Darkseid vs Odin

Started by darthgoober41 pages
darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by starking
My point was clear. Time effecting events do not effect ones power. Saying one power is changed by such an event is just speculation, and speculation<logic. Of course Darkseid's older self would be smarter. What are you expecting him to be dumber? It was made clear that current Darkseid's power was greater then before the Gds. My therory is the best way of determining, whats what, and whats not for Darkseid's Gds showings.

Here think about it this way. Let's say that Marty Mcfly goes 10 years into the future where his future self has just beaten a super genius in chess. Then Marty kicks his future version's ass in a game of tic tack toe. Does that mean that the Marty from the past can beat the super genius in chess just because he beat his future version in a game that requires no where near as much overall intelligence? No. See, TKing that planet and controlling millions of Daxamite's are MENTAL feats. "Future" DS was current DS's superior mentally even if his younger version was superior physically. That means that those feats are INVALID.

If the character hasn't done it personally, then it doesn't matter what an "alternate future" version is capable of(that's why What If's and the like aren't viable evidence for mainstream characters).

starking African nipple cobra

Originally posted by darthgoober
Here think about it this way. Let's say that Marty Mcfly goes 10 years into the future where his future self has just beaten a super genius in chess. Then Marty kicks his future version's ass in a game of tic tack toe. Does that mean that the Marty from the past can beat the super genius in chess just because he beat his future version in a game that requires no where near as much overall intelligence? No. See, TKing that planet and controlling millions of Daxamite's are MENTAL feats. "Future" DS was current DS's superior mentally even if his younger version was superior physically. That means that those feats are INVALID.

If the character hasn't done it personally, then it doesn't matter what an "alternate future" version is capable of(that's why What If's and the like aren't viable evidence for mainstream characters).

Now thats not the best of judgement, right there. Comparing tic tack toe, to power feats is completely irrelevent. They work much differently. No where did it say the future version of Darkseid, posses greater tp, it said he was smarter. Of course your older self will be smarter then your younger self, you pick up more knowledge when you become older. Intelligence has nothing to do with one's tp. In that case Mr.Fantastic is a greater telepath, then Professer X, because he's smarter. And no, the Gds Darkseid isn't an alternate future version. He defeated his older and later on returned to the past. Using the logic of time, Darkseid should still have memorys of the event, for the Zero hour retcon shouldn't have effected Ds's memory. Like I said, temporal retcons do not effect one's power.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by starking
Now thats not the best of good judgement, right there. Comparing tic tack toe, to power feats is completely irrelevent. They work much differently.

No I'm comparing tic tack toe to DS beating his older version in physical combat(which he didn't even technically do).

Originally posted by starking

No where did it say the future version of Darkseid, posses greater tp, it said he was smarter. Of course your older self will be smarter then your younger self, you pick up more knowledge when you become older. Intelligence has nothing to do with one's tp. In that case Mr.Fantastic is a greater telepath, then Professer X, because he's smarter.

Wrong because Prof X is a telepath and Mr. Fantasic is not. But I'm pretty sure that if you took today's Prof X and had him have an all out TP battle with an older version that for some reason had lived for thousands of years and thus had thousands of years into the future and thus had more experience in tp combat and tp in genera, "todays" Prof X would get his ass kicked even if his "younger" self was able to punch his "older" self out.

By the same token, if you took the Prof. X of today and pitted him against himself from 30 years ago, the younger version would get his ass kicked do to the older version having more experience.

Originally posted by starking

And know the Gds Darkseid isn't an alternate future version. He defeated his older and later on returned to the past. Using the logic of time, Darkseid should still have memorys of the event, for the Zero hour retcon shouldn't have effected Ds's memory. Like I said, temporal retcons do not effect one's power.

But it IS an alternate future version, that's the whole point. Current DS NEVER experienced the GDS and because of COIE and many other events that have happened, he likely never will. Thus he's DS from an ALTERNATE future. If you were talking about DS from a couple of months from now that would be one thing, but you're talking about DS from THOUSANDS of years in the future.

starking African nipple cobra

Originally posted by darthgoober
No I'm comparing tic tack toe to DS beating his older version in physical combat(which he didn't even technically do).

