Just for a couple more:
And in Legends of the DCU: Spectre, issue 4, right before Hal's run of Spectre, [which is right when he got the power and before he unlocked it.] summoned an army of angels to spread the fires of heaven and rebuild the world, because some psychic sent it up in flames. Then he judged the guy.
After Emperor Joker, Spectre and Mr Mxyzptlx rebuilt the universe in a few minutes time, and Mxyz even cracked a joke about how they were better at creation than God was.
Originally posted by MordumAnd Living Tribunal is below Spectre.
Thanos wins. In Marvel the end #1 he is shown to be above the living tribunal. Tribunal is behind the Marvel logo on top of the comic.
<<And Living Tribunal is below Spectre.
He is a being powered by God. Spectre is part of God.
See the difference?
It's like Galactus vs Silver Surfer.>>
good analogy, and well said. and jun, it's funny, you inadvertently hit a topic i was just discussing in another thread. power cosmic v astro-force/source. you seem to have a good grasp on current dc cosmology. why don't you drop in and weigh in on the discussion?
oh, and i agree with your assessment of this battle completely.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
To be fair going by on panel depictions HOTU hasnt done anything Phoenix hasnt been stated and/or shown to be capable of. Phoenix collapses reality at the end of the creation cycle and claims LT in this process. Thats what happens naturally according to X-men Forever. The fact that it was possible for Stranger to tap into Phoenix and bring this end about on his own timetable shows you how great this power is.So how exactly is it greater again?
On top of that as an aspect of God a part of God i believe Spectre if supported by the Presence would be able to defeat one who is merely tapping into gods power. Thats just my opinion.
He was the PF bud.
he also said LT is the stongest. meaning Stonger than Phoenix
and ya look at the date.
It's after X-men Forever ha there is you RETCON
The Spectre is or was a fallen angel that was transformed by The Presence into the new Divine Wrath. it is not really a part of God it just gets its power from The Logoz/The Word GOD (aka Jesus in the real world). Also didn't The Spectre blame him losing to The Great Beast because Jim was going crazy because of how much power The Spectre was giving him and that was the reason for him losing because Jim was causing The Spectre not to be able to fight The Great Beast as best he could. If Jim could have handled the Spectres power then it seems as though The Spectre could have beaten The Great Beast... this also puts The Spectre above Thanos with THOTU if The Spectre was ready which he should be in a real fight...
The closest anyone or anything that can get to Yahweh himself is seeing his Holy Presence which in the real world and DC comics is The Holy Spirit/The Presence...
Whew............ Im gonna need some time to ......comprehend all this stuff....
The HOTU = LT ............... IMO !!!
Presence powered Sepctre = LT ................... IMO !!!
The Spectre can just take away the HOTU !!!
Its like this......... he'll give Thanos a view of the universe 1000years in the future if he keeps on altering reality with THOTU......... Its some kinda uber-powerful Penance Stare........ Then, Thanos realized and gave up the HOTU !!!
What do you think ?? A little far-fetched ??
Originally posted by Juntai
And Living Tribunal is below Spectre.
He is a being powered by God. Spectre is part of God.
See the difference?
It's like Galactus vs Silver Surfer.
It's debatable. Who's to say the power the Heart of The Universe is weaker than Spectre? Only your opinions. Everything is just an opinion. Did you read THE END saga Immortal One? Did you see what Thanos did to Living Tribunal, Infinity, Eternity, The Celestials, Etc???
The Living Tribunal was created by what some call the Supreme Being. The Living Tribunal seems to be the most supreme being or power in comprehension and has the power to do anything short of its master, whom it calls The One Above All.
LT and Spectre should be around the same power levels. LT patrols the Multiverse same as Spectre.
Originally posted by ImmortalOne
Whew............ Im gonna need some time to ......comprehend all this stuff....The HOTU = LT ............... IMO !!!
Presence powered Sepctre = LT ................... IMO !!!
The Spectre can just take away the HOTU !!!
