Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not at all. 🙂 Different comics have different treatments applied to them. 🙂 What doesnt change from title to title are the roles of the higher beings. 🙂 Good try mate. Its just how it is. 😱
not really a try, as usual you make it personal 😖igh:, do you notice how much doubt in your theories are being exhibitied by members at the moment GS.
Whos King Kam GS? another member like you or I and just as respected.
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
not really a try, as usual you make it personal 😖igh:, do you notice how much doubt in your theories are being exhibitied by members at the moment GS.Whos King Kam GS? another member like you or I and just as respected.
People doubt the application of Kaballah which is fair enough. 🙂
As you can see from the two hierarchy threads doing the rounds phoenix has certainly risen in status and thats just grand. 🙂 You misunderstand my goals. Not everyones going to believe every word i say. I wouldnt want that mate. How boring would this place be then 😱
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
People doubt the application of Kaballah which is fair enough. 🙂As you can see from the two hierarchy threads doing the rounds phoenix has certainly risen in status and thats just grand. 🙂 You misunderstand my goals. Not everyones going to believe every word i say. I wouldnt want that mate. How boring would this place be then 😱
The last person to post didn't have Phoenix in it 🙂 So...... perhaps the Phoenix peak is over 🙂 just a thought 🙂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
I guess the reason your reply has taken so long is you have gone to check it out 😄Cya later 🙂
Not at all mate. I was reading your contributions on the Jean Grey thread. 🙂 Noooo you're not bitter at all Whirly are you. 🙂
Once again your campaign is a flop. 🙁
Carry on though. You're ever so amusing. 😱 😂
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
🙂 Ohh i detect a hint of bitterness 🙁Dont worry about it mate it was a good attempt. It just required a better man 🙂 😱 😂
more personal comments they are not helping your "case"
The tide has turned, you can fool some people some of the time.
Your theories are all supposition and people realise that.
You post in response to try and move people on from things like Leos post 🙂
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
more personal comments they are not helping your "case"The tide has turned, you can fool some people some of the time.
Your theories are all supposition and people realise that.
You post in response to try and move people on from things like Leos post 🙂
Not in the slightest mate. 🙂
The tide has turned because people doubt the Kaballah application? 😕 Yet all the veterans give phoenix a whole lot more cred then they ever used to. Hmmmm 😕 . Another flop methinks 😱 😂
This is no competition mate.
Its just a debate, just a bit of fun. Be happy for me. Ive got people giving phoenix more cred than they ever used to so ive succeeded 🙂
Thats the case with virtually everyone. Most people dont agree with all of what i say and thats cool. In fact its the best situation. It allows for more fun debates. Kind of like this one. 😱
I replied to Leonidas post. Ive set the record straight. I am content. 🙂
Anyway this is Sentrys thread on Darkseid lets not spoil it by turning this into yet another phoenix thread.
I mean people have heard it all before and have made their minds up. Im just glad that while my every word isnt taken as the gospel truth for the majority of people the characters risen in their expectations. 😄
Thats really cool 🙂
Lets get back to the gauntlet 🙂 😄
"On to the DC Odin feat that is being discussed here:
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/...man026152ed.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/...man026164hk.jpg
"Both" Odin have crazy feats.
Now I dont seem to be able to see the scans in the Darkseid thread. What are the high end feats of DC Zeus? He never strike me as someone in that level of power.
Both on its own and with assistance if need be."
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Anyway this is Sentrys thread on Darkseid lets not spoil it by turning this into yet another phoenix thread.I mean people have heard it all before and have made their minds up. Im just glad that while my every word isnt taken as the gospel truth for the majority of people the characters risen in their expectations. 😄
Thats really cool 🙂
Lets get back to the gauntlet 🙂 😄
It would have been nice if you had not brought Phoenix to this thread - I agree
No again you have no statistics to indicate a majority, again more supposition.
