Originally posted by darthsith19
Well, if you watch the duel of fates and then Mace vs. Sidious you will see who is faster.
Visual assumption. He was more acrobatic, but as far as pure speed goes... hardly. That's like saying I saw Mace faster in the clone wars.
He kicked Sidious's saber out of his bare hands because Sidious let him. it's as simple as that.
Not this debate again. The official site notes he won fair and square, the movie showed him putting Sidious on his ass. Period.
As for Teräs Käsi, yes, some Jedi do use it, hwoever, most don't. Could you please tell me where heard Mace uses it, too? I don't know where Maul nearly won, I read on the net it happened in some E.U. book (don't know which one, sorry). I never said Maul could beat Sidious, just saying he's a lot stronger than some of you think. Mace > Sidious > Maul, huh? Well, for one Mace beat Sidious when they were using sabers, there's no way he'd win if saber's weren't involved. For another thing Sidious let Mace win. And for a third thing I already said Mace would beat Maul in unarmed combat.
Wild assumption. Mace can't beat Sidious without a lightsaber, where was this?
It's best you prove up, instead of saying "I saw Maul faster" or that "Sidious may have possibly faked it, but it works in my argument so I'll say he did."
Originally posted by darthsith19
Well, if you watch the duel of fates and then Mace vs. Sidious you will see who is faster.
I only see that Sidious is jumping around where Mace isn't because it's not part of his style. If you would read Shatterpoint or watch the Clone War Series you would know who is faster.
He kicked Sidious's saber out of his bare hands because Sidious let him. it's as simple as that.
That's right away stupid. If you watch the movie again, Sidious is surprised and shocked that Mace managed to do that. And for another time: Sidious didn't fake the fight - he LOST it. Listen to GL when he says something.
As for Teräs Käsi, yes, some Jedi do use it, hwoever, most don't. Could you please tell me where heard Mace uses it, too?
Well...no...actually I can't but most likely it was in Shadow Hunter (that many Jedi actually trained it) or in some interview about the Clone Wars Series. I can't remember. Not that it would hardly matter if Mace uses it or not.
Well, for one Mace beat Sidious when they were using sabers, there's no way he'd win if saber's weren't involved. For another thing Sidious let Mace win. And for a third thing I already said Mace would beat Maul in unarmed combat.
a) Who was talking about a non-saber-fight ?
b) No Sidious didn't let Mace win - Sidious was beaten. That's what Lucas said about the fight so I'm not willing to discuss that point.
c) Why are you still arguing here if you have already admitted that Mace would win ?
Originally posted by Nai Fohl
I only see that Sidious is jumping around where Mace isn't because it's not part of his style. If you would read Shatterpoint or watch the Clone War Series you would [b]know who is faster.That's right away stupid. If you watch the movie again, Sidious is surprised and shocked that Mace managed to do that. And for another time: Sidious didn't fake the fight - he LOST it. Listen to GL when he says something. [/B]
You're absolutely right, as far as foot-work is concerned, Mace appeared to be very rigid, cuz it aint part of his style.
Gotta point there too...he rules with a saber and slid that kick in there perfectly. But in hand-to-hand Mace/Maul, I think it's pretty debatable. It's a fact that humans are pretty weak as far as strength is concerned, humans also lack claws and sharp teeth. I don't know about Zabrak strength, but they got those horns, and according to the novels they are very tolerant of physical pain.
Visual assumption. He was more acrobatic, but as far as pure speed goes... hardly. That's like saying I saw Mace faster in the clone wars.
Visual assumption. He was more acrobatic, but as far as pure speed goes... hardly. That's like saying I saw Mace faster in the clone wars.
It's best you prove up, instead of saying "I saw Maul faster" or that "Sidious may have possibly faked it, but it works in my argument so I'll say he did."
That's right away stupid. If you watch the movie again, Sidious is surprised and shocked that Mace managed to do that. And for another time: Sidious didn't fake the fight - he LOST it. Listen to GL when he says something.
a) Who was talking about a non-saber-fight ?
c) Why are you still arguing here if you have already admitted that Mace would win ?
Originally posted by Darth Faunus
And you seem to be forgetting that the Force is available for access in this battle.
True that, and I think that they would just go back and forth with their Force powers like a tennis match and it would turn into one big stalemate just like Yoda and Dooku at the end of AOTC. So it would eventually come down to a scrap.
Originally posted by darthsith19
True, perhaps Mace is faster.
He is fasters because he's stronger with the force than Maul...
The databank has some mistakes. This debate will not truely be closed until GL tells who truely won in the ROTS DVD.I already had a long-ass debate with Sorgo about this and don't feel like having it again. We will find out when the DVD comes out.
What did GL say regarding the Sidious vs. Mace duel?
That's what this thread is about, man.
b) No Sidious didn't let Mace win - Sidious was beaten. That's what Lucas said about the fight so I'm not willing to discuss that point.
When did he say this?
For your information and because I'm really tired of that "Sidious faked it"- crap. Lucas said on multiple occassions that Anakin was the deceiding factor in that fight. So if you want the best possible interpretation in Sidious favor of that statement this would be that Sidious and Mace weren't able to kill the eachother.
