OneDumbG0
Find Your Own Fire
Been away for awhile, been busy. So anyway, why not, let's revive. Although it'll mainly be between me and Juntai. First off, yeah, if Spectre fully powered by Presence went off to do God's will, Ganthet would be smoke.
Second, it is important to discuss the point of the original debate. At the time of "Rebirth," Parallax was the SOLE custodian of the entire Power of the Guardians. You had 3 normal GL's, and then him as SOLE Guardian. Therefore, the point of the thread was whether one person with the entire Power of the Guardians could take on Spectre. Therefore, it is very important to use 'Rebirth' as the origin of this debate and any premises. You can't say Ganthet sucks on his own, because one Guardian of many got pwned by Doomsday. That Guardian never was the sole custodian of the entire Power of the Guardians.
Third, let me clarify my terms:
1) Hallax = Hal Jordan when possessed by Parallax
2) Spectrehallax = Hal binded with Spectre and Parallax possessing them
3) Ganthellax = Ganthet when possessed by Parallax
Now let's be very clear how this thread came about. Juntai is being quite prejudiced when he mentions that Ganthet talks about how he "said" Spectre dwarfed the Guardians, when in fact it is very clear, an editorial error occurred. Because later on, Parallax talks to Ganthet later on during the climax and quotes Ganthet, "You said the Spectre's power was nothing to you? Well Parallax lives. In you!"
Now this can't be reconciled between the two statements. One is made in error. One of those statements was f'ed up. I think it is very obvious that the first one was error. Because of context. 1) During the first statement, Ganthet squares up against Spectrehallax on his own and then tries to threaten him by saying, "Oh btw, my power sucks compared to yours." That just doesn't make sense. 2) Afterwards during the climax, Ganthellax grows insanely huge and powerful, and exhibited more power than he had as Spectrehallax. For him to say, "Oh btw, I am absorbing much less power than I had before, but you guys are all screwed anyway." is also STUPID.
The "stupid" view is what Juntai is positing. That Ganthet said first, "I suck compared to you." and second, that Parallax says, "Yeah, you suck compared ot the power I had before, but I'm gonna pwn anyway." It doesn't make sense.
But this is how the entire debate started. Because I said, "Hmph. I didn't think Ganthet, even with the entire Power of the Guardians was more powerful than Spectre... but hey... is he really lying when he said that?" Now let's start.
Originally posted by Juntai
Not to mention Ganthet was still scared of Hal/Parallax after the events of Zero Hour, in which he was severely weakened. He hid from him explicitly, and didn't reapear until the end of Final Night, when Hal was about to suicide himself. Spectre tackled him[Hal/Parallax] at full strength and depowered him so the heros could defeat him. And didn't the rest of the Guardians die trying to stop Hal and made Ganthet the last survivor, and asked him to pass the torch in Emerald Twilight?
How about the Power of Parallax, even depleted after Zero Hour, and then Final Night, was still sufficient enough for Kyle to reignite the Power Battery AND create a new race of Guardians?
I'm not sure what point you're making here. You're saying, the Power of the Guardians isn't all that much? Or that Ganthet isn't all that? The way I saw all the events leading up to 'Rebirth,' was that Hallax absorbed the Power of the Guardians (pretty much completely), leaving Ganthet pretty powerless, still kept that power during 'Final Night,' which still kept Ganthet powerless and Ganthet was only able to take control again when Kyle reignited the Power Battery (the conduit for the Power of the Guardians).
Originally posted by Juntai
[b]1) He wants to argue the Pre-Retcon version of Spectre being inefficient against Anti-Matter - which was also seen and supported in Crisis on Multiple Earths, pretty much old JLA-JSA teamups...against the Anti-Matter man...however the CURRENT Spectre, as protector of all the limitless realms of existance, has not shown such a limitation. As of COIE, he was maybe the most powerful character, but he wasn't Spectre as we know now him until Volume 3, just shy of a decade after the event. 2)Yet, the story he's using for this arguement - again COIE, the ENTIRE HOST of Guardians got dropped by Anti-Monitor in one shot. 3)Spectre tackled him at the peak of his power, much like the Parallax incident.[/b]
1)As far as I'm concerned, unless Spectre has recently been shown to overcome anti-matter, a VERY SPECIFIC limitation for magic users, the latest feat takes precedence and for purposes of this debate, Spectre is still ineffectual against anti-matter.
