maul vs. windu, no lightsabers

And did you see Palpatine in ROTS? He was keeping pace with Yoda, which neither of the two duelists in TPM can claim. Speaking of which, Yoda is 900 years old and needs a cane to walk, does that mean he would lose to an individual like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan because they are younger and in better shape?

Hardly. Windu in the clone wars and Shatterpoint has demonstrated he is in peak physical condition with tremendous strength and speed. He's probably the most powerful Jedi in the PT era as far as battlefield combat goes. I've yet to see any evidence that would link Mace as being inferior to Maul; whereas Mace put Maul's master on his ass.

I wouldn't say blindingly fast. He obviously wasn't fast enough to avoid being cleaved in two... 😛

Still, Mace is the second highest in the Jedi Order, both in swordsmanship and Force power. I doubt Maul has come anywhere close to achieving his power. Mace also has more experience...

...at tearing apart droid armies with his bare hands. 😄

Originally posted by Captain REX
Mace also has more experience...

So? Qui-Gon had 40 years on Maul, and Dooku had 60 on Anakin. So experience doesn't really matter. Darth Maul's many kicks to opponents wielding light-sabers were impressive, as opposed to Mace who put a grampa on his ass. Besides, Maul would just hafta head-butt Mace with his horns, and Master Windu would be swiss cheese.

What you just said DB is very gay. Mace took out several dozen possibly into the hundreds of Super Battle Droids unarmed. Like you said, Mace put Sidious on his ass and Sidious had defeated Maul. Maul hasn't really displayed much unarmed capability.

So you're basically attempting to prove an argument by using exceptions to the rule, right? So if A = B, then B must = C... wrong.

I can name just as many cases where superior experience trumped inferior experience, naming a few exceptions doesn't sway the case every time.

That "grampa" happened to be Maul's master and is by all accounts the superior of the two. Maul was matched saber for saber by Obi-Wan before he was pushed into a pit, and then got sabered by the same padawan. The same guy that 13 years later was told was too weak to defeat Palpatine by Yoda.

Somehow, you dodge my entire point about being old not necessarily impacting your effectiveness, and you argue with logical fallacy. Good job dude.

Whoa whoa whoa.

Dooku was holding back on Anakin, who was physically stronger than him anyway. Qui-Gon was not the master swordsman, and was wearing out. Jedi do that, you know. Completely irrelevant.

Originally posted by Illustrious
So you're basically attempting to prove an argument by using exceptions to the rule, right? So if A = B, then B must = C... wrong.

Somehow, you dodge my entire point about being old not necessarily impacting your effectiveness, and you argue with logical fallacy. Good job dude.

No I aint. Look at the individuals. In a saber fight, I think Master Windu would school Lord Maul, but not in hand-to-hand.

Their likely fighting styles:
Lord Maul: monkey-style kung fu
Mace Windu: kick-boxing

I think Maul is better at his fighting style than Mace is his. And a well placed head-butt would sufficiantly incapacitate Master Windu.

A head butt from Maul wound end up with Mace grabbing Maul's head and snapping his neck.

It is irrelevant, because Dooku and Anakin did not fist-fight. Dooku wasn't trying to kill Skywalker either. Maul was a better swordsman than Qui-Gon, in that case, experience is moot.

One head butt, spikes or not, will not subdue any Jedi. Jango Fett was wearing a metal helmet and Obi-Wan didn't go down at the first knock. Mace would shrug it off.

We have seen nothing to provide that Maul could do anyting spectacular when it came to martial arts. That, and Mace Windu was still more powerful than Maul. Monkey-style kung fu? I haven't seen it.

First off - Clone Wars animated series exaggerated a lot. I wouldn't go by it, let's stick to movies and maybe even movie novels.

Mace was strong....yes, not nearly as impressive with the lightsaber onscreen....so hand to hand would have to go to Maul....there'd force throws here and there but it would look a lot like when Obi was trying to fight Jango Fett, except Maul would be spin kicking and flipping too fast for Mace to keep up. And we don't even know the extent of Maul's dark force power, unforunately it didn't go in depth. But I have a theory - if Maul did exist and was trained in the dark arts since childhood....this is a guy that lives and breathes the darkside, training on his own everyday pushing himself to the boundaries of ability....he would have been working on all his dark powers to his knowledge (earthquake, lightening, rage, etc.) albeit not very controlled - powerful.

The Sith love to hide their cards and then all of a sudden - wham pull out their goods and clean house (like how all the Sith secretly do thing behind their master's backs and then kill them)

I hate it when people want to get rid of Clone Wars. That is just gay. GL made it. It is Star Wars. If you don't like it, to bad.

Originally posted by DarthVasallo
Maul would be spin kicking and flipping too fast for Mace to keep up.

Yeah, that's pretty much how would it go. Mace would throw punches but get nothing but air.