Wrong because Prof X is a telepath and Mr. Fantasic is not. But I'm pretty sure that if you took today's Prof X and had him have an all out TP battle with an older version that for some reason had lived for thousands of years and thus had thousands of years into the future and thus had more experience in tp combat and tp in genera, "todays" Prof X would get his ass kicked even if his "younger" self was able to punch his "older" self out.

By the same token, if you took the Prof. X of today and pitted him against himself from 30 years ago, the younger version would get his ass kicked do to the older version having more experience.

But it IS an alternate future version, that's the whole point. Current DS NEVER experienced the GDS and because of COIE and many other events that have happened, he likely never will. Thus he's DS from an ALTERNATE future. If you were talking about DS from a couple of months from now that would be one thing, but you're talking about DS from THOUSANDS of years in the future.

The point is Ds defeated his older self. Say what you want, but the story made it clear that current Darkseid was more powerful. Darkseid should still remember what he did that day, so you can quit saying it's an alternate timeline. Their's still no way proving that the future Darkseid, posses greater tp. It's all speculation, and can't be proven. Ds stands outside of the rest of the Dc universe, and the Zero hour retcon, was just temporal to him, meaning he still met his older self.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by starking
The point is Ds defeated his older self. Say what you want, but the story made it clear that current Darkseid was more powerful.

Yeah...PHYSICALLY. Don't forget that Hulk beat HIS future self also(Maestro), so do we now credit Hulk with all of Maestro's feats?

Originally posted by starking

Darkseid should still remember whta he did that day, so you can quit saying it's an alternate timeline.

But does he remember everything he did in the GDS from a first person perspective? If the answer's no then it's an alternate FUTURE. And since that future will likely never come about because of COIE and all of DS's other major events, it's an alternate timeline(meaning a universe where things happened differently).

Originally posted by starking

Their's still no way proving that the future Darkseid, posses greater tp. It's all speculation, and can't be proven.

There's also no proof that current DS has tp equal to his older version. So what...your only accepting speculation that makes DS's current incarnation look good? Because as I already pointed out...

Originally posted by darthgoober
But I'm pretty sure that if you took today's Prof X and had him have an all out TP battle with an older version that for some reason had lived for thousands of years and thus had thousands of years into the future and thus had more experience in tp combat and tp in genera, "todays" Prof X would get his ass kicked even if his "younger" self was able to punch his "older" self out.

By the same token, if you took the Prof. X of today and pitted him against himself from 30 years ago, the younger version would get his ass kicked do to the older version having more experience.

Originally posted by starking

Ds stands outside of the rest of the Dc universe, and the Zero hour retcon, was just temporal to him, meaning he still met his older self.

I'm not denying that he met his older self. I'm saying that he hasn't lived the life of his older self and therefor the feats of his older self have no bearing on DS's current incarnation.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by starking
The point is Ds defeated his older self. Say what you want, but the story made it clear that current Darkseid was more powerful. Darkseid should still remember what he did that day, so you can quit saying it's an alternate timeline. Their's still no way proving that the future Darkseid, posses greater tp. It's all speculation, and can't be proven. Ds stands outside of the rest of the Dc universe, and the Zero hour retcon, was just temporal to him, meaning he still met his older self.
he is still arguing darkseid killed his older self. give it up already. its in the future meaning it hasnt occurred yet. it might happen but it is doubtful. dc continuity isnt in the 30 th century yet. quit counting it. geez ur like brainwashed.

starking African nipple cobra

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah...PHYSICALLY. Don't forget that Hulk beat HIS future self also(Maestro), so do we now credit Hulk with all of Maestro's feats?

But does he remember everything he did in the GDS from a first person perspective? If the answer's no then it's an alternate FUTURE. And since that future will likely never come about because of COIE and all of DS's other major events, it's an alternate timeline(meaning a universe where things happened differently).

There's also no proof that current DS has tp equal to his older version. So what...your only accepting speculation that makes DS's current incarnation look good? Because as I already pointed out...

I'm not denying that he met his older self. I'm saying that he hasn't lived the life of his older self and therefor the feats of his older self have no bearing on DS's current incarnation.

