Magneto vs The Hulk

"Most people agree that Savage Hulk is the most powerful version of Hulk, and this "intelligent" Hulk that you're pitting against Magneto isn't as strong. Perhaps I'm wrong and he HAS become "lightyears" more powerful...but name some feats to back up that observation."

I never suggested he has done anything in a single feat that tops holding up a mountain. Such things as becoming less vulnerable to impact damage. I've seen Hulk back in the day get hit with very very very large projectile objects and be knocked down or moved etc. Today, a top speed steam train cannot hurt him. Today, being shot point blank in the head as Banner, cannot kill him. Maybe the phrase I was looking for is that the displaying of his power is greater than before. An obvious reason for this would be, shock horror, because he's reached new levels of power. Also, speaking of secret wars, Magneto has it has been pointed out, almost had a coronary whilst trying to make a comb. Lets not forget about that.

"Yes"

You know this how? I find it quite impossible that you can predict exactly what attack Magneto would use, how he'd use it and why.

"Disrupting electrical impulses: X-men 72, when he killed Odekirk by rendering him braindead."

With all due respect, Odekirk isn't the Hulk. Hulk's brain functions very differently to most peoples. He has had run in's with psychics, these are people who specialise ****ing up your brain, and had marginal effect.

"Destroying nervous systems: Excalibur #9, upcoming issue, when he manifests his power and "destroys everything with a nervous system""

Against a monster immune to....5...no 6...no every disease, every poison, every toxin. I think his nervous system is probably stronger than mine, yours and Odekirks. HOW does he destroy nervous systems? Are you gonna guess or are you gonna show me proof that he does it in a way that will actually work, not just pretend it works?

"Taking over electrical impulses: X-men 18, he re-programs Warren's parents minds using his own power"

See above part relating to mind power.

"As for why he doesn't have more triumphs, victories, etc....he's a VILLAIN. It's the villains job to lose. If most of the villains used their powers to its fullest, all the heroes would be dead and that would be the end of Marvel Comics."

Hulk is no hero though. Let's look at his victories: Abomination (once almost killing him), Spider-Man, Iron-Man, Wolverine, Thor due to a technicality (Thor actually couldn't harm him at all, no matter what so he gave up). If Magneto defeating Phoenix was an argument you were prepared to use, let's see Magneto Vs Thor. Thor would obliterate him. This is a God who couldn't lay a scratch on the Hulk at this point. So opponents and victories do count because he's no hero, if you say Villains are designed to lose.

"And he's affect energy on a planetary level. He doesn't HAVE to absorb the energy, he just has to dispurse it. it doesn't require an enormous feat. We're not talking about Rogue or Bishop or Crusher Creel absorbing Hulk and overloading, here. We're talking about Magneto removing Hulk's gamma energy and sending it anywhere he wants except at the Hulk. It requires no unusual feat of power that's beyond Magneto's capabilities. None at all."

Ok agreed, he could disperse it. This was never disputed. In the Future Imperfect saga Maestro talked about Hulk's ability to absorb energy. Gamma energy. So what's to say he wouldn't absorb it back?

"And given that Mags isn't the only person to absorb Hulk's energy, turning him into Banner, I'd hardly say that Hulk's gamma source is infinite. It REPLENISHES, but he can be drained to the point where he transformed. I can start naming times when it's happened too, so it's no huge feat."

When he fought Abomination he changed back into Banner inexplicably. He smacked Abomination in the mouth (Yes, Banner) and then changed right back into Hulk. At this point I'm gonna voice something you may not be considering AKA aren't considering. I don't doubt Magneto's ability to drain the energy, at all. However, if draining Hulk's energy was a prolific way of bringing him to a halt when a fight has actually been planned or kicked off, how many fights would he actually have had? Magneto has the ability over all things related to the electromagnetic spectrum which includes gamma-rays. Agreed. However, he ALWAYS...ALWAYS uses Magnetism and control over metals. Always. So what's to say his power or ability to control something that's he's had to control all of once, hasn't gone or diminished? Silver Surfer has the ability to control every molecule in existance. He could turn the Hulk into mush in seconds. As Vic said, Molecule Man is in theory the most powerful there is. However, the liklihood that they will every use these powers to that extent is almost definately not. The easy way out is not necessarily the way fights go and that is the way you are putting it out to be. "Magneto drains Hulk. Hulk loses."

-AC

this could be another very... very long thread... some good points being brought up but i still think hulk could take him 😉 i might post something else up later.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I never suggested he has done anything in a single feat that tops holding up a mountain. Such things as becoming less vulnerable to impact damage. I've seen Hulk back in the day get hit with very very very large projectile objects and be knocked down or moved etc. Today, a top speed steam train cannot hurt him.

