Right, but you're trying to say that Gamma melts stuff....it doesn't. It doesn't do it in real life, and there's been nothing to show that it does it in comics. It mutates stuff into big green monsters, yes. It kills the unlucky ones the same way in does in the regular world, yes. But still no evidence of melting anything.
May I say that I don't think that saying gamma radiation can be "frozen" is legitimate statement. Now unless you can prove that Iceman can control the temperature down to absolute zero (which is the coldest temperature that can be achieved by man) then we can't argue that.
Hiroshima and Churnobul were events involving radiation and both generated incredible amount of "heat" in the process. I don't see how a being concieved from a gamma radiation explosion with tremendous regenerative capabilites, will succomb to someone like Iceman. No way!!
Iceman can control the temperature down to absolute zero. He's actually not only frozen but STOPPED molecular spin altogether (which is, by definition, absolute zero). He did that against Legion and several Prime Sentinels during the OZT storyline.
You're confusing radiation with an atomic bomb. It wasn't actually the radiation itself that caused the heat, it was the fission. When an atom splits, it gives off heat. When a U235 atom splits (from an atomic bomb), it gives off heat and Gamma radiation. They're two different things, however. The heat is what killed everybody in the first minute. The gamma radiation is what killed everybody 20 years later...
So unless you're willing to say that Hulk is a walking fission reactor (he's not), then he doesn't have any unusual resistence to his molecules suddenly stopping.
Originally posted by demigawd
ok, let me clarify...GAMMA radiation doesn't melt ice. Radiation is a pretty vague term, like "energy". There are all different kinds of radiation, all along the EM spectrum, but only some of it generates heat. Gamma isn't one of them.Hulk, after the Onslaught storyline was radiation extradimensional energies from counter-Earth. That's not in play here.
Iceman doesn't just freeze stuff - he controls molecular speeds. He's able to slow the spinning of molecules, which causes a freezing effect. Hulk has no defense against that whatsoever becauuuuuuse....he just punches stuff! He can punch stuff hard enough to destroy mountains, but he just punches stuff. He has no defense against his molecules being essentially stopped (frozen).
Iceman, on the other hand, can just stand there and say, "give me your best shot". Hulk does so, and Iceman shatters into a million pieces. A billion pieces. A trillion pieces. But he's still fine, because that doesn't kill him or even knock him out.
So you see...Hulk just punches stuff, and just punching stuff ain't gonna do the trick against Iceman.
Iceman freezes things at a molecular level, and that does just the trick against Hulk.
So sorry again, Iceman still takes this.
Not really. Can Ice-Man freeze Hulk if he's in a million pieces? No he cannot.
All you just did was tell me Ice-Man's "powers". I'm fully aware of them. You're contradicting yourself.
If it was that easy for Ice-Man to do, he'd be doing it all the time and therefore could theoretically beat anyone, but he cannot. Seeing as you like going by realism in comics when it suits you, I'm gonna do the same. X-Men don't kill so therefore Ice-Man isn't gonna win by freezing molecules. Secondly, what's he gonna do if Hulk keeps smashing him into trillions of pieces? Nothing. If we're going by who can keep coming back, then so can Hulk due to his healing factor.
-AC
Actually Iceman CAN freeze Hulk if he's in a million pieces - it has no effect on his ability to use his power. Iceman has spread himself out over an entire room before and retained his consciousness and ability to use his powers offensively. He's also done it as a puddle and as water vapour.
How am I contradicting myself by telling you Iceman's powers? You said he freezes stuff, I said, "more specifically.....". That's clarification, not contradiction.
Iceman could easily do that to lots of enemies and beat just about anyone. He doesn't largely because it takes away from the tension of the fight. Same reason why telekinetics don't stop people's hearts, or telepaths don't switch people's minds off, or Thor doesn't godblast everybody, or Strange doesn't banish everybody to other dimensions.
Iceman could freeze the molecules in specifically areas of Hulk's body, causing him great pain, causing him loss of control over motor functions (nervous system freezing) or causing him to pass out entirely (slowing molecules around the brain area). It doesn't have to be lethal. Iceman wins by Hulk losing consciousness.
I imagine you can apply as much of it as you want. To me, there's no point in ignoring real world science just to make someone like Hulk beat someone like Iceman. I don't care a lick about "Hulk being Hulk" or "Iceman just being Iceman" or any of that stuff. Iceman's powers are such that no physical power, no matter how great, can defeat him. Physical power is all Hulk has. You do the math...
The only thing Iceman could do is possibly "slow down" the hulk, bar none...
