Originally posted by carver9
Hulk showings against speedsters proves that he can hit them. What else do we need.?
The speed at which they were travelling when he hit them?
So, and as bluewater has shown, Thor also has lightspeed level reactions, and can react to speedsters, he has the same reaction speeds?
But then, all those people who have tagged Thor are also capable of the same level of speed?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The speed at which they were travelling when he hit them?So, and as bluewater has shown, Thor also has lightspeed level reactions, and can react to speedsters, he has the same reaction speeds?
But then, all those people who have tagged Thor are also capable of the same level of speed?
Thor is a pretty special case, from what I understand.
It would take someone like Damborgson to confirm, but I saw the following mentioned as another instance of Thor showing superspeed in battle. I believe the character he is fighting is called "Tutinax".
Not sure of the specifics here, though. The Gladiator heat vision dodge and deflection is a better practical showing for the present.
Oh, I agree, Thor has superspeed.
That means everyone who tags him, has the same or greater level of reaction speed.
Or, even better:
DCnU Superman has tagged the Flash before. So he is faster than Barry.
WW has kicked Superman in the face. So she is faster than Superman AND Barry.
Hal Jordan, however, has subdued WW before. So he is faster than WW, Superman, and Flash.
BUT Batman has stolen Hal's ring before he could even react. So Batman is faster than Superman, the Flash, WW and Hal Jordan.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But quicksilver is a light speed level guy, and no matter how fast he goes, he will be tagged, that's what you said...
Originally posted by The Sorrow
That's not how it works in comics though. The way speed is often talked about on these forums it rarely if ever is actually displayed that way in comics. Especially in Marvel where speed is generally not one of the more impressive superpowers.
I agree, its not shown that way. But why not? Is it because then comics won't sell, if Barry just blitzes everyone? Or the Surfer?
How about telepathy? Professor X showed recently in Avengers/X-men how powerful he was, by putting everyone to sleep instantly. If I made a thread with him in, and he put everyone to sleep instantly (despite not really showing this level of power or character inclination on a regular consistent level), I won't be remiss I think if I said he mindphucks everyone.
The Hulk gets stronger, the angrier he gets. He has dynamic strength. Basic knowledge of him will tell Superman this.
When he fought the Parasite, another guy who gets stronger as time goes by, he simply picked him up and threw him away.
When the Hulk BFRed Wolverine, and Monet during WWH, everyone lauded him as the most tactical, the most dangerous Hulk yet. And if he were to do the same tactic in a forum fight, no one would bat an eyelid. Yet we are to say Superman won't BFR, because...he doesn't do it against Konvikt (who isn't dynamic) Doomsday (who wasn't dynamic) Darkseid (who wasn't dynamic, although interestingly, when Superman got serious he DID BFR him), but would stand and slug it out?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I agree, its not shown that way. But why not? Is it because then comics won't sell, if Barry just blitzes everyone? Or the Surfer?How about telepathy? Professor X showed recently in Avengers/X-men how powerful he was, by putting everyone to sleep instantly. If I made a thread with him in, and he put everyone to sleep instantly (despite not really showing this level of power or character inclination on a regular consistent level), I won't be remiss I think if I said he mindphucks everyone.
The Hulk gets stronger, the angrier he gets. He has dynamic strength. Basic knowledge of him will tell Superman this.
When he fought the Parasite, another guy who gets stronger as time goes by, he simply picked him up and threw him away.
When the Hulk BFRed Wolverine, and Monet during WWH, everyone lauded him as the most tactical, the most dangerous Hulk yet. And if he were to do the same tactic in a forum fight, no one would bat an eyelid. Yet we are to say Superman won't BFR, because...he doesn't do it against Konvikt (who isn't dynamic) Doomsday (who wasn't dynamic) Darkseid (who wasn't dynamic, although interestingly, when Superman got serious he DID BFR him), but would stand and slug it out?
Lol.
Hey, how about I make a claim that Hulk needs time to get angry enough to ramp up to Superman's strength?
I'd be crucified. Everyone would jump on me with scans showing how he can get up to WBH levels almost instantaneously.
Aha, but my argument is, the Hulk's strength ramping is very rarely seen to increase at that rate - certainly, only in the last few years have we seen WBH levels, and compare that to all his showings since he was created. Therefore, I shall ignore it?
But there's a whole lot you're ignoring.
First and foremost is the fact that Superman doesn't fight like DarkSaint thinks he himself would fight if he had Kryptonian powers.
The 2nd thing is that not everyone is in agreement with what Superman can and cannot do with those Kryptonian powers.
P.R. will lightly tell us that Superman moves at lightspeed for instance, same as you. Faster even. Surely in some books, under some authors, he does.
