Did Noah Ark actually Exist?

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
So basically the bible sets itself up to be less provable as time goes on? And that doesn't seem suspicious to anyone? Seriously? You all never took a moment to assume the writers of the Bible put all that in there to explain why we didn't see anything magical happening now a days? 🤨

It is simpler then that. People make up connections that were not placed there by the writers. They connect books that are separated by time and culture. On top of that, translations have distorted the meaning. Humans are inventive, and have great imaginations. However, they begin to believe the fantasies, and over time the bible was tweaked a little here and a little there, to make a better picture.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
It is simpler then that. People make up connections that were not placed there by the writers. They connect books that are separated by time and culture. On top of that, translations have distorted the meaning. Humans are inventive, and have great imaginations. However, they begin to believe the fantasies, and over time the bible was tweaked a little here and a little there, to make a better picture.

More generalizations? Do you believe or not? (Rhotirical)

The Bible claims to be the word of God narrated through a specific people who were chosen not because they were special but to honor a covenant God made with one righteous man. It's easy to say it's fantasy (and any rational man will accept scepticism) but don't preach scepticism as fact.

I can rationalize God, and maintain some scepticism, this is not the same for everyone but I don't like seeing generalizations being peddled.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
So basically the bible sets itself up to be less provable as time goes on? And that doesn't seem suspicious to anyone? Seriously? You all never took a moment to assume the writers of the Bible put all that in there to explain why we didn't see anything magical happening now a days? 🤨

First of all there's no "magic" to be witnessed. If you program a function into a computer that is triggered by the input of a certain word, does it become magic? It is the same with the natural world, nothing of God in the Bible is conjured through any sort of magic.

From the first book in the Bible God wishes that mankind achieves righteousness. This can only be achieved by choice. Adam & Eve are offered this choice to obey or not. Every generation is faced with the issue of righteousness in keeping with their time.

Even in those "magical" days few people ever witnessed a visible God, why would it be different today? Many in our age claim meetings with angelic beings. There are some stories about people rising from the morgue after meetings with Jesus.

I can accept mundane theories for such events (if there're any) but I like to be aware that we each play only a small role in the entirety of reality, and our information is derived from limited sources.

Originally posted by Allankles
More generalizations? Do you believe or not? (Rhotirical)

The Bible claims to be the word of God narrated through a specific people who were chosen not because they were special but to honor a covenant God made with one righteous man. It's easy to say it's fantasy (and any rational man will accept scepticism) but don't preach scepticism as fact.

I can rationalize God, and maintain some scepticism, this is not the same for everyone but I don't like seeing generalizations being peddled.

Generalizations? Are you not the one using generalizations? You "speak" as if the bible was the only book on the Earth to claim its self to be the "word of god"! What about the Koran? It claims to be the word of god. Or other books that claims to be magical?

It seems to me that if someone wanted to legitimize them self, then just claim that what you are saying is from god, or gods. No one can question god, therefore no one can question you.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Generalizations? Are you not the one using generalizations? You "speak" as if the bible was the only book on the Earth to claim its self to be the "word of god"! What about the Koran? It claims to be the word of god. Or other books that claims to be magical?

It seems to me that if someone wanted to legitimize them self, then just claim that what you are saying is from god, or gods. No one can question god, therefore no one can question you.

I said it claimed to be the word of God. The Koran's traces its origin with the Bible, only it accepts Muhammed as its chief prophet and doesn't acknowledge the trinity of God.

It's also influenced by Arabic traditions, the first being the name "Allah" which may well have been an ancient Arabic moon god.

And the Bible is not magical. I don't see anything magical, about healing or creation. Is dark matter magic? Are any of the universal forces magic?

Originally posted by Allankles
I said it [b]claimed to be the word of God. The Koran's traces its origin with the Bible, only it accepts Muhammed as its chief prophet and doesn't acknowledge the trinity of God.

It's also influenced by Arabic traditions, the first being the name "Allah" which may well have been an ancient Arabic moon god.

And the Bible is not magical. I don't see anything magical, about healing or creation. Is dark matter magic? Are any of the universal forces magic? [/B]

If you are offended by the word "magic" then you can use supernatural.

There is no magic or supernatural in nature. Only in the minds of humans does such fantasy exist.

The bible was written by humans. It is a mix of history, fiction, and letters.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you are offended by the word "magic" then you can use supernatural.

There is no magic or supernatural in nature. Only in the minds of humans does such fantasy exist.

The bible was written by humans. It is a mix of history, fiction, and letters.

So certain. I've nothing to counter people's beliefs.

