Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
God loves his childrenGod kill/smites/tortures/screws with/lies to his children
I would call that inconsistent
Gods kills His children?
Sometimes when the situation makes it necessary. However, sin makes all of us unworthy of eternal life and we die anyway. Death is way overrated on these forums.
God smites His children?
Only those that deserve it. It's part of the whole just and righteous thing.
God tortures His children?
No.
God screws with His children?
No.
God lies to His children?
No.
Inconsistent?
No. God's behaviour is extremely predictable. God has made it clear that there are consequences for our actions. When we take actions that are against God we accept the negative consequences that go with them.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
well the god being mean stuff is pretty constant in the OTso I guess the "god loves his children" part is wrong?
yeah god is 'mean' in the OT because he
a)gets rid of a city of people lusting to rape angels
b)makes it so the peeps of egypt who like to kill israelite babies have thier babies killed.
c)creates a world wide flood to prevent satan from completing destroying mankind
if thats your version of mean, id hate to see your version of nice 😆 🙄
Originally posted by supdude
yeah god is 'mean' in the OT because hea)gets rid of a city of people lusting to rape angels
b)makes it so the peeps of egypt who like to kill israelite babies have thier babies killed.
c)creates a world wide flood to prevent satan from completing destroying mankindif thats your version of mean, id hate to see your version of nice 😆 🙄
Yeah, I think killing babies (whatever their parents did) is usually pretty mean.
I am sure you agree with me as soon as it comes to "babies" that aren't born yet.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Woah, I am told we all have eternal life. Just some of us get the shitty tortured forever part. Cause we don't believe in a guy that made it seem most likely for us, that he does not exist.
On your second point, the evidence strongly suggests that Jesus was definitely a real person, whether or not you believe that he was what he said he was is a different question.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, I think killing babies (whatever their parents did) is usually pretty mean.I am sure you agree with me as soon as it comes to "babies" that aren't born yet.
remember god is omnipotent, omnisicient and and righteous dude...he may have took the babies lives..but the sinful lives they would have grown up in living with pharoah would have lead to much harsher consequences. in doing this action god actually saved quite a few souls from the ultimate punishment...which would have been the same punishment received by pharoah and those who followed him.
Originally posted by Nellinator
God smites His children?
Only those that deserve it. It's part of the whole just and righteous thing.
hes supposed to be all loving and impartial
Originally posted by Nellinator
God tortures His children?
No.
its called hell
and the plagues in egypt
and Job
etc etc
Originally posted by Nellinator
God screws with His children?
No.
declares certain beliefs to be morally wrong and then makes people have them
then theres abraham and the whole "kill your kid. No wait I'm just kidding." thing he did
had moses die before he goes into Cannan
Originally posted by Nellinator
God lies to His children?
No.
see Abraham
Originally posted by Nellinator
Inconsistent?
No.
Inconsistent?
Yes.
Originally posted by Nellinator
God's behaviour is extremely predictable. God has made it clear that there are consequences for our actions. When we take actions that are against God we accept the negative consequences that go with them.
Its not Gods place to judge us
if he has given us the ability to think for ourselves then he should respect our choices (its part of omnibenevolence)
Originally posted by Nellinator
Well yes, you are technically right, meaning that clarification is needed. By eternal life I meant heaven.On your second point, the evidence strongly suggests that Jesus was definitely a real person, whether or not you believe that he was what he said he was is a different question.
Well, though going by that I believe in Jesus.
I have to believe in his divinity. And well, that is most unlikely
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
hes supposed to be all loving and impartialits called hell
and the plagues in egypt
and Job
etc etc
how can god be 'all loving' if he doesnt punish those who like to hurt other people? thats freakin rediculous...
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
declares certain beliefs to be morally wrong and then makes people have them
😆
..question for you dude...wouldn't it make since and be easier for god just to make you love him? and who is making you declare your wrong beliefs in hear right now?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
then theres abraham and the whole "kill your kid. No wait I'm just kidding." thing he didhad moses die before he goes into Cannan
see Abraham
Inconsistent?