This is the most idiotic thing I've seen on these forums in a while. Mace can use Force Crush. What have we seen from Maul? A little Force Push. Mace destroyed DROIDS with his bare hands. When you think about it, you can jump and flip all you want. One Force Push and you're on your ass.

Mace:
Combat Veteran
Stronger Force
Can punch through steel

Maul:
Better acrobatics

That's accurate.

Originally posted by DarthVasallo
First off - Clone Wars animated series exaggerated a lot. I wouldn't go by it, let's stick to movies and maybe even movie novels.

It's EU material considered canon.

Mace was strong....yes, not nearly as impressive with the lightsaber onscreen....so hand to hand would have to go to Maul....there'd force throws here and there but it would look a lot like when Obi was trying to fight Jango Fett, except Maul would be spin kicking and flipping too fast for Mace to keep up.

This would more look like Obi-Wan fighting General Grievous force throwing that sore droid loser into 10 or 20 metres into the ceiling. Mace would throw Maul through the place like a puppet.

And we don't even know the extent of Maul's dark force power, unforunately it didn't go in depth. But I have a theory - if Maul did exist and was trained in the dark arts since childhood....this is a guy that lives and breathes the darkside, training on his own everyday pushing himself to the boundaries of ability....he would have been working on all his dark powers to his knowledge (earthquake, lightening, rage, etc.) albeit not very controlled - powerful.

Bah. In fact Maul is far inferior to Sidious in force powers. Maybe he simply lacked natural potential but we never saw him using lightning or anything else so cut it off he can't do it. Now Mace was able to defeat Sidious fair and square why Maul didn't even think of going against his master (keep in mind that overpowering your master is the fundament of the entire Sith philosophy and thereby it indicates how weak Maul was compared to Sidious).

The Sith love to hide their cards and then all of a sudden - wham pull out their goods and clean house (like how all the Sith secretly do thing behind their master's backs and then kill them)

Wooohooo...Maul has no cards to hide and Mace would simply destroy him no matter if this is a fistfight or a lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by DarthVasallo
First off - Clone Wars animated series exaggerated a lot. I wouldn't go by it, let's stick to movies and maybe even movie novels.

Mace was strong....yes, not nearly as impressive with the lightsaber onscreen....so hand to hand would have to go to Maul....there'd force throws here and there but it would look a lot like when Obi was trying to fight Jango Fett, except Maul would be spin kicking and flipping too fast for Mace to keep up. And we don't even know the extent of Maul's dark force power, unforunately it didn't go in depth. But I have a theory - if Maul did exist and was trained in the dark arts since childhood....this is a guy that lives and breathes the darkside, training on his own everyday pushing himself to the boundaries of ability....he would have been working on all his dark powers to his knowledge (earthquake, lightening, rage, etc.) albeit not very controlled - powerful.

The Sith love to hide their cards and then all of a sudden - wham pull out their goods and clean house (like how all the Sith secretly do thing behind their master's backs and then kill them)

How about the extent of Windu's iner dark powers..

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
It's EU material considered canon.

This would more look like Obi-Wan fighting General Grievous force throwing that sore droid loser into 10 or 20 metres into the ceiling. Mace would throw Maul through the place like a puppet.

Bah. In fact Maul is [b]far inferior to Sidious in force powers. Maybe he simply lacked natural potential but we never saw him using lightning or anything else so cut it off he can't do it. Now Mace was able to defeat Sidious fair and square why Maul didn't even think of going against his master (keep in mind that overpowering your master is the fundament of the entire Sith philosophy and thereby it indicates how weak Maul was compared to Sidious).

Wooohooo...Maul has no cards to hide and Mace would simply destroy him no matter if this is a fistfight or a lightsaber duel. [/B]

yeh, and what does maul have to hide? mace can see through the shroud of the darkside, i bet he could predict every move maul would make and exploit it to his advantage.

Originally posted by Nai Fohl
Now Mace was able to defeat Sidious fair and square why Maul didn't even think of going against his master (keep in mind that overpowering your master is the fundament of the entire Sith philosophy and thereby it indicates how weak Maul was compared to Sidious).

I agree, Mace would beat Maul, but I think I heard that in some book Maul DID challenge Sidious, but was defeated, but Sidious let him live because he needed him for everything else to come into action.

So he challenged his master and was pwned in return. . . great. 😛

Originally posted by Illustrious
Wait wait, what evidence do you have for Maul being faster, better conditioned, and the better unarmed fighter?

On another note, although I did say Mace would win E.U. is considered official in this section since this is an E.U. section. With that being said Maul did fight Sidious in E.U. and nearly won. And by TPM he'd have gotten stronger, right? Right. Not saying he was ever stronger than Sidious or even stronger than Mace but he isn't just some weak dope.

I thought most Jedi were taught Teräs Käsi? 😕