Its like this......... he'll give Thanos a view of the universe 1000years in the future if he keeps on altering reality with THOTU......... Its some kinda uber-powerful Penance Stare........ Then, Thanos realized and gave up the HOTU !!!What do you think ?? A little far-fetched ??
How can LT be equal to Thanos with the HOTU?
Your scenario on the other hand could very well happen though. Spectre could try to show Thanos the future if he wants to. That could cause him to give up the HOTU... But not likely. He's not the Messiah of the Marvel Universe. Warlock is. 🙂
So according to your logic plus my logic/theory,
Thanos with HOTU > Spectre Powered by Presence = Living Tribunal > Phoenix Force
Yup. That's the way I see it.
See this pic?
Thanos took everyone out in that pic. Blacked out the whole damn Multiverse. Then recreated it.
Originally posted by kgkg
Phoenix wasn't there because she couldn't do shit.He was the PF bud.
he also said LT is the stongest. meaning Stonger than Phoenix
and ya look at the date.
It's after X-men Forever ha there is you RETCON
""He was the PF"? Huh? Dont know what youre referring to here but sounds like more of your theories on how phoenix is not greater than LT in spite of on panel evidence telling you otherwise. How ironic. 😄
By your logic then Phoenix and LT couldnt do anything to Wanda when she was threatening the multiverse hence their absence. By your logic Phoenix is below the likes of the skyfathers and Eternity who were there.
Ridiculous 🙄
It was sfter X-men Forever however as ive said Thanos fighting the opposition and then finally faced with LT referring to him as "top of th efood chain" can be interpreted in many ways considering the circumstances he was depicted in on panel. In those circumstances he could very well have meant out of the gathered opposition. You need to understand that the way you interpreted it, the way you want it to be isnt necessarily the right way. Given that in current continuity LT gets replaced in the creation cycle via Phoenixes power then im sorry but it looks like my interpretation is correct. For that im sorry mate. 🙁
Originally posted by Adam Warlock
It's debatable. Who's to say the power the Heart of The Universe is weaker than Spectre? Only your opinions. Everything is just an opinion. Did you read THE END saga Immortal One? Did you see what Thanos did to Living Tribunal, Infinity, Eternity, The Celestials, Etc???LT and Spectre should be around the same power levels. LT patrols the Multiverse same as Spectre.
How can LT be equal to Thanos with the HOTU?
Your scenario on the other hand could very well happen though. Spectre could try to show Thanos the future if he wants to. That could cause him to give up the HOTU... But not likely. He's not the Messiah of the Marvel Universe. Warlock is. 🙂
So according to your logic plus my logic/theory,
Thanos with HOTU > Spectre Powered by Presence = Living Tribunal > Phoenix Force
Yup. That's the way I see it.
See this pic?
Thanos took everyone out in that pic. Blacked out the whole damn Multiverse. Then recreated it.
At the end of the day what you seem to be forgetting is that Specre is a part of god an aspect. Thanos is just tapping into a part of Gods power. On top of that Spectre is given jurisdiction to stop Thanos. In crossovers TOAA and Presence are one. As shown in previous crossovers such as where Phoenix was depicted as the Source. With that in mind if Thanos is wielding the HOTU and Spectre is ordered to stop him then of course he could. It stands to reason and after ive just said what i have i hope you can see that.
As for LT being beyond Phoenix in current continuity thats really not the case. Not only does Phoenix have far better on panel feats than him but on top of that its actually stated ON PANEL that Phoenix is LT'S natural end. Just from that you can gather that Phoenix is at least on his level but the fact that X-men Forever depicts how by tapping into Phoenixes power you can forget the natural order and bring about his end on your own timetable shows you Phoenix is greater. How can you ignore evidence like that? Through her power not only does the creation cycle come to an end but the whole multiverse and that happens cyclically. It doesnt get much greater than that.
On top of that AW, Thanos with HOTU absorbed a reality, one reality as shown on panel. It was depicted clearly that he absorbed Eternity and LT after defeating the heroes. Not multiple Eternities but one. Show me anywhere in The End which referred to him absorbing the multiverse? The very fact that after the absorption is finished Adam W appears saying hes come from another dimension tells you for definite that it wasnt the multiverse as there wouldnt have been another dimension for him to travel to and he would have been affected. So there you have it the multiverse theory is outta the window. He absorbed then recreated a universe.
