Originally posted by demigawd
. Iceman's powers are such that no physical power, no matter how great, can defeat him. Physical power is all Hulk has. You do the math...
I've seen iceman get his ass beat many a time by physical power in the X-men comics. In theory Iceman can do all of this, but why hasnt he done it before. Why hasnt he applied this to say...Juggernaut?
umm question why would Iceman have to be hit in the first place? I mean think about it you have a HUGE green giant trying to punch your face in and you try to dodge it right? well being iceman he wouldnt really have to dodge it, he could just do that moisture inversion thing of his, become water vapor and effectively invisible. Now being invisible and since the Hulk can do him no actual damage since he is water vapor, all Iceman has to do is wait him out while the hulk gets angry about his opponent not being, there throws a hissy fit and then till he becomes banner. See? that way we wont have people saying that gamma radiation can melt the ice, and iceman wont have to actually touch him.
Originally posted by ragesRemorseBecause you'd be some kind of jerkface to try out your flash freezing lethal HIIIIII-YAH! instant freeze on your own team members just to see how he'd take it.
I've seen iceman get his ass beat many a time by physical power in the X-men comics. In theory Iceman can do all of this, but why hasnt he done it before. Why hasnt he applied this to say...Juggernaut?
Like i said before, because Iceman is not he most popular character out there, people will will say that he'd get creamed withough even knowing about the character. Realize that at freezing of the blood isnt even him at full potential. It takes no effort from him to do so. Emma Frost couldnt even see it coming because he had his back turned towards her, and wasnt even touching her. And shes a telepath. Hed have no problem doing the same to Hulk thus reverting him back to Banner. Iceman wins with little effort.
I think we are forgetting what makes Hulk such a formidable threat. Forget his mammouth strength, but purely his healing abilities alone makes him rival Thanos and such in a sense. Iceman freezing his blood, don't buy it because his healing factor would kick in too quickly. It's an unlikely scenario because his healing will not allow that. Simple. So demigawd's theory might have worked with another opponent but not Hulk.
When youre affecting someones conciousness i.e the brain, its very easy to know the Hulk out. His healing factor has nothing to do with that. There is no physical damage being done to the body. When Havok made a beam so fine that it penetrated Hulk's skin, it knocked him out and turned him back to Bruce Banner. Hulks healing factor wasnt that quick obviously. Iceman slowing the blood flow to Hulks brain wouldnt be stopped by Hulks healing factor. Healing factor has nothing to do with it. Its purely moisture. Just like Magneto would be able to do the same thing by manipulating the iron in his Blood. Sorry to say LordFear, but your point isnt valid. Theres nothing to heal. Maybe if it was a loss of blood, healing factor would come into play, but slowing the flow of the bloodto the brain connot be stopped. Thus Hulk looses still.
Your healing factor goes with your immune system.
So any anomoly in your body, your immune kicks in to regulate it back to a normal state. This process is called homeostatis. Look it up!!!!
Just like when u get a fever, you begin to perspire and burn up and get chills. Do you think that your body just stays there and do nothing??
If you are in a frozen basin of water, your body increases it's temperature in order to compensate. You think healing only refers to physical damage? In the Legacy issues of XMEN, how do you think Logan came up with the cure, his body produced antigens and anitbodies to fight off the virus. That's due to his HEALING nothing else!!!
You may be right in certain cases, but when you get a fever your blood doesnt stop flowing in your veins. When you get sick does your blood stop flowing? I think not. The legacy virus didnt stop Mutants blood from going to thier brains. Iceman can literally stop you blood from reaching your brain, thus knocking you out. Hulks healing factor wouldnt be able to stop that. He wouldnt even know what hit him. Emma Frost who is a powerful telepath didnt even see it coming. It was instant.
Homeostasis refers to the body's immune system regulating to compensate for environmental changes. But it's limited to macrochanges, not microchanges. Essentially, damage done at the molecular level are exempt from homeostasis. That's why the body doesn't heal well from radiation poisoning - it changes you at a molecular level. Iceman's ability to stop molecular spin is just what it implies...a molecular change. So a healing factor would have no effect on it.
Good try, though.
No demigawd, I am referring to his circulation. If it is gonna be crystalized, then immediately his healing would kick in preventing him from having his blood frozen over. Whether it's by raising his body temp or whatever. His healing can help him I am sure of that!!!!!
Answer this question then:
When Hulk wanders snowy mountains, hilltops and various arctic weather conditions areas, why doesn't he freeze over?
WHat prevents his body from getting hypothermia like everybody else, can you answer that?
Uhh what exactly are you saying? If Iceman freezes Hulks blood flow, Hulk's "healing factor" would make it flow anyway? Doubt it. Do you have anythig to back this up? When havok knocked him out, why wasnt he able to heal from that? Once Hulk's brain is tampered with whether it be lack of oxygen(due to air or blood flow), mind controll, head-on collision, Hulk is at a disadvantage. Are you inplying that Magneto wouldnt be able to do the same thing?
Snowy mountains, arctic conditions, etc. are all environmental in nature. That's what homeostasis is meant to combat, so it makes sense that it would adjust to that. Snowy mountains, arctic conditions, etc. don't change you at a molecular level. They don't STOP your molecules from spinning. They gradually slow your molecules down, yes, and your body can compensate for that. Iceman affects you at a molecular level - we're not talking about coating Hulk's blood with a fine sheet of snow. He STOPS its molecular spin, instantly removing all movement (heat) from it. It's something an immune system is unable to counter, because Iceman isn't doing it environmentally...he's directly affecting the molecule.
I can't argue further because I would need to know the physiology of the Hulk and whether or not he can or is immune to attacks on a molecular level. My stand and opinion remains that IceMan cannot take him down even if he controls things molecularly. I can tell you not to discount the Hulk so easily because a man that can withstand an immense barrages of physical, psychic damage, extreme cold I don't see affecting him much. I just can't. This being was birthed from radiation, I can't credit this win to IC. sorry!!!
That's fine, and I respect your opinion. Hulk has a place in the pantheon, so it's difficult to believe that someone who is part of a team could take him out, despite all the evidence. Sometimes when faith is all you have to go on...it'll do.
It does make me wonder about what you'd think of Hulk vs. people like Sandman, Hydroman and Shadow King, who likewise don't have bodies to physically mess with.
I hear what youre saying LordFear, and i respect your opinion as well. I dont respect opinions of thos who just come one and say Iceman would get creamed. Thanks demigawd for backing me with this. I have to admit your points were more clear and precise than mine. Ahh well. Point proven. I wish I had a scanner so i could show Uncany X-Men #331.