🙂 sad for you really
<<Phoenix in its conception and now in its treatment in current continuity is presented in terms of Kaballah. There is no escaping that fact. All the ideas behind it its role and function, all stem from Kaballah. However this Kaballah treatment is reserved only for Phoenix. Just like Thors comics always deal with life and role in terms of Norse mythology. Its used to show phoenixs place in the scheme of things. Thats all. By talking about Kaballah and highlighting to people who may or may not be clued up just what the references mean and what they are conveying about a character, i am not placing a higher importance on this set of principles over any other. I never once gave it doctrine status.>>
i think you may have misinterpretted my post. i'm not saying some writer DIDN'T use kabbalistic terminolgy and symbolism when he/she was creating/defining the phoenix. however, that's where things end. the character may indeed be based on these things, but because the translation is incomplete (ie the rest of marvel does not follow along) the comparison can at best be considered 'moderately interesting' to some who can see certain of the similarities. BUT, marvel's phoenix is defined by its role in the marvel universe, not by some 'supposed' role in kabbalah. even if it's true claremont used kakbbalah references when creating pf, because some comparisons might exist, does not mean these comparisons can be extended -- in particular to lt and the rest of marvel's cosmology. i believe in that regard whirly is very much correct when he claims you are extending notions (through supposition and interpretation) which are incomplete at best.
<<Phoenix just happens to be represented in terms of Kaballah, therefore i will always refer to Kaballah when im debating on the character. Like it or lump it.>>
and
<<However this Kaballah treatment is reserved only for Phoenix.>>
are contradictory phrases. if only that one character (phoenix) is presented in terms of kabbalah, what's the point of using it in a debate where no other character is presented in a similar light? and what's the significance/point of the similarity to kabbalah (or of bringing it up) if none of the other characters are presented in a similar light? when comparing marvel characters, you need to stick to marvel comics, not kabbalah because even where they are similar they are VERY different.
BUT, that there ARE certain similarities to kabbalah i will agree. as i said though, more important than these are the way pf is defined in the MARVEL universe. the similarities are little more than interesting sidenotes and because the comparisons are not complete, and none of the other characters follow them anyway, i just fail to see the significance of bringing kabbalah up, or explaining/comparing the character in those terms.
and sorry gang for getting off topic and drawing the rest of you into this thing.
war
Originally posted by leonidas
<<Phoenix in its conception and now in its treatment in current continuity is presented in terms of Kaballah. There is no escaping that fact. All the ideas behind it its role and function, all stem from Kaballah. However this Kaballah treatment is reserved only for Phoenix. Just like Thors comics always deal with life and role in terms of Norse mythology. Its used to show phoenixs place in the scheme of things. Thats all. By talking about Kaballah and highlighting to people who may or may not be clued up just what the references mean and what they are conveying about a character, i am not placing a higher importance on this set of principles over any other. I never once gave it doctrine status.>>i think you may have misinterpretted my post. i'm not saying some writer DIDN'T use kabbalistic terminolgy and symbolism when he/she was creating/defining the phoenix. however, that's where things end. the character may indeed be based on these things, but because the translation is incomplete (ie the rest of marvel does not follow along) the comparison can at best be considered 'moderately interesting' to some who can see certain of the similarities. BUT, marvel's phoenix is defined by its role in the marvel universe, not by some 'supposed' role in kabbalah. even if it's true claremont used kakbbalah references when creating pf, because some comparisons might exist, does not mean these comparisons can be extended -- in particular to lt and the rest of marvel's cosmology. i believe in that regard whirly is very much correct when he claims you are extending notions (through supposition and interpretation) which are incomplete at best.
<<Phoenix just happens to be represented in terms of Kaballah, therefore i will always refer to Kaballah when im debating on the character. Like it or lump it.>>
and
<<However this Kaballah treatment is reserved only for Phoenix.>>
are contradictory phrases. if only that one character (phoenix) is presented in terms of kabbalah, what's the point of using it in a debate where no other character is presented in a similar light? and what's the significance/point of the similarity to kabbalah (or of bringing it up) if none of the other characters are presented in a similar light? when comparing marvel characters, you need to stick to marvel comics, not kabbalah because even where they are similar they are VERY different.
