Originally posted by B dot Rob
Your basing careers on who's the current better player.
hell no, t-mac was always better than gp. gp was a great player, but compared to t-mac? just compare their careers season by season (as in, rookie year, sophomore year, etc.) and you'll see that t-mac was better.
yeah, and i said i'd take ray allen RIGHT NOW, because he is healthy and t-mac is injured. so, obviously ray is playing at a higher level NOW. but i gaurantee t-mac will come back soon and pass ray, once he gets healthy. and this isnt "who's playing better NOW, is it?" it's "who's a better player overall" and when you compare their career stats, t-mac's is way better, so that's why t-mac is a better player.
my god, a 2 year old could understand this faster than you.
Originally posted by RecSpecs110
hell no, t-mac was always better than gp. gp was a great player, but compared to t-mac? just compare their careers season by season (as in, rookie year, sophomore year, etc.) and you'll see that t-mac was better.
You compare T-Mac's career to Steve Nash season by season and you'll see that T-Mac's better. Stats aren't the tell all signal, I mean T-Mac's efficiency rank is higher then Michael effing Jordan. For most of his career GP was pretty much the best point in the league (whereas T-Mac has never been the best anything outside of his what 1 scoring title). He was able to put up #'s on the offensive tip while maintaining his legendary D on the other side of the ball, whereas T-Mac has had to sacrifice his defense to put up offense.
yeah, and i said i'd take ray allen RIGHT NOW, because he is healthy and t-mac is injured. so, obviously ray is playing at a higher level NOW. but i gaurantee t-mac will come back soon and pass ray, once he gets healthy. and this isnt "who's playing better NOW, is it?" it's "who's a better player overall" and when you compare their career stats, t-mac's is way better, so that's why t-mac is a better player.
So should we start mentioning the like of Zo and Webber when we start talking top 10 players? They have had top 10-like careers (well Zo when healthy had one). Wait Shaq MUST be the undisputable #1, his career > everyone's season by season.
my god, a 2 year old could understand this faster than you.
And a aborted fetus could do a better job getting a point across then whatever fluff you are posting at the moment......
Originally posted by B dot Rob
You compare T-Mac's career to Steve Nash season by season and you'll see that T-Mac's better. Stats aren't the tell all signal, I mean T-Mac's efficiency rank is higher then Michael effing Jordan. For most of his career GP was pretty much the best point in the league (whereas T-Mac has never been the best anything outside of his what 1 scoring title). He was able to put up #'s on the offensive tip while maintaining his legendary D on the other side of the ball, whereas T-Mac has had to sacrifice his defense to put up offense.So should we start mentioning the like of Zo and Webber when we start talking top 10 players? They have had top 10-like careers (well Zo when healthy had one). Wait Shaq MUST be the undisputable #1, his career > everyone's season by season.
And a aborted fetus could do a better job getting a point across then whatever fluff you are posting at the moment......
🤣 ok, (laugh)..., sorry, i cant contain my laughter. The most articulate person in the world wouldnt be able to get a point inside your damn head. Heck, god himself couldnt convince a person with the logic you have. Its like trying to educate a squirrel, oh yeah thats right, you cant communicate with them. 😆 😆 😆
about steve nash, considering he has 2 mvp's under his belt, and has lifted the sun's organization to another level himself, i think that those accomplishments would compensate for the stats. On the flip side, gary payton has never been nearly as spectacular as steve nash is right now, and his stats have always been lower than t-mac's. so in the end, t-mac is better than gp. and t-mac sacrificing his defense? he's a terrific defender, thank you very much.
webber and zo are totally irrelevant, because uhhh...there stats are terrible. t-mac on the other hand averaged a solid 24.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, and 4.8 apg, EVEN with his injury. Now, that says something. Webber and Zo are currently not injured, and what, their stats are abysmal. lol @ you for even mentioning them.
And about shaq, people dont list him #1, because we all give the edge to guards and fowards, because they're smaller and still they achieve. shaq, on the other hand is a 360 pound monster that nobody can stop. if not for his size and strength, he wouldnt have made it to the nba.
Originally posted by RecSpecs110
🤣 ok, (laugh)..., sorry, i cant contain my laughter. The most articulate person in the world wouldnt be able to get a point inside your damn head. Heck, god himself couldnt convince a person with the logic you have. Its like trying to educate a squirrel, oh yeah thats right, you cant communicate with them. 😆 😆 😆about steve nash, considering he has 2 mvp's under his belt, and has lifted the sun's organization to another level himself, i think that those accomplishments would compensate for the stats. On the flip side, gary payton has never been nearly as spectacular as steve nash is right now, and his stats have always been lower than t-mac's. so in the end, t-mac is better than gp. and t-mac sacrificing his defense? he's a terrific defender, thank you very much.
webber and zo are totally irrelevant, because uhhh...there stats are terrible. t-mac on the other hand averaged a solid 24.4 ppg, 6.5 rpg, and 4.8 apg, EVEN with his injury. Now, that says something. Webber and Zo are currently not injured, and what, their stats are abysmal. lol @ you for even mentioning them.
And about shaq, people dont list him #1, because we all give the edge to guards and fowards, because they're smaller and still they achieve. shaq, on the other hand is a 360 pound monster that nobody can stop. if not for his size and strength, he wouldnt have made it to the nba.