2)The Guardians got dropped by a sneak attack btw. Nice try. Even Spectre gets taken unawares, so don't even use this argument ever again. Black Alice anyone? Emperor Joker? Pfft. Please.
3) Spectre only tackled Anti-Monitor aftwe he absorbed the magic of all the Earth's magicians. Why couldn't Spectre take Anti-Monitor down on his own? Because he needed to absorb magic. That's how Spectre fights unless powered by the Presence to do a specific act willed by God. It's how Spectre fought Anti-Monitor, Shazam AND Nabu.
Originally posted by Juntai
What about Doomsday Annual number 1? When Doomsday with a GL ring was rampaging OA, and they couldn't stop him, but instead after the death of a Guardian already taken place- teleported him away, and hoped he wouldn't find a way back.
I already took care of this argument. You can't use a single Guardian's death to hypothesize how Ganthet (sole custodian of Power of Guardians) would do. It's like saying Ion would lose to Superman, because John Stewart lost to Superman. How can you even compare both instances?
Originally posted by Juntai
Notice in Day of Judgement, which turned Hal into Spectre;
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5361/dayofjudgement119bi6.jpg
You'll notice Highfather, Zues, Ganthet and Shazam, suddenly find themselves powerless. Can't even get their scrying device to work right. lol.
Apperently, even their combined might is "not beyond the threat of Spectre."
This is SUCH A WRONG READING OF THAT SCAN. When they say, "They are not beyond the threat of the Spectre" they are referring to the fact that they cannot and should not ignore such a threat. Because although Highfather and Ganthet usually do the M.O. of 'not interfering' like Marvel's Watcher, they feel that the need to intervene is important and cannot be ignored. I can't believe you would EVER consider this statement as some sort of power comparison.
Originally posted by Juntai
Spectre was unable to do anything to Parallax Parasite?
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/3669/greenlanternrebirth041718no8.jpg
How about cleansing it from Jordan's soul?
He is then needed elsewhere and leaves.
"Without The Spectre, there are no hands to hold me in place."
He then says to Ganthet, you once claimed the power of Spectre was nothing to yours, and then tries to take him. Which is another part of OneDumbGo's previous arguement-- However, the claim was nothing more than that and is completely unsupported and unfounded. OneDumbGo believes that this idea was supported by the idea that the Ganthet merged with Parallax in the story LOOKED MEANER and was therefore stronger. Wtf?
This is absolutely wrong. LOOK AT THE BELOW SCAN. Spectre couldn't do a god damn thing against Parallax. The only reason Spectre separated Parallax from Hal in your scan is because Hal destroyed the grip Parallax had on Hal's soul. Hal did MOST of the work. How did he do most of the work? Parallax's grip onto people's souls is based on fear. Hal fought fear and left Parallax no grip on his soul. Spectre, then finally tore em apart, when Parallax's grip was loosened. This is how Hal, John Stewart and the rest of them, overcome their weakness to yellow now. They focus on fear, overcome it and therefore the yellow spectrum of fear has no effect on them. Juntai, your scan is absolutely hiding the context. And if you want context, just look at my scan. How helpless does Spectre look in that scan? What changes that situation later on? Hal fighting fear. Think about it.
Originally posted by Juntai
How about we come even more current?
Spectre destroyed the The Lords of Chaos and Order, the least of which Ganthet is considered peers with, as he hangs out among SHAZAM and Phantom Stranger [as seen in the scan above], both of whom were dealt with in Day of Vengence.
Oh give me a break. This is where I will bring up history. YOU stated that Ganthet = Shazam in terms of power in this very thread. They are all one member of the Quintessence and Shazam's defeat is very analagous to a hypothetical defeat of Ganthet. I said, NO. The Quintessence's members have different levels of power. NOW we even see from 'Day of Venegance' that Nabu was indeed more powerful than Shazam. So my point is absolutely correct. Peers as the Quitessence means absolutely nothing in terms of peers of power. I just used your own point on you and turned it on its back. You opened yourself up to it, and I'm more than happy to point it out.