The point is, the more current version of Darkseid is supposed to be more powerful then Gds Darkseid. It was proven by his older self admitting it, and him beating Gds Darkseid. No matter how you look at it, it's still impressive.
If your powerful enough to defeat Gds Darkseid, or for the matter give any kind of trouble, then you have to be pretty uber. The story made it pretty obvious, that current Darkseid was superior in virtually every way. And Quanchi, do yourself a favor, and stay on the sideline, while you masturbate to Thanos's chin. Your a petty fool, and you hide behind Darthgoober's back.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by starking
The point is, the more current version of Darkseid is supposed to be more powerful then Gds Darkseid. It was proven by his older self admitting it, and him beating Gds Darkseid. No matter how you look at it, it's still impressive.
If your powerful enough to defeat Gds Darkseid, or for the matter give any kind of trouble, then you have to be pretty uber. The story made it pretty obvious, that current Darkseid was superior in virtually every way. And Quanchi, do yourself a favor, and stay on the sideline, while you masturbate to Thanos's chin. Your a petty fool, and you hide behind Darthgoober's back.
yeah right. its called i was watching the cavs game and u still pick and choose which of darkseids feats count. it doesnt count and even if it did dummy he absored the powers of two badasses which means he was amped up... u lose

starking African nipple cobra

Originally posted by quanchi112
yeah right. its called i was watching the cavs game and u still pick and choose which of darkseids feats count. it doesnt count and even if it did dummy he absored the powers of two badasses which means he was amped up... u lose
😆 😆 😆
You are so retarded, and I'm not going to waste my time with you. Let me debate with Darhgoober, and back the f#ck off.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by starking
😆 😆 😆
You are so retarded, and I'm not going to waste my time with you. Let me debate with Darhgoober, and back the f#ck off.
good one, dork. i still dont know how u always get this crap started. u always get people arguing over his feats. this is a one on one matcup between odin and darkseid tardie. so unless u think he mindctronls him to win the fight, shut the fu-- up about it already. go tell someone who cares darkseids feats. thats all u do on these vs threads tell people darkseids feats. u are so lame.

starking African nipple cobra

Originally posted by quanchi112
good one, dork. i still dont know how u always get this crap started. u always get people arguing over his feats. this is a one on one matcup between odin and darkseid tardie. so unless u think he mindctronls him to win the fight, shut the fu-- up about it already. go tell someone who cares darkseids feats. thats all u do on these vs threads tell people darkseids feats. u are so lame.
I said back the f#ck off, as in leave me the hell alone. Your a hypocrit, a moron, a Thanos fanboy, and a troll. Keep your shitty little opinions to yourself, because you have nothing intelligent to say.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by starking
I said back the f#ck off, as in leave me the hell alone. Your a hypocrit, a moron, a Thanos fanboy, and a troll. Keep your shitty little opinions to yourself, because you have nothing intelligent to say.
last time i checked this was an odin vs darkseid debate not another one of ur darkseid respect threads. thats all u want to do is post darkseid feats. when u start having something else to contribute to the argument other than posting feats get back to me. until then bye

starking African nipple cobra

Originally posted by quanchi112
last time i checked this was an odin vs darkseid debate not another one of ur darkseid respect threads. thats all u want to do is post darkseid feats. when u start having something else to contribute to the argument other than posting feats get back to me. until then bye
Listen dumbass, I wasn't debating with you. I was debating with Darthgoober, not a retarded Thanos lover. Personally, I think Darkseid can take Odin, 6/10, due to the power of the oe. That's my opinion and you can't argue against it. Now shut up, and leave the debating to the people who aren't delusional retards.

