Originally posted by Beyonder
Um, when was this? News to me.He's said to have killed pantheons and absorbed it. When did he kill Odin?
In the late 80s/early 90s. Do you have an aversion to the respect thread or something. Does bite you everytime you try to click the mouse? 😬
You not helping yourself. LOOK AND READ the respect thread. THEN argue.
Stop asking questions to which there already answers.
Originally posted by Beyonder
'kay, is DC Odin = Marvel Odin? DC Zeus = Marvel Odin? Or even DC Surtur for that matter?What makes you automatically assume that Marvel's Odin is more powerful?
Oh because you didn't bother to read about DC Odin or anyother DC cosmic beings.
[QUOTE=5015047]Originally posted by Beyonder
[B] DC Odin created a "pocket universe"
Yeah. Something that Odin has never done. DC Odin on the other hand has. Easily.
That's an ENTIRE universe. Planets. Galaxies. Puppies and flowers. Etc.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Marvel Odin's fight with Seth sent shock waves shaking the multiverse. It was having affects on stars and galaxies.
That's nice. So?
Originally posted by Beyonder
Marvel Surtur destroyed a galaxy to forge his sword. Did DC Surtur show anything like that? And please, Thunderbolt is skyfather level? Where is this coming from?
So did DC Surtur.
Thunderbolt (Pre-Crisis) is from the 5th Dimension. He had the power to do ANYTHING he was ordered to. Thunderbolt was a force to be reckoned with. In one ridiculous issue he used a galaxy as friggin umbrella.
Also the imps have battled the likes of Satryne, Takion and even Spectre.
Originally posted by Beyonder
Please where are you getting this from? Your using a cross over as reference first off.
You are joking right? Right? I have said again and again go to the Darkseid Respect Thread. If I have to say it one. more. time. 😬
Originally posted by Beyonder
Also, Odin knocked out Surfer with a gesture.
Again so?
Here's what bugs me. "Marvel Odin defeated Seth! DC Odin never did that!"
Assumptions, assumptions. Biased ones at that.
GO. TO. RESPECT. THREAD.
You're not helping yourself.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Do you really think im that oblivious. 😉I was just being honest. 😄
Anyway back to ...
'I've only just started learning philosophy so you might be right. But the Demiuge described by Plato is similar to the Big Bang theory and similar to the universe creating explosion of the dying Michael . (Sorry about the unusually bad spelling ... lets just say I'm with Puff smoking the magic dragon.... not thats cool or anything. )'
Originally posted by yahman
Anyway back to ...'I've only just started learning philosophy so you might be right. But the Demiuge described by Plato is similar to the Big Bang theory and similar to the universe creating explosion of the dying Michael . (Sorry about the unusually bad spelling ... lets just say I'm with Puff smoking the magic dragon.... not thats cool or anything. )'
Dont worry about the spelling. I dont. 🙂
Read some Lucifer. If you give me your e-mail i can send you all the issues over a few weeks. Theres only 65 😂
After that read up on Plato and Gnosticism and then make up your own mind. This could be a fun debate in the future. 😄
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Dont worry about the spelling. I dont. 🙂Read some Lucifer. If you give me your e-mail i can send you all the issues over a few weeks. Theres only 65 😂
After that read up on Plato and Gnosticism and then make up your own mind. This could be a fun debate in the future. 😄
My E-Mail is buggered. I need a new account. I'll get one of my bitches in my hall. to set up a new one up 4 me. 🙂
hmm, ya know, ive been reading and reading this theory of yours for quite some time now, without really commenting. i suppose it's time. i'd be a lot more willing to follow along with your theories if:
1. there wasn't an obvious 'pick-and-choose' on your part. there may indeed be a couple similarities between marvel cosmology and kabbalah, but the similarities are FAR outweighed by the dis-similarities. there is no tree of life in marvel, no sephiroths, and many of the other key kabbahlistic principles (if such a mish-mash of esoteric thoughts, conjectures and theories can truly HAVE universal principles) are left out of your comparison. you choose from several different interpretations of kabbalah, something in itself that has changed and evolved for over 2000 years. it's not impossible to find similarities to kabbalah almost ANYWHERE, if one is willing to dig. some people actually claim it served in cracking the 'bible code'! the subject is SOOOO broad and has so many existent variations/branches, that it would be more surprising if ANY cosmology DIDN'T share similarities with parts of it. aspects of kabbalah have drifted into our cultural mindset and most don't even know what it is. someone earlier mentioned kabbalah/gnosticism -- the fact is the 2 DO share many similarities (not least of which is the esoteric nature of both). the idea of dualism that kabbalah inadvertently leads to can be traced directly to gnosticism. the notion of 'metatron as lt' is essentially a gnostic assertion. so now is the comparison you make to gnosticism, or kabbalah?
