Last-Gen Console Discussions (PS3, Xbox 360, Wii)

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"If blu-ray sells the ps3 like hot cakes then the PS3 will sell more games because more people will own it."

Not that that logic is necessarily wrong, but nor is it necessarily certain- similar logic completely failed with the PSP.

Due to outside factors which we are unable to predict, but the PS3 is not as easy to pirate game on as the PSP and as of now there are no hacks to play downloaded games for the ps3 so the psp’s faith doesn’t seem to be the same as the ps3. Side note there are already 2 ways to hack a wii to play games for free.

Yes the airwaves are being required to go HD for all that run air waves. I wasn't talking about the DTV conversion which will be finished in 02-2009, but now that you’re on the subject the main reason for DTV switch is to allow HD channels. Yes you can still run both sdtv and edtv, but the main reason for the switch was to make use of HDtv's.

So far the first year of blu-ray is doing better than the first year of DVD. Most of you are not old enough but when DVD first come out it didn't sell much and nobody really wanted it. But after a few years and the help of the PS2 dvd became the standard. So considering Blu-ray is in its infancy the sell are actually very very good, and if it has an exponential growth like DVD ps3’s will become very hard to find.

I'd bet a lot that PS3 pirating becomes much more rampant than Wii.

The PS3's already been hacked, actually, I think.

And, uh, dirk? If none of us were old enough to remember when DVDs came out, we wouldn't be old enough to be on the forum. And DVD sales started picking up before the PS2 came out. Not after.

Originally posted by dirkdirden
Yes the airwaves are being required to go HD for all that run air waves. I wasn't talking about the DTV conversion which will be finished in 02-2009, but now that you’re on the subject the main reason for DTV switch is to allow HD channels. Yes you can still run both sdtv and edtv, but the main reason for the switch was to make use of HDtv's.

Dammit, no. Why can't you get this through your head? Since only a small percent of people have HDTVs, they would never go through a mandatory HD conversion. The average populace would destroy them.

So far the first year of blu-ray is doing better than the first year of DVD. Most of you are not old enough but when DVD first come out it didn't sell much and nobody really wanted it. But after a few years and the help of the PS2 dvd became the standard. So considering Blu-ray is in its infancy the sell are actually very very good, and if it has an exponential growth like DVD ps3’s will become very hard to find.

*headdesk*

That was in '97. It is now '07. If anyone was not old enough to remember when DVDs debuted, they woulldn't be on this forum!

DVDs finally caught on in '99, and the PS2 came out soon after and rode DVDs' popularity to high sales.

And again, no, Blu-Ray is not selling well, and neither is HD-DVD.

Originally posted by Lana
Also, on the age thing...can I just point out that the core demographic that just about EVERYTHING is marketed towards (in the US, at least) is between the ages of 18 and 35? That's the main 'buying population' everyone tries to capture.

Not for Blu-ray/PS3 the age range is more like 25-45 and I don't know many 18 year olds that can buy an HDtv and Bluray player. They are not targeting people who serve French fries because they don't have the lettuce to buy what they are selling. They are targeting people with money and most people don't have that kind of money until a few years after college around 24 to 25. So really the buying market is 24-45. They target little kids but there parents are who buys it and they are in the 24-45 range (maybe older).

GK you say you do research then you should look up the sales of HDtv's vs non HDtv for last year, and maybe even look as sales so far for this year.

You’re not a part of the buying market that’s not an insult it's just a fact. You don't sell BMW's first graders because they are not your target market, hell you don't even sell BMW's to high school kids because High school kids have no money. Same logic applies and it shouldn't be insulting your young having no money comes with that.

Yes you have to pay 4100 for the set up, and you are also forgetting surround sound system which makes it more around 5000. That seems like a lot of money to you because your not in the market. If you made 100,000 a year 5000 is chump change. And when you get the results of your HDTV research you will see just how fast and how much HDTV is selling. Also you can get 52” HDTV’s for less than 1000.

2 other computer teck forums I post on almost everyone has HDTV's because they all make a lot of money.

And lastly if you put a dvd and blu-ray side by side both running on a large 1080p tv and you can’t tell the difference there is something wrong with you, you may not be dense but there is something wrong with your mind or eye site.

Originally posted by dirkdirden
Not for Blu-ray/PS3 the age range is more like 25-45 and I don't know many 18 year olds that can buy an HDtv and Bluray player. They are not targeting people who serve French fries because they don't have the lettuce to buy what they are selling. They are targeting people with money and most people don't have that kind of money until a few years after college around 24 to 25. So really the buying market is 24-45. They target little kids but there parents are who buys it and they are in the 24-45 range (maybe older).

GK you say you do research then you should look up the sales of HDtv's vs non HDtv for last year, and maybe even look as sales so far for this year.

You’re not a part of the buying market that’s not an insult it's just a fact. You don't sell BMW's first graders because they are not your target market, hell you don't even sell BMW's to high school kids because High school kids have no money. Same logic applies and it shouldn't be insulting your young having no money comes with that.