You're telling me that not being hurt by a top speed steam train today impresses you more than Hulk being hit by projectiles like missles and just moving? He'd HAVE to move if he were hit by a missle - simple inertia guarantees that - Hulk is only 900 lbs or somesuch. Projectiles like missles hit with FAR greater impact than a train because of its speed. But he's not been hurt by either, in the past or now. Both of those feats are comparable to each other - that's not evidence of some "lightyears" power up that you're suggesting. I'd say being nailed by missles and emerging unhurt is at least as impressive as being hit with a train and not being run over. It's a lot more impressive, actually.

What else? What observations have been made by opponents who said, "Wow, you're more powerful than I remember", what observations by scientists have stated, "He's containing more gamma than ever!". People have observed such power ups in Magneto, what has shown that wiht the Hulk? It seems Magneto has evolved far more than the Hulk has, if Magneto has evolved from simple control over metals to being able to black out the earth and Hulk has "evolved" from surviving hits from missles to surviving hits from trains.

Today, being shot point blank in the head as Banner, cannot kill him.

It was noted that it's because Banner has learned to harness some of the Hulk's power. It has nothing to do with a power up. It's a power shift, like Grey Hulk, or Professor Hulk or Merged Hulk. What does that have to do with increased retention of gamma energy?

Maybe the phrase I was looking for is that the displaying of his power is greater than before.

An obvious reason for this would be, shock horror, because he's reached new levels of power.

Also, speaking of secret wars, Magneto has it has been pointed out, almost had a coronary whilst trying to make a comb. Lets not forget about that.

That's an excellent point. He's gone from struggling to create a comb to being able to black out the earth to creating a WORMHOLE that bends space and time. Now THAT'S a powerup. Give me an example like THAT, and I'll believe that Hulk has powered up more than Magneto.

"Yes"

You know this how? I find it quite impossible that you can predict exactly what attack Magneto would use, how he'd use it and why.

This is a fight board, isn't it? Isn't it the function of the fight board to determine how we think a fight would play out based upon what we know about characters' powers? If I KNOW that Magneto can absorb energy, and I KNOW that Magneto has beaten the Hulk by absorbing his energy, and I KNOW that Magneto is more powerful now than ever, when discussing a rematch, why on earth wouldn't I cite what he's done successfully in a past match in a theoretical match? And if Magneto has done that to Hulk in the past with success, why on earth would he try something different? Of course I can say "yes"! Every bit of evidence says so!

"Disrupting electrical impulses: X-men 72, when he killed Odekirk by rendering him braindead."

With all due respect, Odekirk isn't the Hulk. Hulk's brain functions very differently to most peoples. He has had run in's with psychics, these are people who specialise ****ing up your brain, and had marginal effect.

Functions differently how? It doesn't use electrical impulses??? He's been telepathically affected just fine. Both Cable and Xavier have done it. His MIND is different from normal people's because it houses Hulk(s) and Banner, but his brain is his brain, and his physiology has proven to be just like anyone else's. He needs to breathe like anyone else. He has a heartbeat like anyone else. He bleeds like anyone else. He has a brain like anyone else. He thinks like anyone else. Has has far, far greater durability any anyone else, so it's hard to make him bleed or to damage his heart, but it's still blood flowing, and a heart beating. So he has a severe case of multiple personality disorder, but there's absolutely nothing to even remotely hint that his brain is devoid of electrical impulses.

"Destroying nervous systems: Excalibur #9, upcoming issue, when he manifests his power and "destroys everything with a nervous system""

Against a monster immune to....5...no 6...no every disease, every poison, every toxin. I think his nervous system is probably stronger than mine, yours and Odekirks. HOW does he destroy nervous systems? Are you gonna guess or are you gonna show me proof that he does it in a way that will actually work, not just pretend it works?

His immunity to disease has nothing to do with his nervous system. That's his immune system, which is completely different. He's a rapid healer, which means that he's immune to things and that he can recover from the damage Magneto does to his nervous system, but that doesn't mean that he's immune to damage. Magneto is bypassing Hulk's physical might and attacking its components. Storm, in Hulk 444, was able to STOP and later RE-START Hulk's heart with a jolt of electricity. That PROVES that he has a nervous system like anyone else, because those electrical impulses are necessary to keep Hulk's body running, just like anybody else.

By the way, Magneto controls electricty too. He used in X-men 150. No reason why he couldn't stop Hulk's heart too, if Storm did it.

"Taking over electrical impulses: X-men 18, he re-programs Warren's parents minds using his own power"

See above part relating to mind power.

See above part with my response.

"As for why he doesn't have more triumphs, victories, etc....he's a VILLAIN. It's the villains job to lose. If most of the villains used their powers to its fullest, all the heroes would be dead and that would be the end of Marvel Comics."

