In GL Rebirth # 3, The Spectre is talking to Hal Jordan about Parallax. Here is some of what he said that proves hes not a aspect of God but a being used by God. The Spectre "I hoped by binding to your infected being. That I would have the ability to burn out this parallax like a disease. To Cast Vengeance upon it for all of the Death and Fear it spread throughout GOD'S Universe." The Last sentence says what??? that The Spectre is trying to cast vengeance upon it for everything its done. Hal was not about Vengeance he was about Redemption. to answer the question, that is only 1 instance where The Spectre talks about God as if he is another being NOT The Spectre being a aspect of God.
If you would like to look into The Spectre's history here is a site to do so, it also says in it how The Spectre works with The Spectre Force even when Jim was the Spectre. The Spectres old name was Aztar, he was renamed The Spectre because it fit with him using The Spectre Force... Before The Spectre(Aztar) was the Wrath of God , Eclipso was the Wrath of God and he used The Spectre Force but his name never changed it remained Eclipso..
http://www.dcuguide.com/profile.php?name=spectre
The Spectre is still a fallen angel who is serving God as his Wrath. He can even be killed but thats never happened (and probably won't ever happen unless God wants it to), often a few times hes had very big battles like the Anti-Monitor or Captian Marvel powered up with every DC Earth magic user.
Originally posted by kevdude
In GL Rebirth # 3, The Spectre is talking to Hal Jordan about Parallax. Here is some of what he said that proves hes not a aspect of God but a being used by God. The Spectre "I hoped by binding to your infected being. That I would have the ability to burn out this parallax like a disease. To Cast Vengeance upon it for all of the Death and Fear it spread throughout GOD'S Universe." The Last sentence says what??? that The Spectre is trying to cast vengeance upon it for everything its done. Hal was not about Vengeance he was about Redemption. to answer the question, that is only 1 instance where The Spectre talks about God as if he is another being NOT The Spectre being a aspect of God.If you would like to look into The Spectre's history here is a site to do so, it also says in it how The Spectre works with The Spectre Force even when Jim was the Spectre. The Spectres old name was Aztar, he was renamed The Spectre because it fit with him using The Spectre Force... Before The Spectre(Aztar) was the Wrath of God , Eclipso was the Wrath of God and he used The Spectre Force but his name never changed it remained Eclipso..
http://www.dcuguide.com/profile.php?name=spectreThe Spectre is still a fallen angel who is serving God as his Wrath. He can even be killed but thats never happened (and probably won't ever happen unless God wants it to), often a few times hes had very big battles like the Anti-Monitor or Captian Marvel powered up with every DC Earth magic user.
Juntai i really dont know what to think. Are you sure the Spectre Force isnt merely derived from the Logoz as opposed to actually being the sum total of it?
"I have not changed Hal -- you have! FOr at last you believe to the core of your being that there is hope... for yourself and the children of Earth. And in believing you have freed me from the tyranny of man's projections."
Hal: "This is your true face?"
"As best you can percieve it."
Hal: "Not a demon at all, you're a. . . a . . piece of God itself."
Then on page 14, for further backup..
"For far too long I have reflected darkness in the human heart. I have been everything they wanted me to be. For the moment at least, your belief has pierced the viel of The Wrath and revealed THE LOGOZ that lies beneath! But do you have the courage to continue seeing me this way? To overide the consesus of reality and embrace the possibilities of what you... what we... what the world...can become?"
Originally posted by BobbyD
So most of us are in agreement, then I take it? A Precense powered Spectre is basically an extension of The Precense Himself and would thus nullify Thanos with the HOTU, right?Great debates guys, seriously.
So what is the HOTU? Is that not in some form an extension of TOAA? I mean, it's basically his power. Thanos with the HOTU is basically an Eternal powered by the TOAA. What's the difference? Because Spectre is an aspect of the Presence/Logoz? Kevdude says he's still a fallen angel who is powered by god? What's the difference?
Thanos wiped everything out of the Multiverse. Only reason why Warlock was still there, because Warlock exists outside of Chaos and Order, and was not in the Multiverse at the time. He was babysitting.
What if the TOAA doesn't want the HOTU to be taken away from Thanos? What if the TOAA doesn't want Spectre to nullify Thanos with HOTU? Is it not the same? Can the will of one god triumph another?
Originally posted by Adam WarlockOne would assume that a being that is directly a piece of God itself is far more limitless than one merely tapping the power.
