Originally posted by Tim RoutThat's one of the major problems I have with Christianity and the Bible. Words like all-loving, merciful, grace have definitions. And as words with definitions they can be compared to action of people be they fictional or not. And .. they just don't apply to God. He's not loving. He's not merciful. And he's not full of grace.
I should add...It is hardly surprising when non-Christians belittle the Bible and those who believe it. The Bible itself warns followers of Jesus that they will face this sort of disparagement . Christians tell others about the love of God and how Jesus died on the cross to save them from their sins, but critics have no regard for God's grace.
"I know very well how foolish the message of the cross sounds to those who are on the road to destruction. But we who are being saved recognize this message as the very power of God." [1 Corinthians 1:18/NLT]
One cannot come to know the love of God without first turning away from sin. And you cannot repent of your sins without first admitting that you're a sinner who deserves God's wrath. Pride is a terrible stumbling block for many people.
On the other hand, there are also those who hear the gospel message about Jesus and respond in faith to His call. All who place their trust in Jesus will be immediately received into the family of God [John 1:12; Romans 10:9].
It's insulting when Christians describe him as that, it is contrary to his attributed character. The words don't define the person, the actions do. And his are neither loving nor merciful.
Originally posted by Bardock42if i could meet u in real life id give u 5 bucks for that post, because it is COMPLETELY true. for example, the story of job. he kills his entire family and leaves him with nothing. god REALLY sounds like a dick in that one. and he did it over a bet 2
That's one of the major problems I have with Christianity and the Bible. Words like all-loving, merciful, grace have definitions. And as words with definitions they can be compared to action of people be they fictional or not. And .. they just don't apply to God. He's not loving. He's not merciful. And he's not full of grace.It's insulting when Christians describe him as that, it is contrary to his attributed character. The words don't define the person, the actions do. And his are neither loving nor merciful.
Originally posted by Bardock42
That's one of the major problems I have with Christianity and the Bible. Words like all-loving, merciful, grace have definitions. And as words with definitions they can be compared to action of people be they fictional or not. And .. they just don't apply to God. He's not loving. He's not merciful. And he's not full of grace.It's insulting when Christians describe him as that, it is contrary to his attributed character. The words don't define the person, the actions do. And his are neither loving nor merciful.
How can I, as a committed Bible believing Christian, possibly assert that God is loving and kind and merciful? After all, anyone who spends some time reading through the Bible will find many examples of God striking people dead in His wrath, or bringing plagues upon a whole nation, or sending countless millions to hell. The Bible says that God is jealous of those who worship other gods (since He claims to be the only true God), and will punish multiple generations of those who hate Him. How can any sane person possibly reconcile such a God with the concept of love?
It is important to remember that God is the sovereign King of all creation, not an all-you-can-eat buffet. We must either take Him as He presents Himself in the Bible, or reject Him altogether. We cannot pick and choose.
The Bible says God is above all things holy. This overarching holiness requires that He be completely loving, yet also completely just. In His justice, God must judge sin. In His love, God chooses to extend grace and forgiveness to those who will receive it. People who insist that God is only loving and not just, have chosen to believe a fairytale. But then, such is their right.
Originally posted by Tim Routas you mentioned in your post there is something i must bring up. how can you possibly say god is all loving when he sentences his creations to suffer for eternity. there is no justification for that. none. its like saying to your kid "i love you" while your toturing him. it doesnt work and it shouldnt work. how your view of the obvious can be so skewed is beyond me 🙁
How can I, as a committed Bible believing Christian, possibly assert that God is loving and kind and merciful? After all, anyone who spends some time reading through the Bible will find many examples of God striking people dead in His wrath, or bringing plagues upon a whole nation, or sending countless millions to hell. The Bible says that God is jealous of those who worship other gods (since He claims to be the only true God), and will punish multiple generations of those who hate Him. How can any sane person possibly reconcile such a God with the concept of love?It is important to remember that God is the sovereign King of all creation, not an all-you-can-eat buffet. We must either take Him as He presents Himself in the Bible, or reject Him altogether. We cannot pick and choose.
The Bible says God is above all things holy. This overarching holiness requires that He be completely loving, yet also completely just. In His justice, God must judge sin. In His love, God chooses to extend grace and forgiveness to those who will receive it. People who insist that God is only loving and not just, have chosen to believe a fairytale. But then, such is their right.
Originally posted by chickenlover98
if i could meet u in real life id give u 5 bucks for that post, because it is COMPLETELY true. for example, the story of job. he kills his entire family and leaves him with nothing. god REALLY sounds like a dick in that one. and he did it over a bet 2
You know, it's interesting.... You read the story of Job and immediately condemn God as a tyrant. I find it fascinating that Job did not. The Bible explicitly says that, even in the midst of his unspeakable grief, Job never sinned by accusing God of wrongdoing [Job 1:22]. It seems clear from the context of Job's book that he would strongly disagree with your statement.