Hulk is no hero though. Let's look at his victories: Abomination (once almost killing him), Spider-Man, Iron-Man, Wolverine, Thor due to a technicality (Thor actually couldn't harm him at all, no matter what so he gave up). If Magneto defeating Phoenix was an argument you were prepared to use, let's see Magneto Vs Thor. Thor would obliterate him. This is a God who couldn't lay a scratch on the Hulk at this point. So opponents and victories do count because he's no hero, if you say Villains are designed to lose.

I can name a bunch of Magneto victories too, but you said it yourself, person A beating person B and person B beating person C doesn't mean that person A can beat person C. So the victory list is irrevelant. Hulk is uniquely vulnerable to Magneto because of the nature of his power source.

And you reminded me of another powerup, thanks. Magneto was beaten by Thor in their first fight. Many years later, he beat Thor AND the Avengers, by taking control of mjolnir. POWER UP.

Ok agreed, he could disperse it. This was never disputed. In the Future Imperfect saga Maestro talked about Hulk's ability to absorb energy. Gamma energy. So what's to say he wouldn't absorb it back?

I remember that issue. Meastro was talking about Hulk being a living battery for gamma radiation. He was referring specifically to it in the context of Hulk being able to absorb infinite gamma radiation directed at him to become more and more powerful. He wasn't referring to some heretofore unseen ability to consciously manipulate gamma energy and draw it to himself. You're reaching here. If Magneto absorbs the energy or disperses it, it's gone. He'd have to DIRECT gamma radiation at the Hulk for the Hulk to absorb it.

"And given that Mags isn't the only person to absorb Hulk's energy, turning him into Banner, I'd hardly say that Hulk's gamma source is infinite. It REPLENISHES, but he can be drained to the point where he transformed. I can start naming times when it's happened too, so it's no huge feat."

When he fought Abomination he changed back into Banner inexplicably. He smacked Abomination in the mouth (Yes, Banner) and then changed right back into Hulk.

Yes, I remember that. But again, that had nothing to do with gamma power. That was all psychological. He was willing himself to change, first subconsciously, then consciously. His gamma levels didn't change (because he kept his strength).

At this point I'm gonna voice something you may not be considering AKA aren't considering. I don't doubt Magneto's ability to drain the energy, at all. However, if draining Hulk's energy was a prolific way of bringing him to a halt when a fight has actually been planned or kicked off, how many fights would he actually have had?

I don't get the question. Are you asking if people could drain his energy, why haven't they done it or something? It's been done. Silver Surfer, Quasar, Magneto, Jack of Hearts. I mean, it's actually fairly routine against energy manipulators.

Magneto has the ability over all things related to the electromagnetic spectrum which includes gamma-rays. Agreed. However, he ALWAYS...ALWAYS uses Magnetism and control over metals. Always. So what's to say his power or ability to control something that's he's had to control all of once, hasn't gone or diminished?

Uh...because he's become MORE powerful?

Most characters have lots of powers they don't use because it's not always necessary. It's not like Magneto fights gamma-powered opponents all the time. Hulk has superbreath and thunderclaps. He doesn't use that every issue, either. He doesn't ALWAYS ALWAYS use control over metals. He's controlled blood all the time. His creation of wormholes happened last month. He's manipulated electrical impulses as recently as two months ago in Excalibur when he re-programmed that Sentinel-woman. You trying to say he powered down and lost the ability to do these things within the last two months?

Silver Surfer has the ability to control every molecule in existance. He could turn the Hulk into mush in seconds. As Vic said, Molecule Man is in theory the most powerful there is. However, the liklihood that they will every use these powers to that extent is almost definately not.

Of course not, because then their opponents would be dead and that would be the end of that character. I agree that a lot of characters don't fight to their potential. So what are you telling me, to limit the fight to Magneto hurling metals at Hulk because using his abilities to its fullest extent is unfair?

What would be unfair and unrealistic is if I said that Magneto could molecularly tear Hulk apart like he did to Apocalypse in AOA. Could he do it? Yes. but it would require so much concentration and so much energy to take control of Hulk at a molecular level that it's impractical, so I didn't bring it up. But doing what he already did is by no means an unreasonable use of his power.

The easy way out is not necessarily the way fights go and that is the way you are putting it out to be. "Magneto drains Hulk. Hulk loses."

Except there's precedent for it. If someone's done something before and it worked, why on earth wouldn't they do it again? It's the logical course of action. I'm not naming some off-the-wall, never-been-done-before mega theoretical technique of Magneto's. I'm naming things Magneto has done before. And these are all things Hulk has no defense against. It's a mismatch, not just against Magneto, but against all energy manipulators. Hulk has a terrible track record against them (see above list).

