Cyclops vs. Storm

Originally posted by stormultt
And thats why hes lost to her twice in the past right? uh! hm.....figures

God forbid somebody should mention again how Cyclops casually shot her out of the sky after dodging her lightning bolt while he had his back turned and had a few broken ribs.... and she thought he was a renegade Phoenix, for f***'s sake.

Well, so much for your argument.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
Pretty much, black people aren't supposed to lose to white people in Marvel. I hate Marvel's views on black people. There are like one or two really good and unique black characters.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Maybe, but it's still no where near as bad as their lack of prominent Hispanic characters.

I'll reply to this in the OTF to avoid topic derailment.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
You mean like that one time she removed his visor and he shut his eyes and forfeited to keep from killing her? Or more recently, that time he was possessed by the Shadow King in the craptacular Worlds Apart, in which he still managed to kick the crap out of her h2h but for some reason didn't blast her to hell when he had the chance?

God forbid somebody should mention again how Cyclops casually shot her out of the sky after dodging her lightning bolt while he had his back turned and had a few broken ribs.... and she thought he was a renegade Phoenix, for f***'s sake.

Well, so much for your argument.

But to be fair, one can counter your arguments as well. Cykes admitted that Storm hesitated when she shot lightning at him b/c she thought something was off and that was the only reason he was able to dodge it and why he was able to shoot her out of the sky. You could also counter your H2H argument in Worlds Apart with the fight where she removed his visor. The fact that he simply forfeited the match doesn't prove that she could beat him, but if he were so much better than her H2H then she wouldn't have been able to remove the visor.

This isn't to weigh in on the topic at hand, but merely to show that it's not as clear cut as you think.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
I'll reply to this in the OTF to avoid topic derailment.

Check this out son http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=522307

h2h in worlds apart, she lost on purpose so the shadown king would beleive that killing scott was her last resort.

* she struck him with lightning, but she makes him kick her and punch her on purpose? 😕

Originally posted by Peterlane
Alrady happned b4. Storm blocked his beams with a lightninbolt

* that was not quick draw... 😉

* Cyke hits Storm:

* Cyke dodges lightning bolt and hits Storm:

* Cyke -> THE LEADER, comment by Storm:

* Cyke's blast = speed of light:

* Cyke tags Northstar, who is faster and quicker than Storm and incidentally managed to strike Storm in this scenario:

* Cyke wins this... 🙂

Peejayd, while I appreciate the scans, they don't really help your argument.

The first 2 scans are posted out of order, and are thus misleading. Cyke specifically states and Storm's dialogue confirms that she hesitated. That is why he was able to dodge and that is why he was able to hit her. I really don't think it proves he can dodge her attacks or conversely, that she would be unable to dodge his beam. (Both are ridiculous in my opinion because there is no way either one of them should be able to dodge the other's attack.)

She calls him the leader. What does that prove? She also calls herself the Goddess. . .

Yes, his beam travels fast. So does her lightning. I'm not willing to wager which is faster. It's about who is capable of commencing their attack first. That is the core of the debate. Some think Cyclops. Others think Storm would be able to counter it.

The Northstar example is moot. I don't really think anyone who is arguing for Storm is claiming that she's too fast for him. He will hit her, dead on. No doubt. The question is can she either hit him first or block his attack.

Again, I'm not trying to say that Cyclops can't win this. I just don't think those scans really help the argument.

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Peejayd, while I appreciate the scans, they don't really help your argument.

* scans make arguments credible...

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
The first 2 scans are posted out of order, and are thus misleading.

* i have no intention of misleading anyone, i just post pics randomly...

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Cyke specifically states and Storm's dialogue confirms that she hesitated. That is why he was able to dodge and that is why he was able to hit her. I really don't think it proves he can dodge her attacks or conversely, that she would be unable to dodge his beam. (Both are ridiculous in my opinion because there is no way either one of them should be able to dodge the other's attack.)

* the dialogue is clear, my friend... Storm was puzzled... the "hesitation of Storm" was in Cyke's mind, he also thinks he "mis-timed" his move and Storm hesitated FRACTIONALLY... only means whether Storm hesitated or not, it does not matter because she still executed a lightning... Cyke anticipated lightning from the start that's why he was able to dodge it...

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
She calls him the leader. What does that prove? She also calls herself the Goddess. . .

* simple point, even if she is a leader herself, she called Cyke "THE leader"...