Yes you have to pay 4100 for the set up, and you are also forgetting surround sound system which makes it more around 5000. That seems like a lot of money to you because your not in the market. If you made 100,000 a year 5000 is chump change. And when you get the results of your HDTV research you will see just how fast and how much HDTV is selling. Also you can get 52” HDTV’s for less than 1000.

2 other computer teck forums I post on almost everyone has HDTV's because they all make a lot of money.

And lastly if you put a dvd and blu-ray side by side both running on a large 1080p tv and you can’t tell the difference there is something wrong with you, you may not be dense but there is something wrong with your mind or eye site.

Alrighty, research time.

US households with HDTVs: 24 million. However, only half of these are actually receiving HD programming.

US population: Over 300 million.

So HDTV sales are less than 10% of the population. Not exactly impressive sales numbers, considering that TVs are pretty much a requirement nowadays.

Median income of all households: $46,326. So for the average population, yes, an HDTV is a major purchase. Even without food, house and utility payments, gas, repairs, and all that stuff, an average HDTV is more than a 10th of the average person's yearly income. That is not, as you put it, "chump change."

I know there is a difference in the quality between DVD and Blu-Ray, but it is relatively small, and not worth $5000.

Originally posted by Lana
The PS3's already been hacked, actually, I think.

And, uh, dirk? If none of us were old enough to remember when DVDs came out, we wouldn't be old enough to be on the forum. And DVD sales started picking up before the PS2 came out. Not after.

No the ps3 has not been hacked in a way that every day people can use, the Wii mode chip, and ISO'ing the games.

DVD’s came out in 1995 not 1997. From 1995 to 1997 its first two years it almost sold nothing.

and lets do some math lets say you are 20 years old that would make you 8 when dvd's first came out. Now at 8 years old you’re telling me that you remember how the sells were going. And you remember that DVD was doing so much better in its first year than blu-ray is in its first year.

You are not old enough to actually remember DVD coming into power and 8 or even 10 years old all you care about is what cartoon to watch not what format to watch the cartoon on. So again you are too young to have paid attention to DVD’s progression.

DVD sales exploded after PS2 launched. DVD would have been successful without the PS2 yes but it did help there sales.

And yes only a small percent of people have HDtvs…..but the percent of non HDTV’s being sold is even smaller almost all tv’s sold today are HDtv’s its only a matter of time before all tv’s are hd.

Originally posted by dirkdirden
You are not old enough to actually remember DVD coming into power and 8 or even 10 years old all you care about is what cartoon to watch not what format to watch the cartoon on. So again you are too young to have paid attention to DVD’s progression.

DVDs started selling properly in '99. I was 10 then, and already a devoted gamer with an interest in electronics advances. Yes, I remember DVD "coming into power" and I remember even then knowing it was better because my Star Wars tapes were so bloody overused at that point.

DVD sales exploded after PS2 launched. DVD would have been successful without the PS2 yes but it did help there sales.

No, you have it backwards. DVDs sold PS2s because a PS2 was cheaper than average DVD players at the time.

And yes only a small percent of people have HDtvs…..but the percent of non HDTV’s being sold is even smaller almost all tv’s sold today are HDtv’s its only a matter of time before all tv’s are hd.

...You cannot be serious. There is no way.

No duh HDTVs are selling more than standard nowadays. Because TVs are required in today's lifestyle, everyone already has a TV. You don't buy something you already have. This should be obvious.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
DVDs started selling properly in '99. I was 10 then, and already a devoted gamer with an interest in electronics advances. Yes, I remember DVD "coming into power" and I remember even then knowing it was better because my Star Wars tapes were so bloody overused at that point.

No, you have it backwards. DVDs sold PS2s because a PS2 was cheaper than average DVD players at the time.

...You cannot be serious. There is no way.

No duh HDTVs are selling more than standard nowadays. Because TVs are required in today's lifestyle, everyone already has a TV. You don't buy something you already have. This should be obvious.

hahaha you are very silly. You don't buy something you already have ok lets test that logic. I have shoes so I don't need to ever buy new shoes check. I have clothes so I don't ever need to buy new clothes check. I have a car so I will never need to buy a new car check. I have light bulbs so I will never have to buy new light bulbs. I have a computer so I will never need to buy a new computer.

your logic is invalid, and you proved my point with it.

Originally posted by dirkdirden
hahaha you are very silly. You don't buy something you already have ok lets test that logic. I have shoes so I don't need to ever buy new shoes check. I have clothes so I don't ever need to buy new clothes check. I have a car so I will never need to buy a new car check. I have light bulbs so I will never have to buy new light bulbs. I have a computer so I will never need to buy a new computer.

your logic is invalid, and you proved my point with it.

Nice try, but your logic fails. No, you don't need to buy new shoes, or clothes, or cars, or light bulbs, or computers. Not until they break, tear, catch fire, or otherwise become unusable. At that point, you buy a replacement.