Sorry it took so long.

"What else? What observations have been made by opponents who said, "Wow, you're more powerful than I remember", what observations by scientists have stated, "He's containing more gamma than ever!". People have observed such power ups in Magneto, what has shown that wiht the Hulk? It seems Magneto has evolved far more than the Hulk has, if Magneto has evolved from simple control over metals to being able to black out the earth and Hulk has "evolved" from surviving hits from missles to surviving hits from trains."

I never stated any scientists had said anything. Iron-Man noted how strong Hulk was when they fought last and they had already fought before.

"It was noted that it's because Banner has learned to harness some of the Hulk's power. It has nothing to do with a power up. It's a power shift, like Grey Hulk, or Professor Hulk or Merged Hulk. What does that have to do with increased retention of gamma energy?"

We obviously have different definition of the term power-up. I understood you to be saying sort of an evolution in power or learning a new ability. Developing new ability. Not getting it through other means.

"And even if you do believe that being hit by a train is more impressive than being hit by missles, that's hardly evidence that he's "lightyears" more powerful and has so much more gamma energy in his body that he's gone from Magneto draining him dry to Magneto suddenly being helpless."

Well ok so I went a bit over the top with the term light years. It's a conscious and common evolution. Comics characters naturally get better as time goes on unless they are shit and random. Well known or actually good characters don't stay at the same level the whole time for the most part. That's canon also. If they did, would there be any point in continuing a series?

"That's an excellent point. He's gone from struggling to create a comb to being able to black out the earth to creating a WORMHOLE that bends space and time. Now THAT'S a powerup. Give me an example like THAT, and I'll believe that Hulk has powered up more than Magneto."

As alot of the posts in your first post were to do with power and comparisons of such, I've only quoted one but will cover all. Yeah Magneto can do all that. So? It's an amazing power but:

Magneto: *David Blaine levitation and hand wave* Wormmmholllle!
Hulk: *Punch*

He's dead. While we're being theoretical, Magneto could create a wormhole and do all you said. You've all said "He'll be flying, he'll be at distance, he'll have a forcefield." Helicopters fly, Hulk can hit them. Helicopters dodge, Hulk has caught them. While we're on the topic of forcefield, Hulk in theory has limitless strength. So can conceivably crush anything, including a forcefield. Just as you are saying that theoretically Magneto would do all this. When he does, it's safe to say Magneto is done. Hulk WOULD get to him, sure Magneto can dodge but so can Spider-Man. Hulk still whooped him. As for Magneto going into space and fighting from there, I just don't think that is likely.

"Storm, in Hulk 444, was able to STOP and later RE-START Hulk's heart with a jolt of electricity."

Jolt of electricity? Well...last time I checked, in that issue. Hulk was beating 8 kinds of shit out of Storm and Cable and she charged up the biggest lightning bolt ever and hit him directly with it. It was a desperation maneuver coz he was whooping them both. It wasn't a "jolt". She didn't extend her pinkie and go "Bzzzt". So to make it out as such, is unfair.

"You're reaching here. If Magneto absorbs the energy or disperses it, it's gone. He'd have to DIRECT gamma radiation at the Hulk for the Hulk to absorb it.............. Silver Surfer, Quasar, Magneto, Jack of Hearts. I mean, it's actually fairly routine against energy manipulators."

Yeah he could absorb the Hulk's energy. Hulk's power HAS been drained. People have also tried and failed. Tried and got overloaded. Trauma's father tried it. Trauma did also, he died. Theoretically even DRAWING that much power out of the Hulk is gonna take it's toll heavily on his power. Surfer got caught in an encounter with Hulk and Hulk started thwack-hitting him around with his own board. The point is, energy manipulator or not, if he just says:

"Hahaha taking your energy" *Saps*

Hulk, would (coz as you said, fight thread) go "Nah. Got more left." So what happens then? Magneto keeps dispersing? Coz he can't absorb. Will die for sure.

I have more to say on your post, not actually done. Can you give me the issue number where Magneto drains Hulk's energy and turns him back to Banner, I don't appear to own it and I would like to check it out. Coz I own hundreds of Hulk's and can't recall that. So before I go on with the rest, just wanna check that out.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Sorry it took so long.

Don't you sleep? I'm going to bed after this! lol.

"What else? What observations have been made by opponents who said, "Wow, you're more powerful than I remember", what observations by scientists have stated, "He's containing more gamma than ever!". People have observed such power ups in Magneto, what has shown that wiht the Hulk? It seems Magneto has evolved far more than the Hulk has, if Magneto has evolved from simple control over metals to being able to black out the earth and Hulk has "evolved" from surviving hits from missles to surviving hits from trains."