But writers like Busiek say "No, he can't".
And maybe it's just my bad luck to have a comic collection like this, but the majority of the appearances of Superman I own feature scenes like the following:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you DO own the comic where Superman BFRs Parasite then....
Nope. That scene I found online.
I said my collection features scenes LIKE that one.
I don't actually own that particular comic.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
shall we ignore the entirety of Pak's storyline, as only he seems to think that Hulk can attain WBH or WWH levels?
But he's not the only one that thinks that, else how did we get Gray Hulk saving the earth from the Forrester Asteroid?
And you HAVE tried to get people to ignore the entirety of Pak's storyline. I started to ask you, and the only reason I didn't was because it would have distracted me from the stuff I felt needed to be posted here,
where you got the idea it was only Savage Hulk we were discussing,
when even the Gladiator/Hulk encounter shown the previous page or so ago did not deal with that, and Savage Hulk generally has not existed since the time this thread was created -- and didn't exist THEN, unless memory fails me (it might, 9 years is a long time for Marvel to cycle through ideas ...)
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I agree, its not shown that way. But why not? Is it because then comics won't sell, if Barry just blitzes everyone?The Hulk gets stronger, the angrier he gets. He has dynamic strength. Basic knowledge of him will tell Superman this.
When he fought the Parasite, another guy who gets stronger as time goes by, he simply picked him up and threw him away.
When the Hulk BFRed Wolverine, and Monet during WWH, everyone lauded him as the most tactical, the most dangerous Hulk yet. And if he were to do the same tactic in a forum fight, no one would bat an eyelid. Yet we are to say Superman won't BFR, because...he doesn't do it against Konvikt (who isn't dynamic) Doomsday (who wasn't dynamic) Darkseid (who wasn't dynamic, although interestingly, when Superman got serious he DID BFR him), but would stand and slug it out?
Superman tried bfr against Konvict but failed iirc, like he has against Doomsday before. It would take a massive punch to send Hulk out into space as he is just as strong and tough, arguably more so, than Kal is. It would actually be a very impressive feat if it happened. Thor came close but he damn near killed himself from exhaustion and used more than strength. If Kal wanted to bfr Hulk I think throwing him would be the easiest way or something he can't really brace for like what Skaar did to Juggernaut. Most people that start threads usually take bfr off though.
Originally posted by The SorrowFair enough, and I agree with the BFR being off in threads - because otherwise, its a simple task (look at DCnU Cyborg threads, for example)
I genuinely think it's because speed isn't the trump card most make it out to be. Obviously it's an advantage, in some cases a great advantage, but typically it's not an insurmountable one. When characters throw hundreds to thousands of punches in a second or whatever, there's more often than not a trade-off for power.Superman tried bfr against Konvict but failed iirc, like he has against Doomsday before. It would take a massive punch to send Hulk out into space as he is just as strong and tough, arguably more so, than Kal is. It would actually be a very impressive feat if it happened. Thor came close but he damn near killed himself from exhaustion and used more than strength. If Kal wanted to bfr Hulk I think throwing him would be the easiest way or something he can't really brace for like what Skaar did to Juggernaut. Most people that start threads usually take bfr off though.
Originally posted by carver9
Quicksilver is a light speed character.
And he's still slower than Superman.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Carver's Hulk is a flying speedster with gamma vision, you didn't know that?
Carter should write for marvel.
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk showings against speedsters proves that he can hit them. What else do we need.?
A brain.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
But there's a whole lot you're ignoring.First and foremost is the fact that Superman doesn't fight like DarkSaint thinks he himself would fight if he had Kryptonian powers.
The 2nd thing is that not everyone is in agreement with what Superman can and cannot do with those Kryptonian powers.
P.R. will lightly tell us that Superman moves at lightspeed for instance, same as you. Faster even. Surely in some books, under some authors, he does.
But writers like Busiek say "No, he can't".
own feature scenes like the following: [/B]
And maybe it's just my bad luck to have a comic collection like this, but the majority of the appearances of Superman [b]I
At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what a writer's personal opinion is, because what goes down on the page will always take precedence. For every low showing of him being tagged by Doctor Light, there's a showing of something like him hearing Supergirl calling out for help while he's near Saturn, and him being on Earth in seconds.
If Superman says "I can't fly faster than light" and then in the next issue is crossing a solar system in seconds, we have to take the latter as being the obvious truth.
========
Superman can use his speed in fights. It isn't his first option, but it IS part of his arsenal, and (anyone) pretending that Superman's speed isn't enough to dodge at least some of Hulk's punches, obviously wasn't here, or just didn't listen when Badabing and I mentioned it in almost every bloody thread we were in.