Originally posted by FeceMan
Contrary to popular belief, homosexuals are people, too. Therefore, they have a tendency to sin.
* yes, homosexuals are people...
"This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."
I Timothy 2:3-4
* and they are not automatically damned to hell... simply put it this way, all religious denominations that preach homosexuals are damned to hell are not of-God and not according to the Bible... 😉
Gay Christians
It amazes me how many people, both Liberal and Conservative, Atheist and Christian alike, will be awkstruck by the fact that some Gay people happen to be devout Christians.
What's the Big Deal ? Why can't a Gay person be Christian, or how is it truly an oxymoron?
1) First some people will argue that it is hypocritical for a Gay Person to be a Christian, because homosexuality is a sin, and you can't sin and love Jesus at the same time...
Uhh...
YES YOU CAN !
Many Christians happen to be liars....
Many Christians happen to be adulterers....
Many Christians happen to be greedy.....
Many Christians happen to be hateful, jealous, or wrathful....
Many Christians happen to be judgemental (when Jesus made it clear we have no right to judge others).......
Many Christians happen to eat red meat on fridays....
Most Christians shave thier beards.....on a DAILY BASIS 😱
Most Christians wear polyester......
Many Christians even go so far as to QUESTION God and the Bible.....
ALL Christians happen to be Hypocrites (simply because all human beings are hypocrites at one time or another)
And guess what?
Many Christians ALSO happen to be GAY !
ALL CHRISTIANS ARE SINNERS...what makes ONE SIN worse than another ?
2) Second Argument would be that since the Bible is the foundation or basis of Christianity, and since it makes it clear that Homosexuality is abominable (atleast between two men), that if a Gay person embarks on a relationship with Christ, he or she must renounce thier sexualities, and practice becoming straight, to truly identify as Christian...for the sake of repentance, the only way to acheive salvation.
Flaws in that argument:
- First of all, The Bible is NOT the basis for Christianity. IT NEVER HAS BEEN.....the only attempt at foundation for Christianity is OUR INTEPRETATIONS OF THE BIBLE.
Historically, and even currently, intepretations of the Bible and that ACTIONS of Christian people are what SHAPE Christianity as a religion. The BIBLE BY ITSELF IS NEUTRAL.....and since it is a self contradicting, metaphorical book, it is not a foundation for anything....CHRISTIANS are the foundation for Christianity, not the Bible.
- And since we are on the topic of intepretations, NOT ALL Christians truly beleive Homosexuality is sinful. Feceman, biggest example. Many Christians beleive that the punishments of Sodom and Gomorrha were for other reasons, and that Paul's teaching of how two men sleeping together is abominable, is just a mistranslation....
-Christianity is a religion which is EVER CHANGING....it was evolved throughout the centuries, adding this, subtracting that.....it is PROVEN by history that Christianity is SHAPED by the people...not by the Bible. EVEN THE BIBLE IS SHAPED by the people as it has been editted, and re-editted, and re-translated, etc.
FACTS:
-Christianity has become less and less violent over the centuries
-Christianity has become more accepting of people's differences over time
-As time goes by, more and more Christians are accepting homosexuals as moral equals, and accepting homosexuality as an aspect of identity and/or neutral, not as a wretched thing...
-There are now Gay men becoming Priests, and there's even a Gay Bishop in the Vatican 😱
-Some Priests are even wedding Gay couples today
Probabilities:
Since Christianity is ever changing, ever-evolving, and has changed immensely over the millenia, chances are that in the future, Homosexuals will not be looked at as sinners simply for thier sexual choices, nor will they be discriminated against, or have thier civil rights violated by Christian organizations.
CAll it wishful thinking....call it whatever you want.....but its happening. Ultra Conservative Christianity is losing its power more and more, and people are waking up....
Christianity is CHANGING as is the rest of this world. Soon it will CATCH UP with the rest of us.
What do you guys think about this ?
Originally posted by Marxman
Christianity does not view homosexuality as a sin but rather the acting on those homosexual urges. If a gay man was to remain celibate his entire life then he is not sinning.
Not according to The Bible:
Matthew 5:27-28You have heard that it was said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why would a religion care how people have sex?
I'm not defending it. I'm just correcting a common mistake.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Not according to The Bible:
Most religions are based on more than just religious text. There is also tradition and teachings by the leaders.
But anyway, a sin is defined by the Church as a conscious action which separates us from God's love. A conscious action, thinking of a sin is not a sin. One can't help what one thinks.
Originally posted by Marxman
Most religions are based on more than just religious text. There is also tradition and teachings by the leaders.But anyway, a sin is defined by the Church as a conscious action which separates us from God's love. A conscious action, thinking of a sin is not a sin. One can't help what one thinks.
In other words, the church is correct, and Jesus is wrong.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
In other words, the church is correct, and Jesus is wrong.
Originally posted by FeceMan
Considering that Jesus didn't go into a whole lot of detail on some things, I'd say it's appropriate for we humans to use the tools available to use in order to try to understand and define certain issues in the Bible--such as what sin is.
Or maybe you should leave it alone. How do you that Jesus didn't have a good reason for not going into detail on some subjects?
* the meaning of SIN was said by Saint John here:
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
I John 3:4
* if a Christian (or someone claiming to be) transgresses the law of God in the Bible, he commits sin...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why would a religion care how people have sex?
* Buddhism is also a religion... and you said, it touches one's self and no external gods... sex is an issue about one's self... does Buddhism never tackles anything about sex?
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Not according to The Bible:Matthew 5:27-28
You have heard that it was said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
* this verse is also applicable to homosexuals... and if a homosexual does not look on same sex with lust, he/she did not commit any sin... he/she should find enough strength of faith to fight the urges...
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
In other words, the church is correct, and Jesus is wrong.
* Jesus is never wrong... if the Church is the one built by Christ, then the Church should be in accordance with Christ's teachings... if not, that is NOT the true Church...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Or maybe you should leave it alone. How do you that Jesus didn't have a good reason for not going into detail on some subjects?
* agreed... many religious denominations just create misinterpretations and misunderstandings... and one of these misinterpretations is that if you are a homosexual, you are automatically going straight to hell... which is clearly unbiblical... 😉