I never stated any scientists had said anything. Iron-Man noted how strong Hulk was when they fought last and they had already fought before.

True, but he didn't say "StrongER". That's key. No one has observed that he's become more powerful. But I won't harp on that point becauuuussse....

We obviously have different definition of the term power-up. I understood you to be saying sort of an evolution in power or learning a new ability. Developing new ability. Not getting it through other means.

You mentioned here that you didn't really mean that he became more powerful, he just evolved in the use of his power. Which I can accept.

Well ok so I went a bit over the top with the term light years. It's a conscious and common evolution. Comics characters naturally get better as time goes on unless they are shit and random. Well known or actually good characters don't stay at the same level the whole time for the most part. That's canon also. If they did, would there be any point in continuing a series?

You'll get no argument from me here, either. BUT, even though we can agree that Hulk's USE of his powers has evolved over time, that still leaves vulnerable your contention that he's retaining more gamma radiation than Magneto is capable of controlling, despite the fact that it wasn't more gamma radiation that Magneto was capable of controlling in the past. What about evolving to control his power in different ways would suggest so much of a gamma energy increase that it would overwhelm Magneto in a way that it did not in the past? You'd have to cite specific evidence of an actual increase in gamma radiation in his body, or a monumental increase in power that would suggest a corresponding increase in gamma radiation that would somehow be beyond Magneto's ability to control. All the power ups you've cited are subtle and skill-based, not monumental and gamma-based.

As alot of the posts in your first post were to do with power and comparisons of such, I've only quoted one but will cover all. Yeah Magneto can do all that. So? It's an amazing power but:

Magneto: *David Blaine levitation and hand wave* Wormmmholllle!
Hulk: *Punch*

heh. My point in mentioning that is that it shows a MONUMENTAL INCREASE in control over EM energy. One of your counter-points was that the 80s issue doesn't apply because 1)Hulk's power has increased "lightyears" (which you've since retracted) and 2)Magneto has shown no ability to exert that kind of energy control. I addressed 1. at the top of the thread, and used the wormhole as supporting evidence for 2. I'm not saying he'd create a wormhole against the Hulk, just that if Magneto can harness enough EM energy to warp time and space...I have A LOT of trouble buying that controlling Hulk's gamma wavelength of EM energy is somehow more difficult. Scientists routinely do the latter with very basic magnetic manipulators. They've yet to do the former.

He's dead. While we're being theoretical, Magneto could create a wormhole and do all you said. You've all said "He'll be flying, he'll be at distance, he'll have a forcefield." Helicopters fly, Hulk can hit them. Helicopters dodge, Hulk has caught them. While we're on the topic of forcefield, Hulk in theory has limitless strength. So can conceivably crush anything, including a forcefield. Just as you are saying that theoretically Magneto would do all this. When he does, it's safe to say Magneto is done. Hulk WOULD get to him, sure Magneto can dodge but so can Spider-Man. Hulk still whooped him. As for Magneto going into space and fighting from there, I just don't think that is likely.

Magneto has taken multiple hits from Thor before, who is Hulk's peer. I have no doubt that Hulk could get through eventually if Magneto just stood there. But Hulk would be fighting an active target who is defending himself AND exerting magnetic offense. A side effect of regulating Hulk's brainwaves is that it would moderate his behavior. Magneto did this against Bishop before. He'd essentially be calming Hulk, modifying the electrical impulses in his brain and preventing him from getting angry enough to access his "infinite" strength and keeping him at a manageable level.

As for taking out flying targets, Hulk can jump up to three miles high. Magneto flies at four miles up and has fun. Hulk can throw things at Magneto, but that's easily blocked. Hulk could possible even sonic clap towards the sky, but that too is easily blocked. Those are really Hulks only options, and neither of them are too intimidating to someone who has deflected nuclear explosions.

I think, in the end, Magneto just seems to have a lot more options at his disposal than the Hulk, who is limited to trying to chase Magneto around and land a punch. Thor is a harder opponent for Magneto because Thor can fly and has many, many long range attacks. Hulk doesn't have that kind of versitility. That's really what kills him here.

"Storm, in Hulk 444, was able to STOP and later RE-START Hulk's heart with a jolt of electricity."

Jolt of electricity? Well...last time I checked, in that issue. Hulk was beating 8 kinds of shit out of Storm and Cable and she charged up the biggest lightning bolt ever and hit him directly with it. It was a desperation maneuver coz he was whooping them both. It wasn't a "jolt". She didn't extend her pinkie and go "Bzzzt". So to make it out as such, is unfair.

ok. REALLY BIG JOLT. Ultimate jolt! My point wasn't the kind of power it took to cause cardiac arrest in the Hulk. My point was that if electricity were to work at all on the Hulk in that manner that he has a standard electricity-based impulse nervous system. Issue 444 proves that. And if he has an electricity-based impulse nervous system and Magneto gets his hands on it....