BUT, that there ARE certain similarities to kabbalah i will agree. as i said though, more important than these are the way pf is defined in the MARVEL universe. the similarities are little more than interesting sidenotes and because the comparisons are not complete, and none of the other characters follow them anyway, i just fail to see the significance of bringing kabbalah up, or explaining/comparing the character in those terms.
and sorry gang for getting off topic and drawing the rest of you into this thing.
war
another awesome post and don't apologise for such a high degree of commonsense Leo 🙂
Originally posted by Draco69
In the late 80s/early 90s. Do you have an aversion to the respect thread or something. Does bite you everytime you try toclick the mouse? 😬
You not helping yourself. LOOK AND READ the respect thread. THEN argue.
Stop asking questions to which there already answers.
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Go back to page 6 where I've adressed this Draco. I read your respect thread already.
Yeah. Something that Odin has never done. DC Odin on the other hand has. Easily.That's an ENTIRE universe. Planets. Galaxies. Puppies and flowers. Etc.
Puppies and flowers? Scan please? And DC Odin did this before or after Crisis? Also from what I know, it's a pocket univesre.
Nice feat. Odin and Seth's fight shook the Multiverse...no no not a pocket multiverse.
Odin also fought and beat the Dark Gods. He beat them and killed, banished, and imprision their pantheon.
That's nice. So?So did DC Surtur.
Thunderbolt (Pre-Crisis) is from the 5th Dimension. He had the power to do ANYTHING he was ordered to. Thunderbolt was a force to be reckoned with. In one ridiculous issue he used a galaxy as friggin umbrella.
Also the imps have battled the likes of Satryne, Takion and even Spectre.
That's really nice Draco. Now was this fight Pre-Crisis or Post-Crisis?
And regarding Thunderbolt, he ain't the brightest of the bunch. Heck, the village idiot of the 5th Imps more like it. So much power in the hands of an imbecile - a force to be reckonned with indeed. Heck, Thor needed the wisdom of the Rune Stones to properly wield the Odin Force; Molecule Man needed practice and even Doom's acknowledgement (he could do almost anything with his molecule control) for him to realize and become as powerful as he was. So what if Thunderbolt is powerful, but it doesn't mean he'll do what his master intended for him to do.
So he was involved in that fight. That means what? Unless he was ordered to erase Surtur AND actually does it properly, otherwise he's just another powerful being standing around. It'd be like Lucifer being on the JSA, but doing next to nothing in a fight. How can you really gauge DC Surtur's power? If it was Bat-mite fighting Surtur - that'd be different.
As for the umbrella galaxy feat, sounds like one of his incompetant actions when his master meant otherwise. Powerful but did he do anything useful during the fight against Surtur?
http://www.toonopedia.com/jthundr1.htm
http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/archive/index.php/t-27854.html
http://www.blacksuperhero.com/exhibithtml/detail.cfm?id=85
And who is Satryne? Do you mean Stayne?
Thunderbolt is the village idiot of the 5th dimension. Don't bring feats of more competant Imps in to prop up Thunderbolt.
He can do what they can - doesn't mean he'll do it right.
You are joking right? Right? I have said again and again go to the Darkseid Respect Thread. If I have to say it one. more. time. 😬
Maybe you should look back on page 6.
GO. TO. RESPECT. THREAD.You're not helping yourself. [/B]
GO. TO. PAGE. 6.
You're not helping YOUR-self. 😉
Originally posted by Whirlysplatt
It would have been nice if you had not brought Phoenix to this thread - I agreeNo again you have no statistics to indicate a majority, again more supposition.
🙂 sad for you really
😕 Well actually i didnt:
Originally posted by kgkg
So GS have you proven that ( with a scan) that PF created the multiverse yet?
