Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You attempted to equate homosexuality and pedophilia and knew perfectly well what you were doing. I reversed it as a form of humor.
In what way are they not equatable?
Heterosexuality= sexual attraction
Homosexuality= sexual attraction
Paedophilia = sexual attraction
seeing as sin's and laws are punishable by immediate death by god regardless of severity i have to assume that they are all equal in the eyes of the lord..
then u have jesus saying if u think about sin u have already sinned in the heart..
so yes all sins are equal not one is more punishable then the other..
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
As they should be yes...a sin's a sin. In Catholicism there is a difference though between Murder and shoplifting, lots of things including culpability are taken into account...fact is there is a judgement its not so black and white as- you stole a packet of crisps, go join the rapists and mass-murderers while the next lift arrives to take you to hell.Also, it only needs to be mentioned once- though it is mentioned more than that...
You're contradicting yourself. You say a sin's a sin but that some sins are worse than others, which is it?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
If a man loves a 13 year old girl, and she loves him and they are happy together- should it be permitted?
Sex between two consenting adults is very different than sex between an adult and a child. That's obvious.
Originally posted by Wild Shadow
seeing as sin's and laws are punishable by immediate death by god regardless of severity i have to assume that they are all equal in the eyes of the lord..then u have jesus saying if u think about sin u have already sinned in the heart..
so yes all sins are equal not one is more punishable then the other..
Where did you get that idea?
Originally posted by cococryspies
You're contradicting yourself. You say a sin's a sin but that some sins are worse than others, which is it?
Not really, any act could be considered wrong but some can be considered to cause more harm than others.
Originally posted by cococryspies
Sex between two consenting adults is very different than sex between an adult and a child. That's obvious.
Well, it depends how you define "adult" and how you can prove consent etc. Why isn't a mature twelve year old girl allowed to give consent? Are you allowed to take her rights from her because you judge her to be of lesser intelligence?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Not really, any act could be considered wrong but some can be considered to cause more harm than others.
That was my point, murder and other sins were stressed much more in the bible than homosexuality. SO obviously the writers weren't as concerned with it.
My view that it isn't a sin is because it doesn't cause harm to others. What do i care what to people do with themselves? It doesn't hurt me or anyone else. The only argument i've heard is that it threatens traditional marriage. What does that mean? Massachusetts, the first state in the US to legalize gay marriage, has the lowest divorce rate in the entire country.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Well, it depends how you define "adult" and how you can prove consent etc. Why isn't a mature twelve year old girl allowed to give consent? Are you allowed to take her rights from her because you judge her to be of lesser intelligence?
Legally, 'adult' is defined differently. But everyone can agree on the late teens area. A twelve year old can't be mature, your brain isn't even fully developed, neither is your body.
Originally posted by cococryspies
That was my point, murder and other sins were stressed much more in the bible than homosexuality. SO obviously the writers weren't as concerned with it.
Originally posted by cococryspies
My view that it isn't a sin is because it doesn't cause harm to others. What do i care what to people do with themselves? It doesn't hurt me or anyone else. The only argument i've heard is that it threatens traditional marriage. What does that mean? Massachusetts, the first state in the US to legalize gay marriage, has the lowest divorce rate in the entire country.
Its sinful because it offends God- why, is up to him. He's the creator, its his rules. Of course this isn't really applicable to non-religious folks which is why you don't here many of the established Churches calling for the execution of gays. (I am aware that america has allot of Evangelicals who do demand such a thing.)
The reason Christians oppose Gay Marriage is because they feel it represents a big loss in their religions clout over the country.
Originally posted by cococryspies
Legally, 'adult' is defined differently. But everyone can agree on the late teens area. A twelve year old can't be mature, your brain isn't even fully developed, neither is your body.
Well, again thats YOUR definition of mature, or even worse the states...why do they have a right to interfere in this way? Can they prove that all cases of paedophilia are harmful to the child?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
There are so many things wrong with that statement. 😖
Such as?