Freeze his blood?? Did you ever see Iceman Freeze Magneto's, Juggs, Apocs, and various other X-men villains blood to obtain an instant victory??
The hulk is power incarnate, freezing him would hardly be enough to stop the hulk...It takes sheer brute force or an outer worldy, cosmic counter-power to take out the hulk..Not some freeze capabilities..thats just being too simple...
The hulk has taken on the Fantastic four and the Avengers all by himself and most of the time they only managed to make him horny...
The hulk is a marvel top-tier and having someone the calibur of one Iceman defeat him with the greatest of ease is just marvel slapping themselves in the face..The hulk would eventually land "one blow" upon Iceman sending him into the bitter realms of paralyzation...
Iceman hasn't fought Magneto, Apoc, etc. since his powerup. But he's done internal freezing to plenty of other villains. It's most certainly within his power to do it to Hulk too. I know that Hulk is "supposed" to be this and "supposed" to be that, but you need more than, "Hulk is top tier!" to make him beat Iceman. One blow won't do anything to Iceman but shatter him, which has absolutely no effect on him. A hundred blows would turn Iceman into a bunch of ice chips...still alive, still in control of molecular speed, still able to reform anytime he wants.
No contest - you can beat Iceman, but you can't use physical attacks to do it. Physical attacks is all Hulk has. Sad to hear because he's a "marvel top-tier", but quite true.
Originally posted by demigawd
Iceman hasn't fought Magneto, Apoc, etc. since his powerup. But he's done internal freezing to plenty of other villains. It's most certainly within his power to do it to Hulk too. I know that Hulk is "supposed" to be this and "supposed" to be that, but you need more than, "Hulk is top tier!" to make him beat Iceman. One blow won't do anything to Iceman but shatter him, which has absolutely no effect on him. A hundred blows would turn Iceman into a bunch of ice chips...still alive, still in control of molecular speed, still able to reform anytime he wants.No contest - you can beat Iceman, but you can't use physical attacks to do it. Physical attacks is all Hulk has. Sad to hear because he's a "marvel top-tier", but quite true.
i see what your trying to say demi.
But to honest i have never seen Ice man take out anyone big.
if he can kill anyone like that Then why the hell is he in a group , if he can just freeze people like that.
so are you saying he can beat , even Galactus , Thanos , Jugs because he can freeze thire molecules??? ( thire are limits)
in theory what's preventing that
i don't think it will work on these char.
Can you tell me on who ice man use this attack.???
because if this is so i see him beating magneto , and almost anyone on earth.
From what i heard , Hulk radiated gammas fights back to any attack. (virus etc) so i don't think freezing will work.
and again can you give me a list to who ice man has frozen. (big villian)
Originally posted by kgkg
if he can kill anyone like that Then why the hell is he in a group , if he can just freeze people like that.
Because he's an X-man. See, what people on the board don't understand is that people are in groups because they CHOOSE to be, not because they NEED to be. The X-men are his family, regardless of how powerful he becomes.
so are you saying he can beat , even Galactus , Thanos , Jugs because he can freeze thire molecules??? ( thire are limits)
in theory what's preventing that
Well, I imagine it wouldn't work in situations where a person's consciousness is separate from their physical body, it wouldn't work with skilled energy and matter manipulators (Galactus and Thanos), and psionics could shut him down before he took action. It also wouldn't work on people like Apoc because he has total molecular control over his own body that could override it. My GUESS is that it may not work where magic is involved, either. That means Juggernaut, who is mystically protected.
None of that, of course, applies to Hulk.
Can you tell me on who ice man use this attack.???because if this is so i see him beating magneto , and almost anyone on earth.
From what i heard , Hulk radiated gammas fights back to any attack. (virus etc) so i don't think freezing will work.
and again can you give me a list to who ice man has frozen. (big villian)
The biggest name he's done that to is Legion, who is at Nate Grey level. He wasn't trying to kill him, but completely froze every molecule in his body. Legion was able to recover only because his mind also exists on the Astral Plane, so he telepathically attacked Iceman and undid the freezing.
Again, that doesn't apply to Hulk. There's a world of difference between being able to fight back a virus and being able to control the molecules in your body. Hulk ain't Apocalypse.
Gamma radiation carries intense heat. Gamma rays are the single most energetic wavelength of electromagnetic radiation in the universe. Gamma rays are extremely hot, and would certainly melt ice, or boil water. By the way, absolute zero is -273 degrees Celsius. Hulk's body is a high amplitude/yield gamma ray generator. He could generate more than enough energy to thaw any effects Iceman could have on him. Then, he'd knock Iceman out pretty easily.