Yes.
the abraham story is a bit difficult to understand..but i kind of look at it from my personal perspective. i mean if i were god..i would kind of be like..should i really sacrafice my son for these people, if they aint willin to even meet me half way? hell..i use this rationale all the time with friends and family when they ask me to do something. i think abrahams righteousnous through faith in god, was an indication that that mankind still had the love of god within it..and was willing to meet god half way. it was also symbollic of gods love for mankind with the later sacrafice of his son. still i think that god being all loving and all would have provided some means for mankind to come to him anyway
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Its not Gods place to judge us
😆
whose place is it then?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
if he has given us the ability to think for ourselves then he should respect our choices (its part of omnibenevolence) [/B]
he does respect our choices..if he didnt we'd all be in hell now...😆
but obviously he doesnt want that, so hes provided a way for us to be with him again..we can choose to be with him or choose to be without him. being without him would kind of suck of course..cause everything good comes from him..so what do you think you end up with..when you you dont choose him..and god takes all that is good(which is him) from yourself from ya and this world?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
hes supposed to be all loving and impartialits called hell
and the plagues in egypt
and Job
etc etc
declares certain beliefs to be morally wrong and then makes people have them
then theres abraham and the whole "kill your kid. No wait I'm just kidding." thing he did
had moses die before he goes into Cannan
see Abraham
Inconsistent?
Yes.Its not Gods place to judge us
if he has given us the ability to think for ourselves then he should respect our choices (its part of omnibenevolence)
Hell, torture? No sorry, but the Bible does not teach that. Torment caused by oneself? Yes. Followed by utter destruction in the lake of fire? Yes.
Plagues? Torture, not really. That's more of a smiting thing. Job? Once again that was not God, Satan afflicted him, not God.
Moses not entering the promised land? God allowed him to see it, but would not allow him to enter until his generation had died because they were sinful and idolatrous. Its a good thing God brought them out of Egypt.
The Abraham issue was not a lie. Look what Abraham says in Genesis 22:8. "My son God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering." Abraham knew by faith that God would not cause him to sacrifice his son. However, Abraham proved to God that he was willingly to do whatever was required of him by God. Then, what did God do? God provided Abraham with a lamb as a replaced for Isaac. It becomes apparent that God indeed made it clear to Abraham that he would provide a an offering in Isaac's place. The story actually foreshadows Jesus sacrificing himself for us.
Inconsistent? What is it inconsistent with? God has a way of doing things and he follows that pattern for thousands of years right until Jesus. He is extremely consistent.
It is indeed God's place to judge us. God's perfection makes Him the only one worthy to judge us. God gave us free choice, giving us personal responsibility. God gives us the choice- believe or do not believe that Jesus was your Savior. He then respects our decision by awarding the eternal consequence of that choice. If God let unbelievers into Heaven He would not be respecting their choice.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Hell, torture? No sorry, but the Bible does not teach that. Torment caused by oneself? Yes. Followed by utter destruction in the lake of fire? Yes.
I really don't know where to begin
Originally posted by Nellinator
Plagues? Torture, not really. That's more of a smiting thing. Job? Once again that was not God, Satan afflicted him, not God.
really? He caused boils, blindess, slaughter of innocent children, turning water into blood, destroying all sources of food. You don't think that would cause massive psychological trauma.
God told Satan to do it. And even if he didn't its still his responsibility to protect humans (I think God could take Satan in a fight so why didn't he step in?)
Originally posted by Nellinator
Moses not entering the promised land? God allowed him to see it, but would not allow him to enter until his generation had died because they were sinful and idolatrous. Its a good thing God brought them out of Egypt.
"Want the cookie Moses. Do ya want it? Well to bad! You've been my greatest prophet but I'm still not letting you into the promised land because there were a couple bad eggs born around the same time as you."
Originally posted by Nellinator
Inconsistent? What is it inconsistent with? God has a way of doing things and he follows that pattern for thousands of years right until Jesus. He is extremely consistent.
his pattern of actions is consistent but information about him is not
since when does love = death by incineration and mass murder?
Originally posted by Nellinator
It is indeed God's place to judge us.
Its nobody's place to judge us 😠
If God created the world and there are people in it he dislikes then either he really messed up or is a total sadist
Originally posted by Nellinator
God gave us free choice, giving us personal responsibility. God gives us the choice- believe or do not believe that Jesus was your Savior. He then respects our decision by awarding the eternal consequence of that choice. If God let unbelievers into Heaven He would not be respecting their choice.
what about death at birth?
people born before Jesus?
people who have never heard of christianity?
do they go to hell because they never had a chance to accept Jesus?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I really don't know where to begin
translation: i have nothing biblical, scriptural, or factual to refute this.. on to teh next argument. 😆
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
really? He caused boils, blindess, slaughter of innocent children, turning water into blood, destroying all sources of food. You don't think that would cause massive psychological trauma.
yeah..like god didnt send moses to give pharoah a warning or anything about these plagues..🙄
and I'm sure it would have made much more since for moses to offer some flowers and wives to good ol pharoah to "let my people go" - particularly sense pharoah and the people of egypt were such a loving,compasionate, group of peeps to the isrealites..i mean..they only enslaved, tortured, and killed the israelites and thier children for years an all..no reason for god to inflict any righteous punishment on them..🙄
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
God told Satan to do it. And even if he didn't its still his responsibility to protect humans (I think God could take Satan in a fight so why didn't he step in?)