These days i tend not to, I just comment when she inevitably does come up. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidas
i think you may have misinterpretted my post. i'm not saying some writer DIDN'T use kabbalistic terminolgy and symbolism when he/she was creating/defining the phoenix. however, that's where things end. the character may indeed be based on these things, but because the translation is incomplete (ie the rest of marvel does not follow along) the comparison can at best be considered 'moderately interesting' to some who can see certain of the similarities. BUT, marvel's phoenix is defined by its role in the marvel universe, not by some 'supposed' role in kabbalah. even if it's true claremont used kakbbalah references when creating pf, because some comparisons might exist, does not mean these comparisons can be extended -- in particular to lt and the rest of marvel's cosmology. i believe in that regard whirly is very much correct when he claims you are extending notions (through supposition and interpretation) which are incomplete at best.
I beg to differ Leo. In Phoenix's presentation in comics in both its conception and in current continuity its role in the marvel multiverse is defined via Kaballah terms and parallels, therefore there is nothing wrong with relating to people with no knowledge on the subject just what these terms mean, as knowing them is the key to truly understanding the character. Thats the treatment thats been applied to phoenix character and theres no changing that. You're very right in saying that Kaballah cant be applied to the rest of the Marvel cosmology. Im just puzzled as to where you think ive done this. Ive commented on how similar other high level beings are to entities defined in Kaballah principles. LT for example. But i do not use Kaballah to define his place in marvel as that is not the treatment given to him by the writers, so it doesnt apply. If you can find examples where ive defined the entire marvel cosmology via Kaballah anywhere on these phoenix related threads currently doing the rounds then i challenge you to quote me. In such events i'll happily clarify my stance. As it stands Phoenixs role in Marvel is defined and explained via Kaballah terminology therefore theres absolutely nothing wrong with explaining or referring to these terms in debate.
Originally posted by leonidas
<<Phoenix just happens to be represented in terms of Kaballah, therefore i will always refer to Kaballah when im debating on the character. Like it or lump it.>>and
<<However this Kaballah treatment is reserved only for Phoenix.>>
are contradictory phrases. if only that one character (phoenix) is presented in terms of kabbalah, what's the point of using it in a debate where no other character is presented in a similar light? and what's the significance/point of the similarity to kabbalah (or of bringing it up) if none of the other characters are presented in a similar light? when comparing marvel characters, you need to stick to marvel comics, not kabbalah because even where they are similar they are VERY different.
Those statements are not contradictory in the slightest Leonidas. The Phoenix characters role in Marvel is explained via Kaballah terminology. It may be the only character to be defined in those terms but that doesnt mean page after page of terminology itself referring to events on panel should be ignored just because its kaballah, which few other characters are defined by. Thats basically what you're condoning and thats ridiculous. I only ever explain the terms used in comics. Its just like Whirly explaining the ins and outs of a scientific term featured in a comic which hes happily done many a time. I know everyone remembers the Infinity Vs Gog debate for example.
Originally posted by leonidas
BUT, that there ARE certain similarities to kabbalah i will agree. as i said though, more important than these are the way pf is defined in the MARVEL universe. the similarities are little more than interesting sidenotes and because the comparisons are not complete, and none of the other characters follow them anyway, i just fail to see the significance of bringing kabbalah up, or explaining/comparing the character in those terms.
Phoenix in all of its showings in current continuity has its role in Marvel defined in terms of Kaballah terminology. One need only refer to its appearrances in New Xmen and Endsong to see this. If that is the only way phoenix and its actions are explained on panel then in debate referring to and explaining those terms to those ignorant of the principles is of the utmost importance.
Thank you for contribution though Leonidas. As always a pleasure.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Again you are dismissing evidence you have yet to read Whirly. 🙄You dont have the faintest idea what youre talking about. Objectivity always helps in debates.
The abstracts intervened before Stranger could make use of Jeans connection with the power. However it was made clear that phoenix cyclically brings about the end of the abstracts and LT anyway. Stranger just wanted to do it on his timetable. He was going to speed up the process with the power and use it to protect himself during the end of creation. (Like Phoenix did for Galan as per current continuity) That would allow him to emerge as the supreme being.
Just thought id repost this Whirly. Again no response to a post that proves you wrong. 😱