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Yes, his beam travels fast. So does her lightning. I'm not willing to wager which is faster. It's about who is capable of commencing their attack first. That is the core of the debate. Some think Cyclops. Others think Storm would be able to counter it.

* both optic blast and lightning are extremely fast... that's why in the quick draw argument earlier, the debate should be who can execute his/her power first... Storm should attack, because thinking of countering an optic blast is idiotic... and yes, the Worlds Apart comic is PIS and CIS, or that's because Cyke was mind-controlled by Shadow King...

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
The Northstar example is moot. I don't really think anyone who is arguing for Storm is claiming that she's too fast for him. He will hit her, dead on. No doubt. The question is can she either hit him first or block his attack.

* Cyke tagging someone faster and quicker than Storm is valid... what was moot was Storm using lightning to block the optic blast and wave the optic blast away with her winds... but hey, it's comics... 😛

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
Again, I'm not trying to say that Cyclops can't win this. I just don't think those scans really help the argument.

* for some ways, it does, my friend... 🙂

Originally posted by peejayd
* scans make arguments credible...

Only when they actually support the arguments being made 🙂

the dialogue is clear, my friend... Storm was puzzled... the "hesitation of Storm" was in Cyke's mind, he also thinks he "mis-timed" his move and Storm hesitated FRACTIONALLY... only means whether Storm hesitated or not, it does not matter because she still executed a lightning... Cyke anticipated lightning from the start that's why he was able to dodge it...

Actually no. And punctuation is your friend!

The hesitation was not in Cyclops' mind. The dialogue speaks for itself. Storm stops to question why Phoenix is behaving so strangely. This is what caused her to hesitate. Cyke also says that he should have been fried. One can thus infer that he believes he should have been hit. Placing the word fractionally in capitals also doesnt really help you lol. When you are dealing with someone as competent as Cyclops, you only need the slightest hesitation for him to take advantage of it. And she was in the midst of executing the lightning when she paused. It does make a difference

Yes, he was anticipating that she would open with lightning. That does not mean he would have been capable of dodging it. His comment leads me to believe that he would not have had she not paused momentarily, but we can argue that point. I wouldn't offer it as proof however.

* simple point, even if she is a leader herself, she called Cyke "THE leader"...

She didn't call herself a leader. She called herself "the goddess." I really don't think either makes a difference and I do not know why you would post this scan in a debate about who would be able to strike/counter first. He's the leader yet there are plenty of other X-men who can take him. How does this scan support your argument?

both optic blast and lightning are extremely fast... that's why in the quick draw argument earlier, the debate should be who can execute his/her power first... Storm should attack, because thinking of countering an optic blast is idiotic... and yes, the Worlds Apart comic is PIS and CIS, or that's because Cyke was mind-controlled by Shadow King...

No, that is what you think. I could use your same argument of anticipation. Given that both travel at relatively the same speed, if Storm were to anticipate the blast, she theoretically would be able to block it. I think she saw it coming in Worlds Apart, so It doesn't seem that ridiculous to me. Would she be able to do it in this situation? That is what the debate is about. Also, Cyke being mind-controlled did not slow the speed at which his blast traveled. A more valid argument, in my mind, would be that b/c Cyke was being mind controlled he did not fight as cleverly as he might otherwise. I do not think that him being mind controlled takes away from the fact that she blocked a blast at such a close distance. I would not use that scan to prove that Storm beats him, but I would not disregard that particular feat entirely. Similarly, I don't think the scan of Cyclops shooting her out of the sky proves that he beats her, but it does show that his aim, even when mistimed, is impeccable.

* Cyke tagging someone faster and quicker than Storm is valid... what was moot was Storm using lightning to block the optic blast and wave the optic blast away with her winds... but hey, it's comics... 😛

It's valid but, it adds nothing to this particular debate. I don't believe that anyone has claimed that Storm would be too fast to be hit by Cyke's blast. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. However, I don't think that anyone could seriously argue that Storm would be able to dodge the blast. The only way that scan would be useful is if someone claimed that. He's not going to miss her. End of story. The only questions are, can she actually pull another Worlds Apart or can she blast him first.

* for some ways, it does, my friend... 🙂

Originally posted by peejayd
* Cyke tags Northstar, who is faster and quicker than Storm and incidentally managed to strike Storm in this scenario:

[img]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7387/823589uxm121pg14super.jpg

Originally posted by Sasaraixx
The only questions are, can she actually pull another Worlds Apart or can she blast him first.