2. marvel hadn't also shown a propensity for delving into, exploring and using a host of OTHER mythologies. why should similarities to ONE doctrine, be viewed anymore significantly than marvel's treatment of the various other 'religions' (norse beliefs, greek beliefs, hindu, incan, mayan . . .) the fact that certain things in marvel's (for the moment) highest level of hierarchy share a couple similarities with kabbalah, really isn't any reason to attach any more importance to your purported view than i attach to marvel's interpretation of any of the other mythologies they have plumbed. in fact, it may even ben seen as being LESS significant -- BECAUSE they have used so many other 'religious' (for lack of a better term) sources in the past, it seems almost inevitable that they would eventually set their sights on a recently reviving doctrine like kabbalah. but a couple similarities does not a doctrine make.
3. there was any value at all in accepting this theory you have been postulating and restating over and over again. even if you are right, it only allows a further understanding of the characters involved until the next retcon! and not even that with confidence. or perhaps a new writer will simply create yet another 'ultimate being'.
you've done a great deal of theorizing on this subject, and frankly i'm not sure why (other than to show everyone that you're a reasonably intelligent guy). dig deep enough and you can find similarities or conspiracies everywhere. doesn't make the similarities or conspiracies real, OR relevent.
of course, it may simply be that one of the illuminati has infiltrated marvel's upper echelons. perhaps in the grand lodge, the illuminati grand master and the writer work together to seed comics with kabbalistic terminology that if deciphered correctly, will explain to everyone just why everyone hates wolverine so much and why the little bastard is considered to be so tough . . .
another meaing for keter is Gods Will aka The Source/TOAA in creation, The Presence is Gods Holy Presence aka The Holy Spirit, galacticstorm u urself must now agree with me about TOAA being The Source, they are the same, nobody knows Yahweh but through his aspects he works through, The Living Tribunals JOB is to make sure everything in the Marvel Multiverse is working correct, he makes sure Gods will is being done, and is the Guardian of it. The Living Tribunal has never talked to Yahweh but he has talked to TOAA"The Source", even though TOAA is above everything in the marvel/dc multiverses he is not literally above Yahweh, he is above everyone and everything.
This is how it should be:
Yahweh
The Presence/The Source/The Great Evil Beast
The Word/The Voice.
Lucifer Morningstar/Archangel Michael
The Spectre/The Living Tribunal/Archangel Gabriel/Metatron
The First of the Fallen
Originally posted by kevdude
another meaing for keter is Gods Will aka The Source/TOAA in creation, The Presence is Gods Holy Presence aka The Holy Spirit, galacticstorm u urself must now agree with me about TOAA being The Source, they are the same, nobody knows Yahweh but through his aspects he works through, The Living Tribunals JOB is to make sure everything in the Marvel Multiverse is working correct, he makes sure Gods will is being done, and is the Guardian of it. The Living Tribunal has never talked to Yahweh but he has talked to TOAA"The Source", even though TOAA is above everything in the marvel/dc multiverses he is not literally above Yahweh, he is above everyone and everything.This is how it should be:
Yahweh
The Presence/The Source/The Great Evil Beast
The Word/The Voice.
Lucifer Morningstar/Archangel Michael
The Spectre/The Living Tribunal/Archangel Gabriel/Metatron
The First of the Fallen
Good
Yahweh/TOAA (it has never been mentioned TOAA=The Source, TOAA=Yahweh in Marvel)
The Presence/The Source/The Great Evil Beast/Phoenix Force (Pheonix Force the same as The Presnece, the same meaning between Yawheh and The Presence as is between TOAA and Phoenix Force)
The Word/The Voice.