At the end of the day what you seem to be forgetting is that Specre is a part of god an aspect. Thanos is just tapping into a part of Gods power. On top of that Spectre is given jurisdiction to stop Thanos. In crossovers TOAA and Presence are one. As shown in previous crossovers such as where Phoenix was depicted as the Source. With that in mind if Thanos is wielding the HOTU and Spectre is ordered to stop him then of course he could. It stands to reason .....
That's what I'm thinking too, GS. Guys, are lot of you are forgetting that in this thread, I wrote that Spectre is given a directive. Is this no different than The Presence/TOAA doing it himself?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
On top of that AW, Thanos with HOTU absorbed a reality, one reality as shown on panel. It was depicted clearly that he absorbed Eternity and LT after defeating the heroes. Not multiple Eternities but one. Show me anywhere in The End which referred to him absorbing the multiverse? The very fact that after the absorption is finished Adam W appears saying hes come from another dimension tells you for definite that it wasnt the multiverse as there wouldnt have been another dimension for him to travel to and he would have been affected. So there you have it the multiverse theory is outta the window. He absorbed then recreated a universe.
I dont see the problem for HOTUT destroying all reallty, he would do it all existence so easuly what he did to LT, and there is only one LT. But Thanos didnt even understand or listnened to his absolute power, he hasnt close discovered it. He could go beyond ime and multiverse, there were no limits to him.
Originally posted by Xplosive
I dont see the problem for HOTUT destroying all reallty, he would do it all existence so easuly what he did to LT, and there is only one LT. But Thanos didnt even understand or listnened to his absolute power, he hasnt close discovered it. He could go beyond ime and multiverse, there were no limits to him.
NoOnes denying that he could destroy all reality with HOTU what we're saying is that in The End he never destroyed all of reality, just one universe. That was his feat along with absorbing LT.
On top of that please understand that Thanos is just tapping into Gods power Spectre IS god he is an aspect of him so with jurisidiction like ke has in thi sthread of course he would win, just like Phoenix would win if it was the will of Marvels supreme being.
Going by feats HOTU hasnt done anything that Phoenix has been stated on panel to be capable of.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
NoOnes denying that he could destroy all reality with HOTU what we're saying is that in The End he never destroyed all of reality, just one universe. That was his feat along with absorbing LT.On top of that please understand that Thanos is just tapping into Gods power Spectre IS god he is an aspect of him so with jurisidiction like ke has in thi sthread of course he would win, just like Phoenix would win if it was the will of Marvels supreme being.
Going by feats HOTU hasnt done anything that Phoenix has been stated on panel to be capable of.
Tapping into God power is something that is beyond aspect of God.
Phoenix would be nothing for HOTU (in that time, LT was thought to be the most powerful, even for you GS, if today THOTU would happen again, even if Phoenix would intefere, you know how HOTU would be stopped, again, the one with HOTU should recreate evertyhing again). Phoenix or Spectre may be aspect of God, but THOTU, like it showed, was all God power, absolute power, that is why I said, tapping into God power is beyond being an aspect, whole is more than part.
Marvel clearly showed THOTU was beyond anything, so I think they also meant beyond Phoenix.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Going by feats HOTU hasnt done anything that Phoenix has been stated on panel to be capable of. [/B]
Forget feats, HOTU was part of the Marvel only for few issues, so how to have such feats. Phoenix is someone that we will always see.
But you know why we wont see HOTU ever again, cause its far too much to be brought back again, it would be meaningless to have HOTU again.
Thanos wasn't tapping inot God's power he was God. If you read the end you will see that God had set Thanos up to take over his jobe because all of theMultiverse was unraviling. Lt judges multiple realities if Thanos wiped him out with a mrere thought then he is as powerfull as the TOAA because TOAA abidcated his position to Thanos.