Correct. All that other stuff is pointless.

This entire battle depedns on how Storm starts this fight.

No, it doesn't.

The match starts, Cyke thinks = optic blast through Ororo's face.

The quickdraw factor here is easily in Scott's favor.

Does Cyclops want her of his lawn, or will he cut her head and hide the ****in' body?

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No, it doesn't.

The match starts, Cyke thinks = optic blast through Ororo's face.

The quickdraw factor here is easily in Scott's favor.

Storm's reaction time is faster than Scott's. Scott has to think before he fires. Storm is able to look at his nervous system and see what he is going to do before he can execute it. She then has reaction time fast enough to do something about it. Here is the scan:

http://img122.imageshack.us/i/energyworld42xc.jpg/

Then combine that scan with the fact that she can use her powers with "less than a conscious thought."

http://img46.imageshack.us/i/lessthanacnsciousthoughfo4.jpg/

One can infer that essentially Storm is so tied into her environment that nature can carry out what she wills before her conscious mind can catch up with what's going on.

I have seen Storm, when greatly weakened, have a quick draw fight with Sauron. Sauron had drained her and the other X-Men and was thus at peak power. Yet and still, when he and Storm faced each other down, it was stated that she struck faster than he and took him down with an elemental assault before he could bring to bear his hypnotic eye beams.

She has been able to instanteously freeze entire areas and create hurricanes and tornadoes in the "literal blink of an eye." Her attacks are environmental and thus should be impossible for Cyclops to avoid. On top of that, he has no defense whatsoever against her powers while she can defend herself against his attacks. I think what is going on here is some Storm-hating. There is no realistic way for Scott to win this fight and people are making stuff up about it taking time for Storm to use her powers. They do this because if Scott fails to take her out at the very beginning of the fight, there is no way he can win without PIS working against Storm. Furthermore, there is no proof that his power activation is faster than hers (or any other energy wielder) while there are instances in abundance to argue in her favor in a quick draw fight.

Nothing in this scan:

http://img122.imageshack.us/i/energyworld42xc.jpg/

backs up this:

Originally posted by Rutog98
Storm's reaction time is faster than Scott's. Scott has to think before he fires. Storm is able to look at his nervous system and see what he is going to do before he can execute it. She then has reaction time fast enough to do something about it.

seriously. don't twist shit.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
No, it doesn't.

The match starts, Cyke thinks = optic blast through Ororo's face.

The quickdraw factor here is easily in Scott's favor.

Can you show me where it states his visor is thought controlled?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Nothing in this scan:

backs up this:

seriously. don't twist shit.

I'm not twisting anything. Seriously, I think you want to turn a blind eye to what that scan said. She can see the electrons travelling in the human nervous system which actually is how the brain communicates with the rest of the body. This gives her a crucial edge in any fight. That is what the scan said. That said, in X-Men issue 60, Storm dodged Cyclops' blast when he fired at her in machine gun fashion.

Also, I notice that you avoided the scan that showed she can work her powers with less than a conscious thought.

Originally posted by HandOfFate
Can you show me where it states his visor is thought controlled?

Frequently he is depicted as firing an optic blast with his hands nowhere near his visor. Is it then unreasonable to ascertain that his visor is indeed controlled by thought?

Originally posted by Rutog98
I'm not twisting anything. Seriously, I think you want to turn a blind eye to what that scan said. She can see the electrons travelling in the human nervous system which actually is how the brain communicates with the rest of the body. This gives her a crucial edge in any fight. That is what the scan said. That said, in X-Men issue 60, Storm dodged Cyclops' blast when he fired at her in machine gun fashion.

Also, I notice that you avoided the scan that showed she can work her powers with less than a conscious thought.

Even then the "crucial edge in any fight" is slightly hyperbolic, as it certainly wouldn't do her any good in a fight she couldn't win, like galactus or a being ridiculously high enough that you'd have to agree she couldn't win. I can give that it would be the same as a martial artist reading his opponents moves by seeing where these are going. How ever you face the problem of this not effecting the speed of communication within her own nervous system. By the time she'd be able to react to the information she saw the information she saw would have already arrived since she would have been seeing the pulses (through the skin and muscle and even bone somehow mind you) en route. Unless you're suggesting that she can somehow push her nervous system pulses at least twice as fast as another persons? In order to get her impulses to where she needs before the impulses she's seeing get to where they're headed?