Death Penalty

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There are forensic tests that can prove certain things, but there are all kinds of things that can and have happened which have resulted in innocent men and women being killed/jailed or jailed then killed.

If forensics can prove the accuse did it...then he most likely did. It's the lawyer of the accuse which will get with the "tampering with the evindence" argument. And as we know....laywers will distort the truth to get their client off the case. That's why they get paid for.

Let's be honest, life imprisonment for a crime you didn't commit, with access to family visits, isn't as bad as eternal death for a crime you didn't commit.

Can we stop pretending that it's as bad as death?

-AC

Yes it is AC. Life imprisoment is just as bad. Living in fear is worse than death. Why do you think prisoners form gangs or cliques in prison? Because they in live constant fear one of them getting stab, rape, or even beaten to death.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
If forensics can prove the accuse did it...then he most likely did. It's the lawyer of the accuse which will get with the "tampering with the evindence" argument. And as we know....laywers will distort the truth to get their client off the case. That's why they get paid for.

Just as prosecution will distort things to get their client the win.

Key part: "...then he most likely did."

You truly want to sit there telling me a man should be put to death over most likely?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Yes it is AC. Life imprisoment is just as bad. Living in fear is worse than death. Why do you think prisoners form gangs or cliques in prison? Because they in live constant fear one of them getting stab, rape, or even beaten to death.

You're never going to convince me that living in any way is worse than death. Ever. Eternal death, forever, is not as bad as life (keyword) imprisonment. You really don't seem to respect the gravity of the situation.

-AC

Either way the criminal subjected him or herself to punishment.....

There's no fighting that.

Death IS final, and can maybe even be considered merciful compared to Life In prison to some people.

But even so, no one has the right to kill someone who isn't an immediate danger to anyone's life.

Is Life in Prison worse? Yes and No, its really subjective and depends on the person.

The point is we do have the right to incarcerate a person for as long as it takes to ensure the safety of everyone else.

But we do NOT have the right to kill someone who no longer poses a threat (already captive)

The Law, like i already said is a HUMAN concept and in no way infallible. Therefore the LAW does not have the true "right" to kill anyone.

I truly don't believe it makes any sense to believe death is worse than living, even in the most dire conditions.

Life in prison or life in a third world African country? If you asked one of those starving people if they'd like to live or die, I bet they'd say live.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Key part: "...then he [b]most likely did."

You truly want to sit there telling me a man should be put to death over most likely?[/b]

No, I want a murderer to be punished for his murder by the law. That's what I want. If the judge and jury find him guilty based on the provided evidence. Then by all means whether he is executed or put in prison is fine by me. "I" don't go against the legal system. I may not agree but I don't against it.

You're never going to convince me that living in any way is worse than death. Ever. Eternal death, forever, is not as bad as life (keyword) imprisonment. You really don't seem to respect the gravity of the situation.

-AC

Ummm....I think you don't comprehend my stand. I'm not convincing you of anything....I'm just having a discussion with you. I don't try to persuade people. You agree or disagree with me...that's fine. I dont' lose any sleep. Well, long day is over. After a few bans and lenghty discussions I'm drained. Might continue with you tomorrow.... G'night AC.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, I want a murderer to be punished for his murder by the law. That's what I want. If the judge and jury find him guilty based on the provided evidence. Then by all means whether he is executed or put in prison is fine by me. "I" don't go against the legal system. I may not agree but I don't against it.

This makes perfect sense.

But it still doesn't render the Law correct.

Those in Authority were PUT in authority, and there decisions are not infallible.

There is no guarantee that thier morality is any smarter or higher or better or more correct than mine or yours.

Point is: They don't possess the TRUE RIGHT to execute anyone. They only possess what they beleive is the right, and what people tell them is the right.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
This makes perfect sense.

But it still doesn't render the Law correct.

Those in Authority were PUT in authority, and there decisions are not infallible.

There is no guarantee that thier morality is any smarter or higher or better or more correct than mine or yours.

Point is: They don't possess the TRUE RIGHT to execute anyone. They only possess what they beleive is the right, and what people tell them is the right.

Yes, but just because we SAY something is right doesn't make it.

And honestly, that's not even my issue.

It may be "obvious" when someone deserves to die.

But no individual has the right to administer the actual death.

So what would you reccomend?

ME ?

If it were totally up to me, i would most likely choose Life In Prison.

Now am i saying that emotional or personal bias wouldn't compell me to want to give someone the Death Penalty?

No.....i am NOT immune to all biases.

Honestly, i do not know what the REAL solution can be. I think this is a LOSE/LOSE situation where there is NO real right or wrong.

Bottom Line: We gotta do what we gotta do. But just because you felt enough reason to do it, does not mean you can say it was right.

I am a totally FLAWED human being just like everyone else. I am no expert on correct morals, like no one is.

Would i ever fight against the Death Penalty? Yes, I would.

Does that mean I truly beleive that better things will come of it? I have noooooo idea......for all i know, i could be WRONG as hell and end up making things much worse.

So we should give each a shot and see which turns out the better?

That would be nearly impossible.

Every criminal is different, and results will vary infinately.

You would have to exist in two different realities, watching the SAME society....

one where death penalty is the solution to charges of murder

The other where life in prison would be the solution to murder

I don't know what the solution would be......But i still personally beleive Life in Prison would be a just enough punishment for a murderer, and not lessen the rest of us to that level.

Would you have someone like Saddam executed?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
No, I want a murderer to be punished for his murder by the law. That's what I want. If the judge and jury find him guilty based on the provided evidence. Then by all means whether he is executed or put in prison is fine by me. "I" don't go against the legal system. I may not agree but I don't against it.

A fair enough point of view. I just don't believe that not only should they have the right to do that, but that it shouldn't exist on the basis that any margin for failure is too big when death is the result.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Ummm....I think you don't comprehend my stand. I'm not convincing you of anything....I'm just having a discussion with you. I don't try to persuade people. You agree or disagree with me...that's fine. I dont' lose any sleep. Well, long day is over. After a few bans and lenghty discussions I'm drained. Might continue with you tomorrow.... G'night AC.

I was just saying that in general, by the way. Farebye.

-AC

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
And honestly, that's not even my issue.

It may be "obvious" when someone deserves to die.

But no individual has the right to administer the actual death.

🤨 What are you suggesting, ese?

Should a robot administer the needle?

By the way, Here in Arizona we still have the gas chamber.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
🤨 What are you suggesting, ese?

Should a robot administer the needle?

Perhaps, then again maybe he wants the Midnight Death Fairies to do the drity deed...

thats just plain rude. not in a cool blunt way but in an obnoxious way. i already called myself on it and gave you the opportunity to refute it:

Yes, you're right PVS, I crossed the line with the comparison. You have my apologies.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're never going to convince me that living in any way is worse than death. Ever. Eternal death, forever, is not as bad as life (keyword) imprisonment.

Death is not as bad as life in prison? I thought you were against the death penalty.

The first statement, you think that living is better than death? Maybe, maybe not. Someone suffering from a terminal illness may be in unbearable pain-death may be better for them.

Originally posted by El_NINO
thats good but whats your point? Its like me giving you this website www.google.com and asking you to tell me what you think.

I am struggeling so hard right now not to let your lack of attention and your ignorance or whatever other excuse you have for posting random unrelated stuff freeze me with amazement.

you asked PVS to back everything hes saying with internet articles, adn I directed you to a DEATH PENALTY INFORMATION SITE.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
🤨 What are you suggesting, ese?

Should a robot administer the needle?

By the way, Here in Arizona we still have the gas chamber.

Are they commonly used in Arizona?