"You're reaching here. If Magneto absorbs the energy or disperses it, it's gone. He'd have to DIRECT gamma radiation at the Hulk for the Hulk to absorb it.............. Silver Surfer, Quasar, Magneto, Jack of Hearts. I mean, it's actually fairly routine against energy manipulators."

Yeah he could absorb the Hulk's energy. Hulk's power HAS been drained. People have also tried and failed. Tried and got overloaded. Trauma's father tried it. Trauma did also, he died.

Yeah, they both made the mistake of absorbing it into themselves and it was too much energy.

Theoretically even DRAWING that much power out of the Hulk is gonna take it's toll heavily on his power.

Actually, everyone whose power it is to manipulate energy has done it with no ill effects on themselves. The overload thing only happens with people who absorb energy, not control it. Jack of Hearts, Quasar, Magneto, Surfer, etc. They've all drawn it out of him with no toll being taken. Can you think of an example to the contrary?

Surfer got caught in an encounter with Hulk and Hulk started thwack-hitting him around with his own board. The point is, energy manipulator or not, if he just says:

"Hahaha taking your energy" *Saps*

Hulk, would (coz as you said, fight thread) go "Nah. Got more left."

Except that's not how it would go. In their fights, Surfer does his usual passive act, Hulk punches him throws him around, whatever. Surfer is usually unhurt, says, "What's wrong? I thought we were allies?" Hulk punches him some more, etc. Finally Surfer says, "Something's wrong, I'll correct you" then snaps his finger and all the gamma radiation goes away. Poof. InstaBanner. It's happened at least twice in similar fashion. Once Surfer DECIDED to drain Banner, a couple of panels later, he was drained.

Admittedly, Surfer operates on a much greater scale of power than Magneto, so Magneto probably couldn't go *poof* like Surfer can. It would be more like Jack of Hearts, who took several seconds and had to avoid a few shots first before Hulk started weakening. And Jack doesn't operate on a higher scale than Magneto.

So what happens then? Magneto keeps dispersing? Coz he can't absorb. Will die for sure.

Track record against energy manipulators shows that they don't need to disperse for that long.

I have more to say on your post, not actually done. Can you give me the issue number where Magneto drains Hulk's energy and turns him back to Banner, I don't appear to own it and I would like to check it out. Coz I own hundreds of Hulk's and can't recall that. So before I go on with the rest, just wanna check that out.

Oh man, I think it's an old X-men Annual. It's been years. I'll dig around in my closet to get you the number.

Sleep awaits....

Originally posted by SarKastic_OJ
Well, at least when I stated my point of perspective this thread was at least somewhat half-scientific logic/comic speculation, now it has turned into an all out physics "showcase(who knows more scientific laws)..

Another case of comic geeks "over-intellectualizing" a situation/fight...Trust me it's not that serious, a battle between Magneto/Hulk wouldn't requre e=mc2....You guy's should really stop trying to compete at who knows more physics than the other and post comic-orientated opinions..

If you think this is "over-intellectualizing" a situation/fight, you take the posts much too serious, I think.

"I think, in the end, Magneto just seems to have a lot more options at his disposal than the Hulk, who is limited to trying to chase Magneto around and land a punch."

I completely agree. However I think Hulk has a better chance of keeping up with Magneto than he's being given credit for. The long range attacks I'll also agree on. But when you can turn anything you get your hands on into, essentially, a projectile...I think he has some long range attacks, not as effective by far but they're there. Hulk can reach space in a standing broad jump and I think that given how Hulk is at LEAST of a leaner mass now (coz if you look at recent pics to older ones, he does look alot better in terms of fat/muscle ratio) he could have ALOT more maneuverability. Not saying he's gonna jump and grab Magneto but I think he would surprise Magneto and land a good few shots on him even in the air. Forcefield or not, a "good few" shots from The Hulk isn't something you cannot afford to take.

"And if he has an electricity-based impulse nervous system and Magneto gets his hands on it...."

Well whether it's electricity-based or not, a jolt of electricity the size of the one Storm gave him is gonna probably put anyone into cardiac arrest just on pure energy alone. That's an opinion, but that's why I think there's slightly more to it. If Hulk was a sponge and he fought Hydro-Man, it would take much less water blasts to get him absolutely drenched than it would any other person. Bit of a vague way of explaining so forgive me but I trust you'll be able to see what I mean, I hope. Like water is a harmless liquid to drink. A glass full won't affect me. However if I drank gallons, it would do damage just on the sheer volume of intake.

"Don't you sleep? I'm going to bed after this! lol."