You assert that the Bible condemns homosexuality only a few times compared to other sins it lists allot and there for suggest this means it wasn't viewed as a major sin. Maybe true, or more likely rampant homosexuality was not something the Jews really faced in their society...also even if it was true and it was not viewed as a major sin- it is still a sin and is still condemned. Saying "well they only condemn it a few times but condemn murder lots and lots of times so I guess homosexual acts aren't really that bad..." is untrue- clearly they are.
The latter part, being gay isn't a sin...
Thou shalt not lie with a man as thou lies with a woman.
Nowhere does that say, you shall not be attracted to men or you shall not have feeling for men- how could it, these are things you largely cannot control. Thus, as the Church teaches, being gay or isn't a sin- its acting upon it.
Homosexuality is the same as adultery or any form of sex outside marriage- because that is what Leviticus was condemning.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-GavWell first off I have never "assert" anything about how many times it came up in the Bible.
Such as?You assert that the Bible condemns homosexuality only a few times compared to other sins it lists allot and there for suggest this means it wasn't viewed as a major sin. Maybe true, or more likely rampant homosexuality was not something the Jews really faced in their society...also even if it was true and it was not viewed as a major sin- it is still a sin and is still condemned. Saying "well they only condemn it a few times but condemn murder lots and lots of times so I guess homosexual acts aren't really that bad..." is untrue- clearly they are.
The latter part, being gay isn't a sin...
Thou shalt not lie with a man as thou lies with a woman.
Nowhere does that say, you shall not be attracted to men or you shall not have feeling for men- how could it, these are things you largely cannot control. Thus, as the Church teaches, being gay or isn't a sin- its acting upon it.
Homosexuality is the same as adultery or any form of sex outside marriage- because that is what Leviticus was condemning.
It also doesn't say that "Thou shalt not lie with a hermaphrodite as thou lies with a woman", it also doesn't say that "Thou shalt not lie with a rubber doll as thou lies with a woman". So then you get into the question as to what is considered "sex" by the Bible standards which I have never read or have been told a clear definition of what that is for anyone in Christianity.
So if you were gay and married it would then not be a sin?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
That doesn't change the fact its sinful and wrong- lets just clarify its the having sex outside marriage thats wrong, not being gay.Its sinful because it offends God- why, is up to him. He's the creator, its his rules. Of course this isn't really applicable to non-religious folks which is why you don't here many of the established Churches calling for the execution of gays. (I am aware that america has allot of Evangelicals who do demand such a thing.)
I don't understand how you can believe something without analyzing it. There's no logical reason why 'it offends god'. I don't see how something that doesn't cause any harm can be wrong.
There are plenty of Christians who reject some of the things said in the Bible. For instance the death penalty is either reserved for severe cases or banned all together, women are considered equal to men, and many Christians don't see anything wrong sex outside of marriage. But the opinion of obvious sins like murder hasn't changed since the bible was written, because the reason for it being a sin is obvious.
Can you tell me any other reason for homosexuality being a sin, other than "cause the Bible said so"?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Well, again thats YOUR definition of mature, or even worse the states...why do they have a right to interfere in this way? Can they prove that all cases of paedophilia are harmful to the child?
That's not my definition of 'mature', that's science. Your body isn't developed at twelve, so how the hell can you have sex? There can be physical harm to a child. And any psychologist will tell you that 12 year olds are not mentally developed enough to give consent and that it causes severe damage to children. Given how many cases result in harm to child, admitting that perhaps there have been a few cases where a child was fine doesn't disprove that it is, 99% of the time, wrong. It isn't comparable to homosexuality.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Well first off I have never "assert" anything about how many times it came up in the Bible.It also doesn't say that "Thou shalt not lie with a hermaphrodite as thou lies with a woman", it also doesn't say that "Thou shalt not lie with a rubber doll as thou lies with a woman". So then you get into the question as to what is considered "sex" by the Bible standards which I have never read or have been told a clear definition of what that is for anyone in Christianity.
So if you were gay and married it would then not be a sin?
Oh your right it was that crocyguy...
Onan's story would probably rule out sex with rubber dolls...