Originally posted by Allankles
First of all there's no "magic" to be witnessed. If you program a function into a computer that is triggered by the input of a certain word, does it become magic? It is the same with the natural world, nothing of God in the Bible is conjured through any sort of magic.

From the first book in the Bible God wishes that mankind achieves righteousness. This can only be achieved by choice. Adam & Eve are offered this choice to obey or not. Every generation is faced with the issue of righteousness in keeping with their time.

Even in those "magical" days few people ever witnessed a visible God, why would it be different today? Many in our age claim meetings with angelic beings. There are some stories about people rising from the morgue after meetings with Jesus.

I can accept mundane theories for such events (if there're any) but I like to be aware that we each play only a small role in the entirety of reality, and our information is derived from limited sources.

*shrugs* Maybe on a local/regional level

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
He made a woman from a rib....and it didn't say he did it through gene splicing and cloning. So that pretty much leaves magic.

Actually that still leaves gene splicing and cloning.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually that still leaves gene splicing and cloning.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Not unless you think God was an alien.

Not really.

Lets apply elementary logic to your statement via analogy.

I travel a great distance and don't say I walked. Does this mean I teleported? Does this mean I walked? Does this mean I drove?

Spoiler:
It doesn't mean any of those. I only means that you don't know.

You know, if you want to be a rationalist that's really the sort of thing you ought to understand with barely any thought.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
Comparing computer programming to making stuff out of thin air is an asinine comparison. If you had never seen a computer before and didn't know what it was and had no idea about technology it might seem magical. But anyone who isn't ignorant to modern technology find computers magical. How is nothing God conjures done magically? He made a woman from a rib....and it didn't say he did it through gene splicing and cloning. So that pretty much leaves magic. Or are you trying to argue that because it's God it's not magic? Either way that's just dumb. And a few people witnessed "God" back in the day and so the rest of you based a religion off of it? As far as your claim of miracles still happening now a days....do you have any proof? Has there been any recorded evidence of an actual miracle in recent history? Has God flooded the world, caused plagues of locust, put magical tablets in the palm of anyones hands and destroyed cities? Last I checked no. As far as your comment about our information being from a limited source...that's true. Even more so in apparently your case being as you base your information on a book that was written thousands of years ago by someone who didn't even know what the sun was or what thunder and lightning were... Please broaden your horizons before trying to have a debate trying to use logic. You can't apply logic to magic without disproving magic (and yes the stuff God did would be consider magic).

Your understanding is the one that seems limited. You speak of imagination without realizing the mind is in itself a microcosm of the idea of supernatural.

Your mind can create scenarios and go places you body cannot follow, until some one makes an automobile and then an airplane and then a space shuttle, and who knows a vehicle that can traverse time itself and then maybe the boundaries of reality themselves.

Point is you're reasoning is very very basic. I used the computer reference to try and make you invision nature and its many forces working as a conduit for God in the Bible, the same way a computer works as a conduit for a persons thoughts, mechanical process, etc etc.

Referencing gene splicing again is a very limited way of perceiving these things. Our bodies are not even designed by human beings, who's to say that we couldn't have been silicon based organisms? Gene splicing is reasoning based on the product of creation, not the idea of creation itself. You forget we observe only what has already been made to exist.

You call it magic, I call it using his tools.

Originally posted by Allankles
So certain. I've nothing to counter people's beliefs.

Not belief; opinion. It is my opinion based on having been raised as a Christian.

Originally posted by Allankles
Your understanding is the one that seems limited. You speak of imagination without realizing the mind is in itself a microcosm of the idea of supernatural.

Your mind can create scenarios and go places you body cannot follow, until some one makes an automobile and then an airplane and then a space shuttle, and who knows a vehicle that can traverse time itself and then maybe the boundaries of reality themselves.

Point is you're reasoning is very very basic. I used the computer reference to try and make you invision nature and its many forces working as a conduit for God in the Bible, the same way a computer works as a conduit for a persons thoughts, mechanical process, etc etc.

Referencing gene splicing again is a very limited way of perceiving these things. Our bodies are not even designed by human beings, who's to say that we couldn't have been silicon based organisms? Gene splicing is reasoning based on the product of creation, not the idea of creation itself. You forget we observe only what has already been made to exist.

You call it magic, I call it using his tools.

"His"? A god that is a male is limited.

Human imagination is the key. That is the only force behind the tool, as you put it.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
"His"? A god that is a male is limited.

Human imagination is the key. That is the only force behind the tool, as you put it.

There are many more forces than human imagination. Human imagination is a product of this universe, yet within it the laws of the natural world are overcome.

