phoenix and women

if you can find a transcript in the kaballah doctrines, the torah, or whatever other jewish-derived readings you stumble across that describe the place of any of the cosmic entities (namely eternity, or the living tribunal or whomsoever LT works for) as sentient bodies, or which explains the "spiral" brought forth in x-man, or even the multiverse-governing bodies in otherworld, i'd be more inclined to agree with you. but until interpretations of the phoenix find their way into changing the presence or foundations of these and similar institutions in the marvel universe, i'm inclined to say there are certain flaws in this latest presentation of the phoenix. no out of line speculation. no theories invented for this instance.

Originally posted by Disappear
if you can find a transcript in the kaballah doctrines, the torah, or whatever other jewish-derived readings you stumble across that describe the place of any of the cosmic entities (namely eternity, or the living tribunal or whomsoever LT works for) as sentient bodies, or which explains the "spiral" brought forth in x-man, or even the multiverse-governing bodies in otherworld, i'd be more inclined to agree with you. but until interpretations of the phoenix find their way into changing the presence or foundations of these and similar institutions in the marvel universe, i'm inclined to say there are certain flaws in this latest presentation of the phoenix. no out of line speculation. no theories invented for this instance.

Well actually Disappear if you'd read my last post you'd see that recently Galactus' origins have been changed to fit in with this new phoenix interpretation (look below)

X-men forever also talked of how Phoenix ushers in the death and and rebirth cycle of creation and showed it to be at the very core of the creation cycle of the marvel multiverse X-men forever also ushered in the idea of phoenix being linked to evolution and was all about humanity evolving into forms beyond the likes of the abstracts and LT and Phoenix was at the very heart of it. (see below). The creation cycle was shown in this series to revolve around phoenix and evolution which it was linked to. All of these changes have ocurred within the last 3 and a half years. A phoenix retcon has indeed taken place my friend.

Galactus' revised handbook entry. Off Hbk Fantastic 4 2005:

Heres a bit from F4 talking of Galactus' origins and the energies of creation:

Heres Stranger talking to Jean about Phoenix and evolution and how they defined creation:

Heres Jean as the centre of creation beyond the abstracts and LT (who are bowing):

Phoenix is indeed linked to evolution Disappear. Thats what X-men forever was about. It talked of omega mutants and their unlimited potential. Stranger talked of how Jean had already touched her potential as the phoenix and he planned to use jean and her power to speed up evolution and end the creation cycle prematurely.

Eternity talked of Phoenix as the resurrection force "the assurance of life after death". He talked of it being the heart of the creation cycle and whilst the abstracts and LT were replaced each creation cycle by the evolution of humanity. Phoenix was the only constant throughout it all. Bringing big bang after big bang crunch after crunch. The evolution of humanity into higher beings who transcend the physical and become a part of creation is based on Kaballah principles and is the core of the current phoenix interpretation. Which itself is a reversion to Chris C's original ideas.

there a comic called x-men forever...wow i never heard of that..

😱 WOW
Very convincing and well backed up post Galactic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

convincing indeed. i concede.

Originally posted by Disappear
convincing indeed. i concede.

Cool. 😮‍💨

Monoliths next 😉

i talked to him the other day. since phoenix's origin hasn't specifically been rewritten, as in she's still the sum of all lifeforce past, present and future, and feron, merlyn and necrom still had a hand in shaping her, he accepts that the writing of the present makes phoenx part of jean, and jean of phoenix, but that it doesn't change the past. he's more sick of the topic than i.

and, thinking about it, i'm willing to accept any interpretation of the phoenix that'll keep her out of the comics for a good length of time...

Originally posted by Disappear
i talked to him the other day. since phoenix's origin hasn't specifically been rewritten, as in she's still the sum of all lifeforce past, present and future, and feron, merlyn and necrom still had a hand in shaping her, he accepts that the writing of the present makes phoenx part of jean, and jean of phoenix, but that it doesn't change the past. he's more sick of the topic than i.

and, thinking about it, i'm willing to accept any interpretation of the phoenix that'll keep her out of the comics for a good length of time...

But thats the thing though. That definition of phoenix as the sum of all life force past present and future is the 86 retcon phoenix which had nothing to do with the crown.

That Feron incident just like Beyonders origin are all victims of retcon.

that's between you guys now... i'm all about not going back into any sort of phoenix-related discussion at this point.

Originally posted by Disappear
that's between you guys now... i'm all about not going back into any sort of phoenix-related discussion at this point.

So you're withdrawing your previous comment? 🙂 Cool 😉

which comment? i was relaying monolith's views on the topic to you. i'm just done with this topic as a whole, heart of creation or not.

Originally posted by Disappear
which comment? i was relaying monolith's views on the topic to you. i'm just done with this topic as a whole, heart of creation or not.

I was just messing with you anyway 😉

Well tell Monolith to come on over anytime and i'll gladly clue him up on how to update those profiles of his 😱

aww, this was getting really good, but real convincing pics GS

So wait. . merlin was around the 600 bc someodd mark right? And phoenix helped bring Galactus from the previous universe over?

So Merlin created a time traveling force of creation?

nah, its some guy named Merlyn i think, not the Arthurian one

considering galactus' origin was changed after the merlyn/necrom/feron incident is detailed, it becomes a case of galactus' origin contradicting history (in the form of a retcon,) and not a 'this merlyn shit doesn't make sense' issue.

and the phoenix force has always been around. it was only when feron harnessed it into a semi-sentient entity with a firebird emblem that it became the PHOENIX force...

and merlyn was the former governing power in otherworld, the watchdogs of the multiverse. pretty sure he's dead now. and he was some sort of wizard/mage, and may have been an alien. i guess it doesn't really matter at this point, but no, he's not the merlin of arthurian lore.

Originally posted by Disappear
considering galactus' origin was changed after the merlyn/necrom/feron incident is detailed, it becomes a case of galactus' origin contradicting history (in the form of a retcon,) and not a 'this merlyn shit doesn't make sense' issue.

and the phoenix force has always been around. it was only when feron harnessed it into a semi-sentient entity with a firebird emblem that it became the PHOENIX force...

and merlyn was the former governing power in otherworld, the watchdogs of the multiverse. pretty sure he's dead now. and he was some sort of wizard/mage, and may have been an alien. i guess it doesn't really matter at this point, but no, he's not the merlin of arthurian lore.

And it is the same Merlin of Arthurian lore. At least Marvel's take on it.

Merlyn is the same as Merlin from Arthurian lore in the Marvel Universe. He held the role Roma does now, Omniversal Guardian, except he liked to play games and interfere with lives a lot more. I can't remember whether he's dead or not - but he's the type of character that's never necessarily truly dead. As far as I know he's a half-demon.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Actually it wasn't "phoenix" force until it was named as such by Jean.

And it is the same Merlin of Arthurian lore. At least Marvel's take on it.

Oooooo Cresh is laying down the law 😱