So what is the HOTU? Is that not in some form an extension of TOAA? I mean, it's basically his power. Thanos with the HOTU is basically an Eternal powered by the TOAA. What's the difference? Because Spectre is an aspect of the Presence/Logoz? Kevdude says he's still a fallen angel who is powered by god? What's the difference?Thanos wiped everything out of the Multiverse. Only reason why Warlock was still there, because Warlock exists outside of Chaos and Order, and was not in the Multiverse at the time. He was babysitting.
What if the TOAA doesn't want the HOTU to be taken away from Thanos? What if the TOAA doesn't want Spectre to nullify Thanos with HOTU? Is it not the same? Can the will of one god triumph another?
And he's not a fallen angel..
I just disproved that.
Originally posted by Adam Warlock
So what is the HOTU? Is that not in some form an extension of TOAA? I mean, it's basically his power. Thanos with the HOTU is basically an Eternal powered by the TOAA. What's the difference? Because Spectre is an aspect of the Presence/Logoz? Kevdude says he's still a fallen angel who is powered by god? What's the difference?Thanos wiped everything out of the Multiverse. Only reason why Warlock was still there, because Warlock exists outside of Chaos and Order, and was not in the Multiverse at the time. He was babysitting.
What if the TOAA doesn't want the HOTU to be taken away from Thanos? What if the TOAA doesn't want Spectre to nullify Thanos with HOTU? Is it not the same? Can the will of one god triumph another?
The HOTU only ever affected one reality, it ended one universe:
Originally posted by Adam Warlock
What if TOAA wills the HOTU not to be taken away by Spectre? Can the will of one god triumph over another? Wouldn't that lead to a clash between the TOAA and The Presence or Yahweh or Logoz or whatever the name of DC's supreme being is?
It would be a stalemate since its 2 opposing sides of the same thing.
Unfortunately, the thread starter just said Presence gives Spectre the nod, not Thanos.
Had it been the other way around, I would have voted Thanos.
Originally posted by Adam WarlockIt's irrelivent because it's not the case as it wasn't stated to be this way by the creator of the thread. This is someone tapping vast energies of god vs a piece of god itself with the backing of other aspects as well.
What if TOAA wills the HOTU not to be taken away by Spectre? Can the will of one god triumph over another? Wouldn't that lead to a clash between the TOAA and The Presence or Yahweh or Logoz or whatever the name of DC's supreme being is?
Guys, I even included TOAA in the initial thread, if you go back to look. Besides, why would someone makes a thread where The Presence gives one order and TOAA gives another? They are one and The Same Being.
It makes no difference if I said TOAA told Spectre to take stop Thanos with the HOTU. I merely said The Presence to keep it DCwise, and not confuse people.
In The Spectre history he is still a fallen Angel that is true. The Presence trasformed him into a being that has a connection with The Logos/The Word/GOD/Jesus. If a person wants vengeance then that is what The Spectre is used for, if the person wants redemption that is what The Spectre is used for. Its all about what the Host wants to do and how they both get along on there mission. There isn't really much left of the Fallen Angel Aztar because The Presence erased everything that was that Angel understand?? He isn't really the fallen angel anymore but he still has that backround and history. Hope that clears it up 🙂.
Originally posted by kevdudeNo it doesn't clear anything up, it's called retcon. Hal saw past The Wrath and found The Logoz. They have made no mention of him being a fallen angel since way back in the early days of Spectre.
In The Spectre history he is still a fallen Angel that is true. The Presence trasformed him into a being that has a connection with The Logos/The Word/GOD/Jesus. If a person wants vengeance then that is what The Spectre is used for, if the person wants redemption that is what The Spectre is used for. Its all about what the Host wants to do and how they both get along on there mission. There isn't really much left of the Fallen Angel Aztar because The Presence erased everything that was that Angel understand?? He isn't really the fallen angel anymore but he still has that backround and history. Hope that clears it up 🙂.
Spectre series 4 issue 4, page 12 and 13, a giant splash, the Spectre identifies itself as Logoz, a "Piece of God itself". And that "The Wrath" is all just what the multiverse percieves it as.
"I have not changed Hal -- you have! FOr at last you believe to the core of your being that there is hope... for yourself and the children of Earth. And in believing you have freed me from the tyranny of man's projections."
Hal: "This is your true face?"
"As best you can percieve it."
Hal: "Not a demon at all, you're a. . . a . . piece of God itself."
Then on page 14, for further backup..
"For far too long I have reflected darkness in the human heart. I have been everything they wanted me to be. For the moment at least, your belief has pierced the viel of The Wrath and revealed THE LOGOZ that lies beneath! But do you have the courage to continue seeing me this way? To overide the consesus of reality and embrace the possibilities of what you... what we... what the world...can become?"