There's nothing new under the sun, what appears like a novel imagining is probably founded on something that already was. Many generations think themselves superior to the previous "less enlightened" generation.

Yet war persists, the tools of destruction more devastating, we haven't changed much and everything we have we owe to those who came before. The ancient world had medical science, it had civilizations where complex surgery involving even the brain were practiced.

Zenkai told me to think more broadly, this is exactly what thinking broadly is, I don't allow myself to be trapped by one perspective or another.

Originally posted by Allankles
There are many more forces than human imagination. Human imagination is a product of this universe, yet within it the laws of the natural world are overcome.

There's nothing new under the sun, what appears like a novel imagining is probably founded on something that already was. Many generations think themselves superior to the previous "less enlightened" generation.

Yet war persists, the tools of destruction more devastating, we haven't changed much and everything we have we owe to those who came before. The ancient world had medical science, it had civilizations where complex surgery involving even the brain were practiced.

Zenkai told me to think more broadly, this is exactly what thinking broadly is, I don't allow myself to be trapped by one perspective or another.

The laws of physics cannot be overcome by the mind.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not really.

Lets apply elementary logic to your statement via analogy.

I travel a great distance and don't say I walked. Does this mean I teleported? Does this mean I walked? Does this mean I drove?

Spoiler:
It doesn't mean any of those. I only means that you don't know.

You know, if you want to be a rationalist that's really the sort of thing you ought to understand with barely any thought.

Originally posted by Allankles
Your understanding is the one that seems limited. You speak of imagination without realizing the mind is in itself a microcosm of the idea of supernatural.

Your mind can create scenarios and go places you body cannot follow, until some one makes an automobile and then an airplane and then a space shuttle, and who knows a vehicle that can traverse time itself and then maybe the boundaries of reality themselves.

Point is you're reasoning is very very basic. I used the computer reference to try and make you invision nature and its many forces working as a conduit for God in the Bible, the same way a computer works as a conduit for a persons thoughts, mechanical process, etc etc.

Referencing gene splicing again is a very limited way of perceiving these things. Our bodies are not even designed by human beings, who's to say that we couldn't have been silicon based organisms? Gene splicing is reasoning based on the product of creation, not the idea of creation itself. You forget we observe only what has already been made to exist.

You call it magic, I call it using his tools.

You realize that your entire thing here doesn't make any sense right? Your talking about imagination being able to do things that the body cant until we make things with our imagination? That still doesn't make anything magical. You do realize how the human brain works right? It's not some magical influence. There's scientific reasons for thoughts and imagination. My reasoning is basic? My reasoning is logical. It's based on evidence. It doesn't need to be amazing and complex because it's based on simple proven fact. Your reasoning only seems complex because you have to invent new things and new reasons as to why things happen or have happened. And yes we do only observe what has already been made to exist. We can't observe something if it doesn't exist. I must be missing your point....or you don't have any actual clue of what you're talking about...huhm...i wonder which one it is..

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
You realize that your entire thing here doesn't make any sense right? Your talking about imagination being able to do things that the body cant until we make things with our imagination? That still doesn't make anything magical. You do realize how the human brain works right? It's not some magical influence. There's scientific reasons for thoughts and imagination. My reasoning is basic? My reasoning is logical. It's based on evidence. It doesn't need to be amazing and complex because it's based on simple proven fact. Your reasoning only seems complex because you have to invent new things and new reasons as to why things happen or have happened. And yes we do only observe what has already been made to exist. We can't observe something if it doesn't exist. I must be missing your point....or you don't have any actual clue of what you're talking about...huhm...i wonder which one it is..

I know how the mind works, but even in the mind we find a myriad of questions that your basic reasoning doesn't even touch. If Earth is the only celestial body that houses life, ask yourself what purpose the universe would have for life?why would the universe make life and fit it with the tools to make sentience? even sapience (in our case)? unless the universe itself is possessed of a sentience of its own?

People use words like "evolution" without considering its precedence. Why would the universe spawn a planet that contained the building blocks of life? unless life represent something far more profound, its existence caused into being by something that was already living.

Ponder your reality, and ask of the meaning of life.

I hear people like Dawkins mentioning how we are yet primitive, doesn't he realize how unique life is? How can we be primitive when there's no precedence for life? for humanity?

Your questions only touch at the after effects of the initial cause. You look at our carbon based forms and make assertions based on our as yet limited capacity to affect the natural world. But you're sentient, sapient you have been given the gift to observe the wider universe, yet you spend that gift contemplating on what is, without marvelling at the "why" and "how".