quanchi112 Disney

Originally posted by starking
Listen dumbass, I wasn't debating with you. I was debating with Darthgoober, not a retarded Thanos lover. Personally, I think Darkseid can take Odin, 6/10, due to the power of the oe. That's my opinion and you can't argue against it. Now shut up, and leave the debating to the people who aren't delusional retards.
then why are u debating u are the biggest delusional tard on these forums. u say supes victories dont count but count some bullcrap that happens in the 30th century. sounds pretty convenient for ur case. 🙄 oh thats right u have no case. its just feat after feat whether it is relevant or not to the thread at hand. STARKING LOGIC:
DARKSEID COULD MINDCONTROL U OR WAVE HIS HAND TO WIN THIS BATTLE AGAINST ODIN, I MEAN HELL HE HURT THE SPECTRE. anyone else: didnt batman hurt the spectre also and his showings arent anywhere near consistent.
STARKINGS RESPNSE: HES THE SPECTRE AND DARKSEID IS A PART OF THE SOURCE SO DARKSEID WINS CUZ THE SOURCE IS GREATER THAN THE SPECTRE.
anyone else: uh it seems like u twist things to make darkseid look awesome, what do u say about his superman losses.
STARKINGS RESPONSE🙁WAITS FOR TRICKTSER TO BAIL HIM OUT, THEN REALIZES HES NOT ONLINE) SO HE REALIZES HE MUST BE BRAVE AND ANSWERS ON HIS OWN:THEY DONT COUNT, CUZ JEPH LEOB IS A FAKE WRITER AND HAD A SUPERMAN SHIRT ON UNDERNEATH THE WHOLE TIME WRITING THE COMIC. IT DOESNT COUNT/ NEXT QUESTION(DAMMIT WHERE IS TRICKSTER, HE KNOWS BETTER THAN TO LEAVE ME ALONE ON HERE I GET SCARED.
anyone else :im leaving ur crazy
STARKING: SEE YOU LATER TROLL I WON.

starking African nipple cobra

Originally posted by quanchi112
then why are u debating u are the biggest delusional tard on these forums. u say supes victories dont count but count some bullcrap that happens in the 30th century. sounds pretty convenient for ur case. 🙄 oh thats right u have no case. its just feat after feat whether it is relevant or not to the thread at hand. STARKING LOGIC:
DARKSEID COULD MINDCONTROL U OR WAVE HIS HAND TO WIN THIS BATTLE AGAINST ODIN, I MEAN HELL HE HURT THE SPECTRE. anyone else: didnt batman hurt the spectre also and his showings arent anywhere near consistent.
STARKINGS RESPNSE: HES THE SPECTRE AND DARKSEID IS A PART OF THE SOURCE SO DARKSEID WINS CUZ THE SOURCE IS GREATER THAN THE SPECTRE.
anyone else: uh it seems like u twist things to make darkseid look awesome, what do u say about his superman losses.
STARKINGS RESPONSE🙁WAITS FOR TRICKTSER TO BAIL HIM OUT, THEN REALIZES HES NOT ONLINE) SO HE REALIZES HE MUST BE BRAVE AND ANSWERS ON HIS OWN:THEY DONT COUNT, CUZ JEPH LEOB IS A FAKE WRITER AND HAD A SUPERMAN SHIRT ON UNDERNEATH THE WHOLE TIME WRITING THE COMIC. IT DOESNT COUNT/ NEXT QUESTION(DAMMIT WHERE IS TRICKSTER, HE KNOWS BETTER THAN TO LEAVE ME ALONE ON HERE I GET SCARED.
anyone else :im leaving ur crazy
STARKING: SEE YOU LATER TROLL I WON.
Since you keep on resonding to me, regardless of me telling you to back off, then I am going to assume your a attention whore. I've already debated with Darthgoober, and showed that I can respond for myself. I, or noone else have nothing to prove to you, so keep your pathetic trolling to yourself.

quanchi112 Disney

no that was an honest prtrayal of u on this forum. u try to count things that havent happeend yet by saying it could and will happen.. no it hasnt and probably wont. what if accomplishments dont count so why should this. its like the one thanos what if where u say him after won the infifnity gauntlet fighting with maelstrom. well i could say thanos conquered the universe twice according to ur logic. unless it has occurred u dont count soemthing, ok. end of story. its hard to teach u things. so i dont count the great darkness feat becuz until it happens in continuity and isnt some possible future story it doesnt count.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by starking
The point is, the more current version of Darkseid is supposed to be more powerful then Gds Darkseid. It was proven by his older self admitting it, and him beating Gds Darkseid. No matter how you look at it, it's still impressive.

