lightbearers, and the concept of lightbearer is a greek thing that came into christianism.

These are just some correlations, and not very well detailed or explained !

Originally posted by debbiejo
From the earliest ages the concept of the Great Goddess was a trinity and the model for all subsequent trinities, female, male, or mixed. Anatolian villages in the 7th millenium BC worshiped the Goddess in three aspects. A virgin-Mother -Crone combination. It can be found on all continents. Yes, Christianity borrowed it. Just as they borrowed the other aspects of it.

I knew about that correlation between the celtic Goddess, and the trinity, and I did not know about the Hecate thing, I knew that the trinity had some greek origin too, but I did not knew it was from Hecate, interesting.

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One thing is clear and plain for me regarding God and Jesus Christ. And it's according to Jesus Christ Himself.

"Father, the hour has come
Glorify your Son, and the Son may glorify You...
...and this is eternal life:
that they may know You - the ONLY true God..."
John 17:1,3

The Father is the ONLY [and there is no other] true God.

The Bible did not mention that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit compose the ONE TRUE GOD. Hence, there is no Trinity concept in the Bible.

Maybe somebody from the proponents of Jesus' alleged divinity would try to answer these questions with Biblical back up, of course.

1. If Jesus is God, how could he die for our sins?
2. How can Jesus be “God” and have a “God” at the same time?
3. If Jesus was sitting at the right hand of God in heaven when the book of Revelation was written, why does Jesus continue to make such clear statements that our heavenly Father is his “God” if he himself is God?
4. If God cannot be tempted by evil, yet Jesus was tempted in every way we are, how can he be God?
5. If Jesus is God, then why does he pray to God and call Him “the only true God”?
6. If Jesus is God, why did he pray at all?
7. If Jesus is God, why did he say to his disciples: “Trust in God; trust also in me”?
8. According to the doctrine of the Trinity, the Father and Son are co-equal. If that is true, how can the Father be (in any way) greater than Jesus?
9. How can Jesus “be like us in every way” and still be “100% man and 100% God”?
10. If Jesus is God and God cannot be tempted, why would the Devil tempt Jesus?

I agree... Jesus is not God, but thats not what any good christian believes in... like the trinity thing, maybe it is not mentioned in the bible, but it is a fundamental part of christianism. What you are trying to do will eliminate contradictions, but it is a different believe from what christians usually believe.

Originally posted by Atlantis001
I agree... Jesus is not God, but thats not what any good christian believes in... like the trinity thing, maybe it is not mentioned in the bible, but it is a fundamental part of christianism. What you are trying to do will eliminate contradictions, but it is a different believe from what christians usually believe.

And I'm just lucky enough to be one of the few who were not deceived by the paganous, contradicting, and illogical Trinity doctrine.

What about the unpardonable sin thing.

So, what about 'unpardonable sin' thing?

It's unpardonable if you sin against the holy spirit in the scriptures...If you deny it are you sinning against it?

I'm not sure, which verse you are referring to. But for me, the unpardonable are those who continue to sin even though they have experienced the holy spirit, encountered the words of God, and refused to live a new life. Unpardonable is the one who is like a pig which go back to the mud after you have bathed him; and also like a dog who eats his own 'puke'.

Sounds like reincarnation to me.

Matthew 12:31-32 says, "And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

This verse makes it sound as though the holy spirit is greater than Jesus.

For the same reason. Unpardonable are those who continue to sin until the end of their breath. And this was applicable to the Pharisees who questioned Him at that moment and to the ones who reject Jesus Christ as the true Son of God.