Ganthet vs Spectre! Once and for all!

#33 Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Look at the pictures?! Look at the pictures?!!? That's what I've been asking you to do the whole time! During Parallax's trinity conversation Spectre and Hal are both writhing in pain! Parallax's return in #3 involves him casting aside Spectre and Hal like they were husks of skin! Gathellax is ginormously HUGE compared to Specthallax! You want ME to look at the pictures? Why don't you look at the damn words! Look at what they say, for goodness sake! Look, I'm not saying your view is completely ridiculous, we're not the only ones debating this on the internet. But if you take a Google search, you'll see that most people agree that Rebirth and Day of Vengeance are pretty clear cut, and most people have a problem with that as an inconsistency with the past, not because they believe Geoff Johns painted Parallax as a mocking, bluffing character and Ganthet as being oblivious to the truth. I'm going to post this argument in the forums and let's have some other people weigh in. Because the only thing you reply in this last post of yours is some explanation that BEFORE Shadowpact came in, Spectre didn't cut off Shazam's power source in the beginning of their first fight, simply because he didn't feel like it. He sure felt like dealing with Madame Xanadu's power by bypassing it and taking her eyes.

Alright now. I am done. Please read through carefully and discuss as well. I think just keeping the debate between 3 people has not been very productive. What do you guys in KMC forums think? Please post now and thank you for your patience! Here's the link to the original thread in case you think I may have done some underhanded editing and cutting:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=368278

one theyve probably already read everything lol. but on most other forums i go to The Spectre is always put above Ganthet.

Other forums I saw, everyone pretty much agreed that Ganthet > Spectre because of Rebirth. Any objections were purely based on the fact that they had thought Spectre > Ganthet before they read Rebirth and this took them by surprise. Trust me, you and Juntai are the only ones I have seen, who are arguing that Rebirth cannot be read this way. that the words, picture and storyline mean something else.

Here's one of em:

http://www.sketchyorigins.com/comics/showthread.php?t=8090&page=4

Dr. Zapato and Khastriya was telling Fizerani that they got it wrong when they said that onebumb, saying they ****ed up the grammar in how they said it "Even the power of the Spectre dwarfs the Guardians'', they are telling him its meaning The Spectre is more powerful then the Guardians. BUT in reality that saying how they said it in Rebirth is correct, it means The Spectre is more powerful then the Guardians, it came out of Ganthets own mouth him saying The Spectre is more powerful. I just asked 2 other ppl that i live with and they both agree with the grammar how its being used that The Spectre is above Ganthet(guardians). its just that its throwing ppl off and they think it means The Spectre isn't as powerful as the guardians which he is even more powerful then them.

If Ganthet himself states that the power of the Spectre dwarfs his own then whats there to debate about?

Spectre with ease.

"""""Ganthet: "Kilowog is free from your influence. Even the power of the Spectre dwarfs the Guardians'."""""""

Theres no escaping the fact that this line from Ganthets very mouth means that the Spectre is more powerful.

When i read the issue and i read this line then i went on to read Parallaxs line i just dismissed Parallaxs line as a mistake.

Evereything up until this comic pointed towards Spectre being more powerful as did Ganthets words and even events in the comic. Spectre exorcised Parallax from itself and Hal Jordan yet Ganthet couldnt rid himself of the parasite alone. He required the aid of the 5 Gl's. All of that makes it very clear that Spectre is indeed more powerful.

In the series when Hal became the Spectre, he shut off the entire Quintessence's power.. including Ganthet.

Dude, you cannot match a blue-dwarf against a chalk-white WRATH OF GOD !!!

Originally posted by ImmortalOne
Dude, you cannot match a blue-dwarf against a chalk-white WRATH OF GOD !!!

I used to think Ganthet was more powerful than Spectre but after seeing what Spectre did to my homie Shazaam I dont know if Ganthet has what it takes.

Ganthet did say the Spectres powers dwarf his so Im wondering if Ganthet has some tricks up his sleeves that nobody knows about.