His older self said that the younger DS was PHYSICALLY more powerful, that's all. And that IS impressive(I'm not trying to say otherwise), I'm just saying that being superior physically doesn't necessarily mean that your capable of all the same feats. If you pulled Dr. Strange from the future and he was old and physically weakened then "current" Dr. Strange would kick his ass in a fist fight. That in NO way, shape, or form means that the current Strange would be superior in sorcery OR tp combat against an older, more experienced Strange.

Originally posted by starking

If your powerful enough to defeat Gds Darkseid, or for the matter give any kind of trouble, then you have to be pretty uber. The story made it pretty obvious, that current Darkseid was superior in virtually every way.

Yes current DS IS pretty uber, I'm not trying to deny that. But there's NO proof that DS was superior to his alternate self anyway but physically.

Bottom line, until DS actually experiences the GDS for himself his feats from the arc aren't valid because he hasn't actually done them yet.

darthgoober Senior Member

This debate is actually completely unnecessary because everything I'm saying is backed by forum rules...

Originally posted by DigiMark007
No Bias Claims
"Batman can beat Thor because he's cooler!" That's an example of how not to debate. We would like to see the rationale behind any claims that one character can beat the other rather than a claim based on popularity and subjective bias.
Also, we insist that all claims be backed up by evidence from canon sources. If you claim that Spiderman is stronger than Superman, then you have to prove it.

So where is the proof that DS is equal/superior to his future self in ANY way other than physically(which is all that's actually established in that story)?

Originally posted by DigiMark007

No Non-canon Sources
Non-canon sources are invalid for evidence. With rare exceptions, comics not in continuity such as Elseworlds, What Ifs, or alternate universes are not used for evidence in debates of a particular mainstream character.

A canon source is one that is regarded as being 'in continuity'. In the example of Star Trek; instances from the series and movies can be used, but books are definitely out. Comic book crossovers are usually unusable as they ignore common sense most of the time (DC vs. Marvel is certainly unusable in some cases in our debates!).

GDS takes place in an alternate future from the rest of the DC universe. That means that while it's cannon to itself, it's NOT cannon to current DS's abilities. Until he actually experiences the GDS for himself, NOTHING that happened in that story has ANY bearing on DS's current abilities under forum rules.

starking African nipple cobra

Originally posted by darthgoober
His older self said that the younger DS was PHYSICALLY more powerful, that's all. And that IS impressive(I'm not trying to say otherwise), I'm just saying that being superior physically doesn't necessarily mean that your capable of all the same feats. If you pulled Dr. Strange from the future and he was old and physically weakened then "current" Dr. Strange would kick his ass in a fist fight. That in NO way, shape, or form means that the current Strange would be superior in sorcery OR tp combat against an older, more experienced Strange.

Yes current DS IS pretty uber, I'm not trying to deny that. But there's NO proof that DS was superior to his alternate self anyway but physically.

Bottom line, until DS actually experiences the GDS for himself his feats from the arc aren't valid because he hasn't actually done them yet.

It's also speculation to say older Darkseid's a greater telepath. Unless he said he was a superior telepathically, then their's absolutely no basis to it. The Gds feats belong to Ds, for he wasn't effected by the crisis. The Great darkness saga is still canon for Darkseid, for the Zero hour retcon is merely a temporal change for the 4th world. If a timeline is changed, then it doesn't take away from one's power or abilities. Their's no way of proving it can, but their is a way proving it can't.

darthgoober Senior Member

Originally posted by starking
It's also speculation to say older Darkseid's a greater telepath. Unless he said he was a superior telepathically, then their's absolutely no basis to it. The Gds feats belong to Ds, for he wasn't effected by the crisis. The Great darkness saga is still canon for Darkseid, for the Zero hour retcon is merely a temporal change for the 4th world. If a timeline is changed, then it doesn't take away from one's power or abilities. Their's no way of proving it can, but their is a way proving it can't.

Again...
Originally posted by darthgoober
This debate is actually completely unnecessary because everything I'm saying is backed by forum rules...

So where is the proof that DS is equal/superior to his future self in ANY way other than physically(which is all that's actually established in that story)?

GDS takes place in an alternate future from the rest of the DC universe. That means that while it's cannon to itself, it's NOT cannon to current DS's abilities. Until he actually experiences the GDS for himself, NOTHING that happened in that story has ANY bearing on DS's current abilities under forum rules.