On Homosexuality & Religion [Merged]

Originally posted by Ushgarak
I'm sorry, JIA, but there is good reason that most countries have fundamentally rejected religion as the basis for their morals. It is because, time and again, religion's incompatibility with the basic rights of Man has been demonstrated. Preach all you like, but it is for a dying cause. Humans are moving beyond it, and sekeing better justifications for right and wrong than what is written in an old book, purported by some to be the Word of God but lacking evidence of either God or it being his word.

Are you implying that religion itself will one day be gone? No longer practiced in any form?

Even in places like the US, Latin-America and the Middle East?

Originally posted by BackFire
Heavenly father loves homosexuals, so he sends them to hell to burn and be tortured for all eternity, and you support that. Sounds like father of the year material, right there.

God is Love and God is righteous Judge. If God did not judge sin then He will have compromised Who He is. He would cease to be righteous. If an earthly, human judge violates His responsiblity as judge he would no longer qualify as a judge.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
If an earthly, human judge violates His responsiblity as judge he would no longer qualify as a judge.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Again, not name-calling, simply calling out.

I do have standards I live by, yes, and they are far closer to the standards of the liberated and moral part of the world than the ancient, twisted and archaic code you live by.

I'm sorry, JIA, but there is good reason that most countries have fundamentally rejected religion as the basis for their morals. It is because, time and again, religion's incompatibility with the basic rights of Man has been demonstrated. Preach all you like, but it is for a dying cause. Humans are moving beyond it, and sekeing better justifications for right and wrong than what is written in an old book, purported by some to be the Word of God but lacking evidence of either God or it being his word.

The standards you live by, in including things like calling homosexuality an abomination, are wrong.

I hear more hate spewing from your mouth than I have ever heard anywhere else.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Use words like 'abomination', support the repression and opposition to the concept of homosexuality, and you are talking the language of hate.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Are you implying that religion itself will one day be gone? No longer practiced in any form?

Even in places like the US, Latin-America and the Middle East?

If it stays so very dogmatic, then yes. If you class Buddhism as a religion, then such things will probably stay around, as will innumerable spirutal mindsets that do not take a judgmental approach.

But with religion as an established and widespread part of a state, then history is showing us that as modern civilisation progresses, both the influence of and the following of religion declines.

The importance will go first, the membership slowly tails off afterwards.

Religion is fundamentally less important and powerful than it was a hundred years ago, and a hundred years ago it was the same proportion of importance lower than it had been a hundred years before that.

This has not just been a European phenomenon. The last century has seen religion as the focus of all torpedoed in countries such as Turkey. And much as many comment on the fundamentalist issues with Islam, these people used to rule Muslim countries. Nowe they are terrorists organisations within Muslim countries. The Taliban were headline news when they were in power. Fact is, a century before, nearly all the Middle East was so ruled.

The story is more or less absolute. Civilisation is slowly moving on beyond religion.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I hear more hate spewing from your mouth than I have ever heard anywhere else.

Hatred for evil and intolerance is justified.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is Love and God is righteous Judge. If God did not judge sin then He will have compromised Who He is. He would cease to be righteous. If an earthly, human judge violates His responsiblity as judge he would no longer qualify as a judge.

That's cute, god is love, so he sends people to be tortured and raped by demons. This sounds dangerously close to something a parent who just murdered their children would say - "I loved my children but they were possessed by demons so I killed them." The inane babbling of a sad victim of brainwashing, nothing more.

If an earthly, human judge sent a homosexual to be tortured for all eternity just because he's gay, then he would no longer qualify as a judge.

Quiero Mota - I'm glad to see your quotation function works.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
That is impossible. God is Love and His Words a words of love. One day you will stand before Him and give account for what you are saying today. Watch what you say.

Try as you might, you can never twist the calling of homosexuality as abomination and the calling for their execution (as the Bible so does) into 'words of Love'. That simply exposes how blinded you are.

I sense much anger emanating form you Ushgarak. I advise you to go and cool off.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
If it stays so very dogmatic, then yes. If you class Buddhism as a religion, then such things will probably stay around, as will innumerable spirutal mindsets that do not take a judgmental approach.

But with religion as an established and widespread part of a state, then history is showing us that as modern civilisation progresses, both the influence of and the following of religion declines.

The importance will go first, the membership slowly tails off afterwards.

Religion is fundamentally less important and powerful than it was a hundred years ago, and a hundred years ago it was the same proportion of importance lower than it had been a hundred years before that.

This has not just been a European phenomenon. The last century has seen religion as the focus of all torpedoed in countries such as Turkey, and much as well comment on the fundamentalist issues with Islam, these people used to rule Muslim countries. Nowe they are terrorists organisations within Muslim countries. The Taliban were headline news when they were in power. Fact is, a century before, nearly all the Middle East was so ruled.

The story is more or less absolute. Civilisation is slowly moving on beyond religion.

I'm not too sure about that, ey. Especially the 3 places I mentioned; The US, Latin-America and ME. Religion will not disappear in those areas for a VERY long time. Especially the latter two.

As for Turkey; sure the government is secular, but the people are still as religious as they were during the Ottoman.

It's not anger; simply contempt for blind, unjustified faith.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Hatred for evil and intolerance is justified.

Name-calling and using profanity are manifestations of hate. I have done neither.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I'm not too sure about that, ey. Especially the 3 places I mentioned; The US, Latin-America and ME. Religion will not disappear in those areas for a VERY long time. Especially the latter two.

As for Turkey; sure the government is secular, but the people are still as religious as they were during the Ottoman.

They certainly are not! Many of them are still religious but it is nowhere near the overriding part of their lives it used to be.

And my point remains. Yes indeed it might take a loing time. But as I say., history is showing us a universal pattern of religious decline. It might die slowly, but modern civilisation does indeed kill it.

But you have called a group of people abominations. But that's okay, Ush saying bullshit and coward is admittedly much much worse.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
history is showing us a universal pattern of religious decline. It might die slowly, but modern civilisation does indeed kill it.

That's a bit of a claim.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's not anger; simply contempt for blind, unjustified faith.

Let me help with the characterization:

2 Corinthians 5:7
For we walk by faith, not by sight.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him , for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Meaningless.

Try and justify things by reasoning and intelligent point making, JIA. Simply quoting scripture mans nothing because the means by which you think it speaks truth is not a rational process. Therefore it is meaningless to anyone you are actually trying to convince.

Originally posted by BackFire
But you have called a group of people abominations. But that's okay, Ush saying bullshit and coward is admittedly much much worse.

No I didn't. I said what the Bible said: that homosexuality--not the person---is an abomination.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
That's a bit of a claim.

I believe the facts support it.