Also leviticus is clearly trying to establish that sex is between one man and one woman anything else is sinful- hermaphrodites can still be male or female as I understand it...difficult issue that one, however specific issues aren't enough to challenge an entire law.
Well, since men cannot marry men it would have to be a woman he was married to and having sex with.
Originally posted by cococryspies
I don't understand how you can believe something without analyzing it. There's no logical reason why 'it offends god'. I don't see how something that doesn't cause any harm can be wrong.
Well, according to God it does....so thats just that ain't it.
Originally posted by cococryspies
There are plenty of Christians who reject some of the things said in the Bible. For instance the death penalty is either reserved for severe cases or banned all together, women are considered equal to men, and many Christians don't see anything wrong sex outside of marriage. But the opinion of obvious sins like murder hasn't changed since the bible was written, because the reason for it being a sin is obvious.
Yes there are many Christians who reject parts of the Bible, thats there decision, I find it often to be a bit of a get out to be honest...I don't like that bit so I'll just ignore it...not really folllowing the religion is it?
Originally posted by cococryspies
Can you tell me any other reason for homosexuality being a sin, other than "cause the Bible said so"?
Seems like an odd question...sin is a religious concept, why should there need to be extra-evidence for something being sinful that it appearing in the religions Holy Text? Though, I guess to answer your question "the Church says so" is fine enough.
Originally posted by cococryspies
That's not my definition of 'mature', that's science. Your body isn't developed at twelve, so how the hell can you have sex? There can be physical harm to a child. And any psychologist will tell you that 12 year olds are not mentally developed enough to give consent and that it causes severe damage to children. Given how many cases result in harm to child, admitting that perhaps there have been a few cases where a child was fine doesn't disprove that it is, 99% of the time, wrong. It isn't comparable to homosexuality.
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Well, according to God it does....so thats just that ain't it.Yes there are many Christians who reject parts of the Bible, thats there decision, I find it often to be a bit of a get out to be honest...I don't like that bit so I'll just ignore it...not really folllowing the religion is it?
Are you saying that you follow the bible on every issue? Do you believe we should stone adulterers? Are women "weaker vessels"? How do you feel about polygamy?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Well see, I dunno if your totally right there...surely its the individual childs/parents right to decide on these matters of when they are or are not ready? And not yours or the states?
A child can't "decide" when he/she goes through puberty.
Originally posted by cococryspies
Are you saying that you follow the bible on every issue? Do you believe we should stone adulterers? Are women "weaker vessels"? How do you feel about polygamy?
Jesus said stoning adulterers was no longer necessary. I am unsure what context the weaker vessel part comes from and polygamy was denounced as sinful by God
Originally posted by cococryspies
A child can't "decide" when he/she goes through puberty.
No but they can choose who they love surely?
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
Jesus said stoning adulterers was no longer necessary. I am unsure what context the weaker vessel part comes from and polygamy was denounced as sinful by God
So Jesus analyzed stoning, saw that it wasn't right, and changed it. Can't we do the same. If your opinion is that the Bible is the true word of God, how is it that the writers got it stoning wrong? Isn't it possible they got other things wrong?
Polygamy was never denounced in the Bible, only by the Church. So once again something has been changed.
"Likewise, you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." 1 Peter 3:7
Originally posted by Grand-Moff-Gav
No but they can choose who they love surely?
"Love" is different than "****"
Originally posted by cococryspies
So Jesus analyzed stoning, saw that it wasn't right, and changed it. Can't we do the same. If your opinion is that the Bible is the true word of God, how is it that the writers got it stoning wrong? Isn't it possible they got other things wrong?Polygamy was never denounced in the Bible, only by the Church. So once again something has been changed.
"Likewise, you husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered." 1 Peter 3:7
God denounced what Abraham did and had Daniel renounce polygamy.
Also, are you God incarnate? It isn't that they got stoning wrong- they got it right! However Jesus' mission changed the state of the earth- his death which redeemed mankind meant the Jewish people had completed their mission of creating a society in which the messiah could be born...