Job Chapter 1 verse 12: And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
where in the world does it say in that verse that god told satan to torture job? freaking rediculous..
now question for you bud..why didn't satan say.."ya know god this guy job seems like a pretty upright and just man. i dont want to do nothing to him, so i give him back to you?"
this would have solved a lot of problems for job dontcha think?
and did satan have a choice to torture or not to torture job?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
"Want the cookie Moses. Do ya want it? Well to bad! You've been my greatest prophet but I'm still not letting you into the promised land because there were a couple bad eggs born around the same time as you."
wtf?
complete misrepresentation of the story...if i remember correctly moses was punished from going into the land because of taking the power that god had given him(the walking stick that produced water from the ground) and forcefully striking it against the ground in anger. god had compassion on moses though, cause if the children of israel had not been whining and picking with him every second of the day..he prolly wouldnt have done it...so god still allowed him to see the land..and guess what..moses still gets to be in heaven with god!! so really if you think about it in the grand scheme of things..it was really kind of a light punishment..
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
his pattern of actions is consistent but information about him is notsince when does love = death by incineration and mass murder?
since when does love = allowing evil to continue to flourish with no consequence?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Its nobody's place to judge us 😠
exactly right.."no body" god dont possess "no body" cause he aint no human..so he is beyond the flesh..his thoughts are not your thoughts..and his ways are not your ways..he is perfect. how do i know this? well i have faith in it..and i figure if he aint perfect then both you and me my friend..would have been pretty much screwed a loooong time ago..he has the right to judge...and he is perfect in his judgement.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If God created the world and there are people in it he dislikes then either he really messed up or is a total sadist
if god created the world and didnt allow people to dislike him he wouldn't be loving..duhh...
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
what about death at birth?people born before Jesus?
people who have never heard of christianity?
do they go to hell because they never had a chance to accept Jesus?
god is loving dude...so being loving..this means that of course he is righteous and merciful....so if you have faith in his love, ya know that he will take all things into account..when deciding when judging who has and who has not choosen to be with him in heaven.
Originally posted by supdude
Job Chapter 1 verse 12: And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.where in the world does it say in that verse that god told satan to torture job? freaking rediculous..
right there
Originally posted by supdude
now question for you bud..why didn't satan say.."ya know god this guy job seems like a pretty upright and just man. i dont want to do nothing to him, so i give him back to you?"
cause hes Satan
never been his job to be nice to anyone
Originally posted by supdude
complete misrepresentation of the story...if i remember correctly moses was punished from going into the land because of taking the power that god had given him(the walking stick that produced water from the ground) and forcefully striking it against the ground in anger. god had compassion on moses though, cause if the children of israel had not been whining and picking with him every second of the day..he prolly wouldnt have done it...so god still allowed him to see the land..and guess what..moses still gets to be in heaven with god!! so really if you think about it in the grand scheme of things..it was really kind of a light punishment..
is say this to you
Originally posted by Nellinator
God allowed him to see it, but would not allow him to enter until his generation had died because they were sinful and idolatrous. Its a good thing God brought them out of Egypt.
now fight my pretties fight
Originally posted by supdude
exactly right.."no body" god dont possess "no body" cause he aint no human..so he is beyond the flesh..his thoughts are not your thoughts..and his ways are not your ways..he is perfect. how do i know this? well i have faith in it..and i figure if he aint perfect then both you and me my friend..would have been pretty much screwed a loooong time ago..he has the right to judge...and he is perfect in his judgement.
no God has no right to judge us if he gives us free will
if he does then he is as bad as humanity
Originally posted by supdude
god is loving dude...so being loving..this means that of course he is righteous and merciful....so if you have faith in his love, ya know that he will take all things into account..when deciding when judging who has and who has not choosen to be with him in heaven.
exatly, so they go to hell for not choosing Jesus
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Wow Nell, you just don't get it....God is a violent and wrathful being. He contradicts Love in its purest form.
Eternal Torment as punishment is not Love
Plagues are not Love
Killing children is not Love
Mass Murder is not Love
What part do you not fkn get ?
* excuse me, mr.urizen... do you believe in life after death? because if you do, none of those things matter... God is love... 😉