Lucifer Morningstar/Archangel Michael
The Spectre/The Living Tribunal/Archangel Gabriel/Metatron
The First of the Fallen
On to the DC Odin feat that is being discussed here:
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/5658/sandman026152ed.jpg
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/342/sandman026164hk.jpg
"Both" Odin have crazy feats.
Now I dont seem to be able to see the scans in the Darkseid thread. What are the high end feats of DC Zeus? He never strike me as someone in that level of power.
Both on its own and with assistance if need be.
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, ya know, ive been reading and reading this theory of yours for quite some time now, without really commenting. i suppose it's time. i'd be a lot more willing to follow along with your theories if:1. there wasn't an obvious 'pick-and-choose' on your part. there may indeed be a couple similarities between marvel cosmology and kabbalah, but the similarities are FAR outweighed by the dis-similarities. there is no tree of life in marvel, no sephiroths, and many of the other key kabbahlistic principles (if such a mish-mash of esoteric thoughts, conjectures and theories can truly HAVE universal principles) are left out of your comparison. you choose from several different interpretations of kabbalah, something in itself that has changed and evolved for over 2000 years. it's not impossible to find similarities to kabbalah almost ANYWHERE, if one is willing to dig. some people actually claim it served in cracking the 'bible code'! the subject is SOOOO broad and has so many existent variations/branches, that it would be more surprising if ANY cosmology DIDN'T share similarities with parts of it. aspects of kabbalah have drifted into our cultural mindset and most don't even know what it is. someone earlier mentioned kabbalah/gnosticism -- the fact is the 2 DO share many similarities (not least of which is the esoteric nature of both). the idea of dualism that kabbalah inadvertently leads to can be traced directly to gnosticism. the notion of 'metatron as lt' is essentially a gnostic assertion. so now is the comparison you make to gnosticism, or kabbalah?
2. marvel hadn't also shown a propensity for delving into, exploring and using a host of OTHER mythologies. why should similarities to ONE doctrine, be viewed anymore significantly than marvel's treatment of the various other 'religions' (norse beliefs, greek beliefs, hindu, incan, mayan . . .) the fact that certain things in marvel's (for the moment) highest level of hierarchy share a couple similarities with kabbalah, really isn't any reason to attach any more importance to your purported view than i attach to marvel's interpretation of any of the other mythologies they have plumbed. in fact, it may even ben seen as being LESS significant -- BECAUSE they have used so many other 'religious' (for lack of a better term) sources in the past, it seems almost inevitable that they would eventually set their sights on a recently reviving doctrine like kabbalah. but a couple similarities does not a doctrine make.
3. there was any value at all in accepting this theory you have been postulating and restating over and over again. even if you are right, it only allows a further understanding of the characters involved until the next retcon! and not even that with confidence. or perhaps a new writer will simply create yet another 'ultimate being'.
you've done a great deal of theorizing on this subject, and frankly i'm not sure why (other than to show everyone that you're a reasonably intelligent guy). dig deep enough and you can find similarities or conspiracies everywhere. doesn't make the similarities or conspiracies real, OR relevent.
Stunning post Leo 🙂 absolutely stunning.
If I may repost a post I made last night in a previous thread about a less esoteric flaw in GS's reasoning.
OK What you fail to understand Galactic Storm is this that the magic Vertigo titles (Hellblazer, Sandman, Tim Hunter, Lucifer) diverged from mainstream DCU continuity, though they enjoy occasionally borrowing characters. I'm also getting the feeling that the Vertigo titles are diverging from each other as well (this feels natural, for the Vertigo books are very self-empowered; about philosophy rather than iconic characters). For instance, Hellblazer doesn't seem to have noticed the changes wrought in the Lucifer series (despite Constantine's cameo in an early issue). I realise John's affairs are small fry compared to Lucifer's cosmic struggle, but surely the abdication of God and the reforms in Hell must have would have some impact.
As you say Leo it is obvious GS is relativly intelligent, unfortunately, his ideas like most religious ideas are supposition and interpretation. Evidence takes a back seat.