Nah not much. Haha, I had a bout of sleep paralysis I think. Woke up yesterday and actually couldn't breathe so I'm just giving it a rest for a bit, ironically.

I'll look out for that annual or if you can find it, go buy it/read it then get back to you. It's difficult to debate with issues neither person has or hasn't read.

Kudos for reviving it. Almost forgot what it was like to actually have to research things before posting.

-AC

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Tell me who your HS physics teacher was so I can assasinate him.

No atmosphere means no gravity? That is utterly false.

dude where the **** did i say NO atmosphere=NO gravity. did i NOT mention in the latter part of the post of proportianetly minimal gravitational effect. you mean to tell me that a magnet relavtivley the size of earth w/no atmosphere, and no set orbit around a larger celestial body really has equivalent gravitiational pull. plus the fact that its a ****ing magnet! magneto wouldnt have to use large amount of his own magnetic energies all he would have to is emit a reversed polarit to move it around.

i mean, thats the most ridiclous thing ive ever heard! you would think that of AALLLl the ****ing things IN THE UNIVERSE magneto could control it would a giant MAGNET

Originally posted by manjaro
dude where the **** did i say NO atmosphere=NO gravity. did i NOT mention in the latter part of the post of proportianetly minimal gravitational effect. you mean to tell me that a magnet relavtivley the size of earth w/no atmosphere, and no set orbit around a larger celestial body really has equivalent gravitiational pull. plus the fact that its a ****ing magnet! magneto wouldnt have to use large amount of his own magnetic energies all he would have to is emit a reversed polarit to move it around.

i mean, thats the most ridiclous thing ive ever heard! you would think that of AALLLl the ****ing things IN THE UNIVERSE magneto could control it would a giant MAGNET

Mass is accompanied by gravity. Celestial bodies, atmosphere, niether of these have any affect on gravity. Mass, and mass alone affects gravity. A body the size of earth that is completely made of iron would have a gravitational pull much greater than that of the earth, as iron is much more dense than the elements earth is primarily composed of.

This isn't a science forum, however.

I solved this one on page 22. It's so accurate it hurts.

Magneto is strong, but the electrical force and magnetic waves that actually exist between atoms and blood and all that... those emit such miniscule amounts could his power even control it, I mean? It would take like a super powerful in the ways of control in order to harness such miniscule amounts of energy.

ok MayB i was alittle emotional but i still maintain that magneto could manipulate a giant magnet

Ya, but... honestly, we all need to stop and think here...
Is magneto really that powerful to where he can manipulate single particle trace amounts of iron in a entire human blood system?
And are his powers that intuned he can change gravity itself? Along with controlling the .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 amount of magnetism atoms produce down to the googleplex decimal... I mean the traces of energy are so minute (My-noot) that it makes me wonder if his powers can even be that sensitive.

Originally posted by IRTMU-Dragon
Is magneto really that powerful to where he can manipulate single particle trace amounts of iron in a entire human blood system?

If you mean controlling people with the iron in their blood, apparently he can do it easily. He's really kind of annoying.

The trace amounts of iron in a human circulatory system is so miniscule im surprised his power is that sensitive.

And yet, his powers ARE the sensitive. One of his most common tricks is to control the iron in someone's blood. He's also disrupted the electrical impulses in nervous systems and brains. And he's also wielded SO MUCH electromagnetic power that he's been able to warp space and time to create a wormhole. Scientists have postulated that it takes more EM energy than is generated by a collapsing star to do something like that. And yet...he's done it. By killing Poccy in AOA he showed that he's able to wield EM energy at a molecular level, tearing Apocalypse apart molecularly and overriding Poccy's power to control his own molecules in the process. He's also demonstrated to some extent the Unified Theory by generating anti-gravity fields and levitating non-metalic objects. That's also why when he has his shield up, you can simply take a plastic chair and thow it through the shield.

In a Magneto one-shot around 1992 or so, he explained how his field works. Basically, it senses the charge of the object or energy coming toward it and synchronizes the charge, repelling the object. If it has a neutral charge, IT WILL ACTUALLY REMOVE AN ELECTRON to give it a negative charge, then generate a negative field to repel the object. So now we're also talking electron manipulation. WHAT?!?!

The man is bad.

Ya, he could obliterate the hulk if that is true.... because everything somewhere creates magnetical force, and he can harness it

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I completely agree. However I think Hulk has a better chance of keeping up with Magneto than he's being given credit for. The long range attacks I'll also agree on. But when you can turn anything you get your hands on into, essentially, a projectile...I think he has some long range attacks, not as effective by far but they're there. Hulk can reach space in a standing broad jump and I think that given how Hulk is at LEAST of a leaner mass now (coz if you look at recent pics to older ones, he does look alot better in terms of fat/muscle ratio) he could have ALOT more maneuverability. Not saying he's gonna jump and grab Magneto but I think he would surprise Magneto and land a good few shots on him even in the air. Forcefield or not, a "good few" shots from The Hulk isn't something you cannot afford to take.