Originally posted by Tim Routhe never accused god because he is a fool.if your god took away all your stuff killed your entire family and made your life miserable and you still would praise him i suggest you see a psychologist immediately. sounds like a case of holy stockholm syndrome. im gonna trademark that as a medical condition btw 😉
You know, it's interesting.... You read the story of Job and immediately condemn God as a tyrant. I find it fascinating that Job did not. The Bible explicitely says that, even in the midst of his unspeakable grief, Job never sinned by accusing God of wrongdoing [Job 1:22]. It seems clear from the context of Job's book that he would strongly disagree with your statement.
Originally posted by chickenlover98
as you mentioned in your post there is something i must bring up. how can you possibly say god is all loving when he sentences his creations to suffer for eternity. there is no justification for that. none. its like saying to your kid "i love you" while your toturing him. it doesnt work and it shouldnt work. how your view of the obvious can be so skewed is beyond me 🙁
Are you saying that a parent is incapable of loving his child even as he disciplines the child? Dear me...I certainly hope you're wrong.
I can only reiterate -- God is completely perfect [Matthew 5:48]. Holy justice demands that criminals be punished, and the Bible clearly says every human being is guilty of crimes against God [Romans 2:23]. The penalty for our crimes is death [Romans 6:23]. If God does anything OTHER than punish sin, then He is altogether unrighteous and therefore unworthy of our worship.
But again, I must emphasize that God in His mercy has made a way for us to be saved from the consequences of our sins. He sent His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to take our punishment on the cross. Jesus paid our death penalty, then rose from the grave as evidence that He really is the divine Son of God [Romans 1:4]. Anyone who will place his trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior, will be forgiven of his sins and made a child of God [John 1:12, 3:16-18; Romans 10:9].
So then, God's holy justice is satisfied, since someone (Jesus) was in fact punished for sins. And His infinite love is also satisfied, since God rescues sinners from death and takes them to be with Him in heaven, if only they will choose to accept the free gift Jesus offers.
But for those who do not receive Jesus' free gift of eternal life, judgment awaits. You see, somebody has to pay for your sins. Either you will charge your transgressions to the account of Christ's cross, or you will have to pay the bill yourself in hell.
Originally posted by Tim Routno im saying that it is impossible for god to "love" his "children" because he punishs them for FOREVER
Are you saying that a parent is incapable of loving his child even as he disciplines the child? Dear me...I certainly hope you're wrong.I can only reiterate -- God is completely perfect [Matthew 5:48]. Holy justice demands that criminals be punished, and the Bible clearly says every human being is guilty of crimes against God [Romans 2:23]. The penalty for our crimes is death [Romans 6:23]. If God does anything OTHER than punish sin, then He is altogether unrighteous and therefore unworthy of our worship.
But again, I must emphasize that God in His mercy has made a way for us to be saved from the consequences of our sins. He sent His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to take our punishment on the cross. Jesus paid our death penalty, then rose from the grave as evidence that He really is the divine Son of God [Romans 1:4]. Anyone who will place his trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior, will be forgiven of his sins and made a child of God [John 1:12, 3:16-18; Romans 10:9].
So then, God's holy justice is satisfied, since someone (Jesus) was in fact punished for sins. And His infinite love is also satisfied, since God rescues sinners from death and takes them to be with Him in heaven, if only they will choose to accept the free gift Jesus offers.
But for those who do not receive Jesus' free gift of eternal life, judgment awaits. You see, somebody has to pay for your sins. Either you will charge your transgressions to the account of Christ's cross, or you will have to pay the bill yourself in hell.
EDIT: i actually get the christ dying on the cross now. u explained that perfectly in the last sentence and its clear what that means now. i didnt really understand before that thx. and this again brings up the subject leonheartmm loves. if god is perfect he doesnt need love. because love is an imperfection which is caused by a chemical inbalance. so if ur saying god has hormones id LOOOOOOOOVVVVE to hear your argument.
PS: on a side note, wtf happened to leonheartmm? havent seen him on anywhere for a while
Originally posted by chickenlover98
he never accused god because he is a fool.if your god took away all your stuff killed your entire family and made your life miserable and you still would praise him i suggest you see a psychologist immediately. sounds like a case of holy stockholm syndrome. im gonna trademark that as a medical condition btw 😉
While I have not faced the sort of loss Job suffered, I have seen my share of heartbreak and faced my share of death. Call me what you will -- a madman, a fool, a mindless sheep -- I nevertheless speak with joy the words of faith first uttered by Job. "I brought nothing into this world and I can't take anything with me when I leave. The Lord has given. The Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord!" [Job 1:21]
Originally posted by Tim Routso its gods right to destroy people's lives???
While I have not faced the sort of loss Job suffered, I have seen my share of heartbreak and faced my share of death. Call me what you will -- a madman, a fool, a mindless sheep -- I nevertheless speak with joy the words of faith first uttered by Job. "I brought nothing into this world and I can't take anything with me when I leave. The Lord has given. The Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord!" [Job 1:21]