Now if you watch the movie. Mace was clearly kicking Sidious ass:
1) When they lock sabers at the beginning of the duel Windu is pressing Sidious down - he's superior there
2) In the fight you have Sidious going down on his knees once - something that no swordfighter would ever do unless he's forced to do so - again a sign of Mace superiority
3) Losing his lightsaber was not planned by Sidious and the fact that Mace managed to kick it out of Sidious hands again shows him as superior fighter
4) When Sidious was on the ground Mace gave Anakin a sign to stay away from the fight - obviously he didn't need him
5) Even when Sidious starts with force lightning Mace didn't ask Anakin for help so he's still on par / superior to Sidious.
And why the hell should Sidious fake the fight ? Anakin had no other options than joining Sidious because he needed him (or thought he needed him).
You guys were arguing about what i said about Maul's speed and energy and stuff.
Yes. Because the things you said were simply wrong. Maul isn't that fast and may I remind you: He's using the force to be faster now if you don't allow them to use the force, Mace would still kick Maul's ass because he can place 6 or more hits per second on an opponent, has an unbelieveable physical strength ("This isn't my bone-crushing grip. This my don't-do-something-stupid grip"😉 and he runs around breaking noses and jaws with slamming his head against them. So he's quite a badass and I don't see Maul having a chance against him.
Lucas said on multiple occassions that Anakin was the deceiding factor in that fight. So if you want the best possible interpretation in Sidious favor of that statement this would be that Sidious and Mace weren't able to kill the eachother.
And why the hell should Sidious fake the fight ? Anakin had no other options than joining Sidious because he needed him (or thought he needed him).
Mace would still kick Maul's ass because he can place 6 or more hits per second on an opponent, has an unbelieveable physical strength ("This isn't my bone-crushing grip. This my don't-do-something-stupid grip"😉 and he runs around breaking noses and jaws with slamming his head against them. So he's quite a badass and I don't see Maul having a chance against him.
P.S. If you wish to continue debating the Sidious vs. Mace duel we sjould do it in an approperitte thread. I'm looking for one in the episode 3 section. Any idea why they took away the search thingy?
The hell with it, I made a new thread
Originally posted by darthsith19
Yes, he was the deciding factor; whichever side he chose to take would win. That certainly doesn';t mean if he hadn't joined Palpatine then Palpatine would lose. GL also said if you had asked him if Palpatine threw the fight on purpose during the original shooting of that scene he would have definately said yes, but now he's not sure.
1) Because Sidious lets him
2) No =, Sidious let Mace push him down because he knew Anakin was coming
3) No, Sidious let Mace kick his saber out the window. If you havn't noticed, he fights better without a saber (remember the Yoda duel?).
4) No, obviously he didn't want Anakin to get involved because Anakin might screw things up. And he was right. Anyway, he didn't know Palpatine threw the fight, he thought he won fair and square
5) Heloding back the lightning do you really think he wouldn't be greateful for help? He didn't ask Anakin for help because he hated the boy, didn't trust him. And he was right not to trust him
yes!!! 😱 😄 😄
Originally posted by DiamondBullets
True that, and I think that they would just go back and forth with their Force powers like a tennis match and it would turn into one big stalemate just like Yoda and Dooku at the end of AOTC. So it would eventually come down to a scrap.
Maul stalemating Mace Windu? 😆
Originally posted by darthsith19
Yes, he was the deciding factor; whichever side he chose to take would win. That certainly doesn';t mean if he hadn't joined Palpatine then Palpatine would lose.
That is exactly what it means. Without Anakin Sidious won't have won the fight. Keeping the fact in mind that he was on his ass, having no weapon and wasn't able to stop Mace with force powers I think he would have lost.
GL also said if you had asked him if Palpatine threw the fight on purpose during the original shooting of that scene he would have definately said yes, but now he's not sure.
Nope. In fact he wanted Windu to die but Samuel L. Jackson wanted to look like a badass. Lucas original idea would have been Sidious throwing the fight but that wasn't what Sidious DID in the end.
1) Because Sidious lets him
Why should he risk getting his face toasted. Or do you want to argue that Mace is physically superior to Sidious ?
2) No =, Sidious let Mace push him down because he knew Anakin was coming
Sidious was on his knees before Anakin was even close. Watch the fight again and you will see what I mean. This had nothing to do with "throwing the fight".
3) No, Sidious let Mace kick his saber out the window. If you havn't noticed, he fights better without a saber (remember the Yoda duel?).
Do YOU remember the Yoda duel ? He was losing and got lucky. He won't lose his lightsaber on purpose.
4) No, obviously he didn't want Anakin to get involved because Anakin might screw things up. And he was right. Anyway, he didn't know Palpatine threw the fight, he thought he won fair and square
He did won fair and square. There is no use to discuss on FACTS.
5) Heloding back the lightning do you really think he wouldn't be greateful for help? He didn't ask Anakin for help because he hated the boy, didn't trust him. And he was right not to trust him
Windu was able to hold back the lightning. So - everything Sidious could do was not enough to defeat Mace. I hope you got it now...
He fakes it so Anakin would join him. Anakin had a choice, and he wasn't sure which one to pick. Choice when he was forced to. If that scene hadn't taken place by the time he made a discission Padme would have already had the twins and he would have realised his vision was false because she would have died.
Anakin had no choice. His way to the dark side had started in TPM at least in AOTC with slaying the Tusken. That decission was just the final step and he would have done the same with Mace Windu lying dead on the ground and Sidious saying: "You can arrest me but than I can't help you saving your wife." Boing. Again Anakin would have joined the dark side. At this point he hadn't a choice anymore.
But Mace is also using the Force to enhance him abilities.
In the situations I talked about he wasn't using the force. That results in: No force involved = Mace wins; force involved = Mace also wins.