I follow boxing, and in boxing, when a skilled boxer is fighting a big, bruising, brawling boxer, the skilled boxer is considered the favorite. Most people expect the skilled boxer to win, because almost every time, the skilled boxer does win. But, because of the bruiser's reputation for big one-punch knockouts, he always has what boxing experts call "a puncher's chance". That means that, despite being outmatched, there's always a possibility that he'll land that one shot at just the right place at just the right time that will knock his opponent on his ass, even if the skilled boxer was beating him to the punch the whole fight up until that point. That's why people still watch Mike Tyson. He has no skills anymore, but he still has his big punch. That means he'll always be a threat in the heavyweight division because he always has a puncher's chance to win against anybody. But no boxing expert would consider Tyson the best heavyweight by any stretch.

How does that relate to this thread? Well, I think a writer would be well within the limits of reality to write a fight that goes exactly the way you said, giving Hulk a win. So I won't go back and forth for weeks arguing the feasibility of each possibility you named above - sure, it's possible that Hulk could get sufficiently angry, jump, catch an airborne Magneto by surprise and land a good shot...or two....in the air that breaks Magneto's shield and takes him down. It's not impossible and I could accept that. That's why when posting results to comic battles, I frequently give it a best-of 10 score, to see who would win more often in a series. And what you mentioned above could certainly grant Hulk some wins if it went the way you described.

HOWEVER, your challenge to this board was that Hulk was so far out of Magneto's league that there's literally nothing Magneto can do to beat Hulk. I think I answered that challenge with conclusive evidence that not only is there something Magneto can do to beat Hulk, but there are SO MANY things Magneto can do to the Hulk that, if anything, HULK is the underdog here. Hulk has a puncher's chance to beat Magneto. In a ten fight series, that's good for three wins. So I'd give Magneto the win 7/10.

"And if he has an electricity-based impulse nervous system and Magneto gets his hands on it...."

Well whether it's electricity-based or not, a jolt of electricity the size of the one Storm gave him is gonna probably put anyone into cardiac arrest just on pure energy alone.

Untrue. It wouldn't put The Destroyer into cardiac arrest. He doesn't have a heart. It wouldn't put Plastic Man into cardiac arrest - he doesn't conduct electricty. It wouldn't put Hydro-Man into cardiac arrest, he doesn't have human physiology. It put Hulk into arrest because he has a heart, he has a nervous system, and that nervous systems conducts electricity, which sent the jolt straight to the heart. That was the point I was making. It make take orders of magnitude more energy to put Hulk into arrest than Bob Jones, but his nervous system is still humanoid and thus still subject to manipulation to someone who can manipulate it, like Magneto.

That's an opinion, but that's why I think there's slightly more to it. If Hulk was a sponge and he fought Hydro-Man, it would take much less water blasts to get him absolutely drenched than it would any other person. Bit of a vague way of explaining so forgive me but I trust you'll be able to see what I mean, I hope. Like water is a harmless liquid to drink. A glass full won't affect me. However if I drank gallons, it would do damage just on the sheer volume of intake.

I see what you mean - but it actually illustrates my point. The reason why drinking gallons would do damage is because you have a mouth to drink it with and a digestive system to process it. The amount of water varies between you, an infant and the Hulk, but the thing you all have in common is that at some point, you'll have drank so much water that you can't drink anymore and it hurts or it fills your lungs. How much water it takes doesn't matter as much as the fact that it can happen period - it proves that all three of you are humanoids. That was my point.

"Don't you sleep? I'm going to bed after this! lol."

Nah not much. Haha, I had a bout of sleep paralysis I think. Woke up yesterday and actually couldn't breathe so I'm just giving it a rest for a bit, ironically.

Wow...hope you're ok.

I'll look out for that annual or if you can find it, go buy it/read it then get back to you. It's difficult to debate with issues neither person has or hasn't read.

I have so many thousands of comics that this could take a few days, lol. I sent e-mail to a couple of friends too to see if they'd know off-hand. When I hear back, I'll post.

Kudos for reviving it. Almost forgot what it was like to actually have to research things before posting.

Cool. I'm kinda a geek when it comes to that. Not everybody does that. I'm also a physicsphile, so that's why I gravitate (no pun intended) to characters like Magneto, whose powers are based on physics.

I'd like tomention that even if Magneto cant harness the iron inside of anyone (and iron isn'tthe only metal which one finds in the human anatomy), he could always just shove a huge rod down his mouth. Enough iron for you now? LOL