On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, as to your last point, seeing as the Bible advocates the death penalty for homosexuals, it's not hard to see why some feel justified in taking a violent approach and also hard to reconcilke this idea that you love them anyway.

That is irrelevant in an case. This whole "we hate what they are but love them anyway" thing is condescending in the extreme and does not have the value you attach to it.

'Homophobia' has become a general rather than literal phrase for opposition to homosexuality, though it is well chosen because fear of what you do not understand is at the heart of nearly all such hate. You hide behind your religion for that, but the fact is the reason many religions are so opposed to homosexuality is precisely down to the fear of the people who wrote such holy books.

Opposition to homosexuality, as typified by the Christian view, is one of the greatest evils propogated by religion,m and the more time goes by, the more immoral people will see religion is for holding such views.

You are entitled to your opinion, and that is all it is, an opinion. But what I disseminate is Truth: the Word of the living God.

I know it makes sense in their own mind, but it is still condescending bullshit.

Homosexuality is fundamental to what a person is. Homosexuals are still engaged in an elongated struggle for their rights asnd for acceptance and it is absolutely not acceptable for that to be in the form of "We absolutely hate what you are, something very fundamental to what you are, but we think we love you anyway."

No. That is rejected. It is not enough and it is not really much better than outright hating them. For what they are to be hated is NOT what the rights movement has fought for. And for what they are to be hated is bigoted, intolerant and wrong.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
You are entitled to your opinion, and that is all it is, an opinion. But what I disseminate is Truth: the Word of the living God.

That it is the truth is simply your opinion.

Luckily, as time goes by, the world is increasingly becoming of the tolerant kind of opinion I espouse, and abandonding the intolerant, arrogant, judgmental and simply plain immoral kinds of opinion that religion espouses in this area.

Deservedly so, homosexuals are getting both the rights and the acceptance they have always sought. The attitudes that used to deny them either one is becoming condemend to the dustbin of history, along with slavery and other such wrongs which people used to promote.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well, as to your last point, seeing as the Bible advocates the death penalty for homosexuals, it's not hard to see why some feel justified in taking a violent approach and also hard to reconcilke this idea that you love them anyway.

That is irrelevant in an case. This whole "we hate what they are but love them anyway" thing is condescending in the extreme and does not have the value you attach to it.

'Homophobia' has become a general rather than literal phrase for opposition to homosexuality, though it is well chosen because fear of what you do not understand is at the heart of nearly all such hate. You hide behind your religion for that, but the fact is the reason many religions are so opposed to homosexuality is precisely down to the fear of the people who wrote such holy books.

Opposition to homosexuality, as typified by the Christian view, is one of the greatest evils propogated by religion,m and the more time goes by, the more immoral people will see religion is for holding such views.

Oh, and I hide behind nothing of that you can rest assured.

Judgemental? You mean Scriptural.

.

You don't think you do, sure. The words you quote have become so innate to you now that you don't see any more that you simply use them as a shield to cover your own intolerant views.

This view is exposed by the fact that, if pressed, you simply resort to the line "The Bible says it so it is true." That is a cowardly avoidance both of debate and trying to justify your views.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
This view is exposed by the fact that, if pressed, you simply resort to the line "The Bible says it so it is true." That is a cowardly avoidance both of debate and trying to justify your views.

No, its just the way the man is. I believe in The Bible, how does that make me a coward?

A person not willing to defend or justify his views on rational grounds becomes a coward when defending them.

A view that is not justified is weak and transitory.

It's also not a ncessary part of religion. Plenty of intelligent Christians enter into deep debate on the grounds for these issues. it is why I have respect, for example, for the Archbishop of Canterbury, who has shown very willing to engage, debate and justify.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I know it makes sense in their own mind, but it is still condescending bullshit.

Homosexuality is fundamental to what a person is. Homosexuals are still engaged in an elongated struggle for their rights asnd for acceptance and it is absolutely not acceptable for that to be in the form of "We absolutely hate what you are, something very fundamental to what you are, but we think we love you anyway."

No. That is rejected. It is not enough and it is not really much better than outright hating them. For what they are to be hated is NOT what the rights movement has fought for. And for what they are to be hated is bigoted, intolerant and wrong.

Can't control your emotions? Don't resort to using expletives you are better than that (I presume). Homosexuality is a choice. I don't hate homosexuals and neither does my Heavenly Father. Now, my friend Ush., we (the Father, Son Jesus, Holy Spirit, and mortal me) don't think that we love homosexuals--we know/do love homosexuals. You sound obsessed with the word hate. But you have not once heard it come from mouth. Get over it and refrain from the temptation to name-call.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But you have not once heard it come from mouth.