1.) GP in his prime pretty much shits on Steve Nash in everything but jump shooting and passing. He was a much better scorer and a slightly weaker passer while maintaining his top tier defense. If it wasn't for him having his best years at about the same time Shaq/KG/TD were he'd probably have a MVP or two under his belt.
2.) What the **** are you smoking C-Webb put up better stats then Shaq
WOMG
C-Webb > Shaq.
3.) You can pretty much use that argument with pretty much every 2,3,4,5 to grace the league.
Originally posted by RecSpecs110
yeah, but if you were to make a top 10 list, would you put payton in and take out t-mac? 😕
Not currently (because Payton has had decreased SO much), I'm talking I would take GP in his prime over T-Mac in his.
Also, I think you take stats TOO seriously. Stats say a lot, don't get me wrong, but they aren't the whole picture. Zo is irrelevant because his stats are weak? He can single handedly scare an opposing team into changing their offense. If he can impact a game by doing something such as this, then he is in no way irrelevant. Same with Shaq now days. His 'all so important stats' are down but that does not mean Shaq is not a large influence on any game he is in. Several others have equal stats to Shaq, but do not influence offense and defense of both teams the way Shaq does.
B dot, are you actually saying Webber is better than Shaq? In the name of all that are smarter than rocks I hope you are not serious.
Originally posted by B dot Rob
1.) GP in his prime pretty much shits on Steve Nash in everything but jump shooting and passing. He was a much better scorer and a slightly weaker passer while maintaining his top tier defense. If it wasn't for him having his best years at about the same time Shaq/KG/TD were he'd probably have a MVP or two under his belt.C-Webb > Shaq.
😆 😆 😆 💃 💃 💃 Alright, now (laugh) OK, now, i've heard it all. C-webb>Shaq. Wow...you dont have to be funny in order to be a comedian. just go up to a bunch of NBA fans and say that outloud, so that everybody can hear. (ow, my cheeks are hurting from laughter)
GP is better than Nash in everything but shooting and passing. hmmm...is that not the 2 main things a point guard needs to excel at. It's almost like this...Center A shits on Center B in everything but rebounding and post play. GP a much better scorer?????? What are you kidding me? he may have averaged more points, but nash has a better career FG %, 3 point FG %, AND FT %. Nash is a hell of a better scorer. he just passes more than he scores. and in terms of passing, nash>>>>>>payton. i'll give payton defense, but nash is still a better PG, considering the main roles of a PG is shotting efficiency, assists, and less turnovers, which also btw, nash averaged less turnovers.
"If it wasn't for him having his best years at about the same time Shaq/KG/TD were he'd probably have a MVP or two under his belt."
Wow, thats gotta be the lamest excuse i've ever heard. GP was never even CONSIDERED mvp material. And you saying Nash has no competition? Cough...kobe, lebron, iverson, still garnett, dirk, and dwyane...Cough
Originally posted by B dot Rob
Yeah because it's not current that matters but careers🙄
ok, then shareef abdur-rahim should be up there, because what...it's only the CAREER that matters, oh, i get it. So, you're saying lebron and wade shouldn't be up there because everything spectacular they have done is too current for your ass. ok. so, now you give the tremendous edge to veterans, whereas in the other thread, the older=the worse, ok, gotcha. and if karl malone was still in the league today averaging 3 points and 3 rebounds, then he should still be in the top 10, because its only his CAREER that matters, huh. and shaq should definately be #1, doesnt matter how bad he plays.
your logic is like a pretzel, you know that?
To Myth: I don't take stats too seriously. I know that mourning does a lot of intangible things that don't show up on the stat sheet. but to mention his name among top 10 players is rediculous. if he wasnt such a sissy to huddle behind wade and shaq, and eventually win a title that he didnt deserve, then maybe i would give the jackass some respect. but the way he handles tender situations and ditches people so easily scares me. so, since i despise mourning, when people mention his name in a TOP 10 list, i just want to use stats (rightfully) and prove that the coward is nowhere near the top 10.
I don't see what is so surprising. I'm not saying T-Mac is bad, but lets compare careers:
Payton:
2 time all-nba
4 time 2nd team
1 time 3rd team
9 consecutive 1st team all-defensive
DPOY
Led in steals 1 year
Led in assists 1 year
Best Playoffs: Led Seattle to Finals in 96 losing to no other but the Bulls (I won't count this years Heat victory)
Worst team record: 40-42 (and that was the year he was traded by the deadline)
McGrady:
2 time All NBA
2 time 2nd team
1 time 3rd
2 time scoring champ
Most Improved Player (not really important for this discussion, but thought I would list it to be fair to T-Mac)
Best Playoffs: 1st round was furthest
Worst team record: 21-61
The only thing McGrady truly has on Payton is scoring. However, scoring is not really a downside of Paytons seeing as he himself has averaged over 24 points for a season. McGrady is NOWHERE near Payton on the defensive end. Also, when comparing worst team records, I know T-Mac had a miserable team with the Magic in 03-04, but don't forget that Payton also was the sole leader of the Sonics his last few years there.
And you saying Nash has no competition? Cough...kobe, lebron, iverson, still garnett, dirk, and dwyane...Cough
We all know Kobe should have won that MVP, F*ckin ridiculous how much hes hated on, and how a guys popularity plays into whether he gets MVP or not. AND the fact that he finished...5? only backs my claim up.