By the way I am very upset with the death of Shazaam. That means no more Captain Marvel either.

Never mess with Spectre !!!

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I used to think Ganthet was more powerful than Spectre but after seeing what Spectre did to my homie Shazaam I dont know if Ganthet has what it takes.

Ganthet did say the Spectres powers dwarf his so Im wondering if Ganthet has some tricks up his sleeves that nobody knows about.

By the way I am very upset with the death of Shazaam. That means no more Captain Marvel either.

wat shazam is dead how? 😕 does any one have a scane of it?

Originally posted by supremthor
wat shazam is dead how? 😕 does any one have a scane of it?

I wonder what will happen to Billy Batson?

Originally posted by snoopdogg
This is the last panel Shazaam was seen in. On the last page of the comic The Phantom Stranger said that he was dead.

I wonder what will happen to Billy Batson?

😱

God I love the spectre. lol.
I have nearly assembled every one of his comics, all series'. It was tough, and expensive.

Please. Ganthet is on the same level as Shazam and The Spectre completely raped him in DOV 6. I wouldn't say Ganthet is more powerful than Ion and Hal Jordan Parallax were and Hal said that power was nothing compared to The Spectre.

snoop that isn't the last time we see Shazam alive, on the page where it shows The Rock of Eternity blowing up above Gotham City the page opposite to that Phantom Stranger is telling everyone (in his head for us of course) "I see a Great Stone come crashing down on the ancient Wizard." and it shows a stone coming down on a person that is shaded black looks like Shazam coming down on him. that is the last time we see him in the book, so im pretty sure he's dead since Spectre must have taken all of his power away and he couldn't stop it coming down on him. Shazam was in his place of power and he was at his most powerful during that time and still lost.

Ganthet and the Guardians long ago had Doomsday on there planet Oa and tried for years to destroy him but couldn't so they finally got smart about it realising he couldn't die and sent him halfway across the galaxy. If the Guardians can't even kill Doomsday how is 1 guardian Ganthet going to stand up to The Spectre???

The Spectre wins..................

People have wondered whether those two lines were editorial mistakes. I saw it too. Two different contradicting lines spoken at two different times. One is quoting the other. I've read in other threads that parallax quoting is more reliable. Apaprently, you guys think the second one is unreliable. At that point, it is unclear because it could go either way. But if you take it the way I read it, and the first one is an editorial oversight, which admittedly, not very many people saw at first, and the second comment quoting is the right one, my premises stand as ultimately foolproof except in the face of older comics. However, taking the first to be right, and the second to be wrong still does not change the way the characters behaved, especially Parallax and Spectre himself and the way Geoff Johns presented the story, plotwise and character design wise. So, if we both agree that those statements can read either way, (of course I think the second one is much more clearer and unambiguous and therefore stronger) you line up my presmises and explanations against your own and on a purely dialectic level, they don't stand up.

Spectre doesn't feel like seperating Parallax and Hal? Spectre doesn't feel like shutting off Shazam's power feed when he first battles Cap? Ganthellax is ginormously huge compared to Specthallax because he was just trying to be intimidating? Parallax in his emergence in #3 shreds Spectre and Hal like husks because he was bluffing? The climax of heightened crisis diminishes towards the end of the story? These inconsistencies, in and of itself, clearly show that your conclusions are weak at best. The fact that now your pointing to an editorial ambiguity to bypass these inconsistencies also points to the weakness of your hypothesis. Apparently, the sole evidence you place on Spectre > ganthet w/power of Guardians is now an editorial oversight that could go either way? If that's the case, I have no need to point out anything further and I'll let you chew on it for a while.

Edit: These 3 links point to people on different wavelengths with regards to the editorial oversight. The 2nd one is most on point, but the thread pretty much agrees, the editorial oversight was the 1st comment, not the second:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=77861&page=2&pp=15

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000042135&messageID=2001237293

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread/t-39960.html