Ya can't argue with that.

A spade is a spade; bullshit is bullshit. Delude yourself into thinking you love homosexuals if you like, but your grounds appear ridiculous to the rational mind.

Homosexuals have far too long felt this 'love' from Christians, which ends up with them being oppressed and rejected just for which gender they happen to find attractive.

You might not say the word, JIA. But, although you no longer see it, if you ever did, what you say is part of an obfusctaed language of hate and fear, and it breeds both. You use words like 'abomination' and try to say there is no hate there? Such a view is contemptible.

It's not acceptable. Homosexual rights are something that havr to come on the basis of absolute equality. Anything short of that is wrong, and to deny it on the basis of religious dogma is unthinking and back to the area of hate.

Heavenly father loves homosexuals, so he sends them to hell to burn and be tortured for all eternity, and you support that. Sounds like father of the year material, right there.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You don't think you do, sure. The words you quote have become so innate to you now that you don't see any more that you simply use them as a shield to cover your own intolerant views.

This view is exposed by the fact that, if pressed, you simply resort to the line "The Bible says it so it is true." That is a cowardly avoidance both of debate and trying to justify your views.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
A spade is a spade; bullshit is bullshit. Delude yourself into thinking you love homosexuals if you like, but your grounds appear ridiculous to the rational mind.

Homosexuals have far too long felt this 'love' from Christians, which ends up with them being oppressed and rejected just for which gender they happen to find attractive.

You might not say the word, JIA. But, although you no longer see it, if you ever did, what you say is part of an obfusctaed language of hate and fear, and it breeds both. You use words like 'abomination' and try to say there is no hate there? Such a view is contemptible.

It's not acceptable. Homosexual rights are something that havr to come on the basis of absolute equality. Anything short of that is wrong, and to deny it on the basis of religious dogma is unthinking and back to the area of hate.

I'm a Catholic and believe in The bible, yet I have no hatred or illwill towards gay people.

Im sure JIA is the same way.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
A person not willing to defend or justify his views on rational grounds becomes a coward when defending them.

A view that is not justified is weak and transitory.

It's also not a ncessary part of religion. Plenty of intelligent Christians enter into deep debate on the grounds for these issues. it is why I have respect, for example, for the Archbishop of Canterbury, who has shown very willing to engage, debate and justify.

So God must justify His standard of right and wrong? God forbid. God justifies Himself to no one. I speak my God's Word and it speaks for itself.

Again, not name-calling, simply calling out.

I do have standards I live by, yes, and they are far closer to the standards of the liberated and moral part of the world than the ancient, twisted and archaic code you live by.

I'm sorry, JIA, but there is good reason that most countries have fundamentally rejected religion as the basis for their morals. It is because, time and again, religion's incompatibility with the basic rights of Man has been demonstrated. Preach all you like, but it is for a dying cause. Humans are moving beyond it, and sekeing better justifications for right and wrong than what is written in an old book, purported by some to be the Word of God but lacking evidence of either God or it being his word.

The standards you live by, in including things like calling homosexuality an abomination, are wrong.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I'm a Catholic and believe in The bible, yet I have no hatred or illwill towards gay people.

Im sure JIA is the same way.

Use words like 'abomination', support the repression and opposition to the concept of homosexuality, and you are talking the language of hate.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
A spade is a spade; bullshit is bullshit. Delude yourself into thinking you love homosexuals if you like, but your grounds appear ridiculous to the rational mind.

Homosexuals have far too long felt this 'love' from Christians, which ends up with them being oppressed and rejected just for which gender they happen to find attractive.

You might not say the word, JIA. But, although you no longer see it, if you ever did, what you say is part of an obfusctaed language of hate and fear, and it breeds both. You use words like 'abomination' and try to say there is no hate there? Such a view is contemptible.

It's not acceptable. Homosexual rights are something that havr to come on the basis of absolute equality. Anything short of that is wrong, and to deny it on the basis of religious dogma is unthinking and back to the area of hate.

I rest my case.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
So God must justify His standard of right and wrong? God forbid. God justifies Himself to no one. I speak my God's Word and it speaks for itself.

Everyone must justify such standards and reasons. If God exists, he is no different, and you simply saying he is means nothing.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I rest my case.

No, it appears all you did there was quote my post that exposed what you really are here.