TVs tend to last far longer than most of your examples. My TV, for instance, is a good 10 years old and still works perfectly for my gaming needs.

So sorry, but your attempts at trying to make me look silly ended up with you entirely missing the point. Which sadly seems to be becoming par for the course.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Nice try, but your logic fails. No, you don't need to buy new shoes, or clothes, or cars, or light bulbs, or computers. Not until they break, tear, catch fire, or otherwise become unusable. At that point, you buy a replacement.

TVs tend to last far longer than most of your examples. My TV, for instance, is a good 10 years old and still works perfectly for my gaming needs.

So sorry, but your attempts at trying to make me look silly ended up with you entirely missing the point. Which sadly seems to be becoming par for the course.

And in turn everything I listed will need to be replaced just as your 10 year old TV will need to be replaced......my logic has no flaw. You are wrong HD will be the majority soon and that will boost both Blu-ray and PS3 sales(an attempt to get back on topic) so enough of your silly denial save some face and stop posting becuase your wrong.

Only about 8% of people own HDTVs now, the majority of people certainly will NOT own them anytime soon. Maybe 10 years off. But that's not really soon.

Originally posted by dirkdirden
I think you're stupid. so enough of your silly denial save some face and stop posting becuase your wrong.

Funny... I'm the one who provides sales, population figures, and logical conclusions, and you're telling me I'm wrong, without any evidence whatsoever?

And you want me to stop posting? Sorry, but as long as misconceptions like HDTVs being cheap and selling alot are around, I consider it an act of kindess to educate people. People deserve to know the truth. Do you not want me to be kind? Do you not want people to know things?

sony just might have an own brand product that catches on this time with blu-ray...because they've been busy in the last few years buying up huge numbers of film and tv production companies such as columbia tristar and Metro Goldwyn Mayer (MGM). they also have a joint venture called movielink with paramount, universal and warner bros for online distribution

i believe at last estimate it gives them the rights to 60% of all the films ever made....a pretty strong position if you monopolise the market and only make those films available on your own format...

remains to be seen if thats actually legally allowed though

Originally posted by Lana
Only about 8% of people own HDTVs now, the majority of people certainly will NOT own them anytime soon. Maybe 10 years off. But that's not really soon.

nice guess but again your baseing this off of nothing but your opinion.

http://abc.go.com/site/hdtvfaq.html

Looks like in 3 years it will be at 81%. so it will have the majority in around 2 more years.......which is right when the ps3 will start released some very impressive games.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Funny... I'm the one who provides sales, population figures, and logical conclusions, and you're telling me I'm wrong, without any evidence whatsoever?

And you want me to stop posting? Sorry, but as long as misconceptions like HDTVs being cheap and selling alot are around, I consider it an act of kindness to educate people. People deserve to know the truth. Do you not want me to be kind? Do you not want people to know things?

Again you should be quite because you are wrong. HD is huge and only going to keep growing. You show nothing but what you want to see.

http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/6MTyEIWF1D6Bhc/Look-Past-the-Living-Room-How-to-Sustain-HDTV-Sales.xhtml

and this article is very old and it's already at 30%.

and jaden101 sony doesn't own Blu-ray. The Blu-ray group is who owns blu-ray.

Apple
Dell
Hewlett-Packard
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.

They own Blu-ray because they fund it, Sony just implements it.

Originally posted by dirkdirden
nice guess but again your baseing this off of nothing but your opinion.

http://abc.go.com/site/hdtvfaq.html

Looks like in 3 years it will be at 81%. so it will have the majority in around 2 more years.......which is right when the ps3 will start released some very impressive games.

No, that's not just her opinion. Did you not read my figures?

US households with HDTVs: 24 million. However, only half of these are actually receiving HD programming.

US population: Over 300 million.

That's fact. 24 million / 800 million = 0.08, or 8 percent.

And all the speculation is just that, speculation. Not hard facts.

Oh, and thanks for the link, that proves that standard TV signals will still be sent:

ABC will continue to broadcast our quality programming in standard definition as well as HD...

Hmm... I see no talk of mandatory HD there, do you?

Originally posted by General Kaliero
No, that's not just her opinion. Did you not read my figures?

US households with HDTVs: 24 million. However, only half of these are actually receiving HD programming.

US population: Over 300 million.

That's fact. 24 million / 800 million = 0.08, or 8 percent.

And all the speculation is just that, speculation. Not hard facts.

Oh, and thanks for the link, that proves that standard TV signals will still be sent:

Hmm... I see no talk of mandatory HD there, do you?

Your figures are wrong, and out dated. You should stop posting becuase your wrong and just making yourself look bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdtv

Mandatory Hd or digital - almost all stations went HD.

FCC Deadline
Starting March 1, 2007, new television sets that receive signals [over-the-air] must include digital or HDTV tuners for digital broadcasts, including pocket sized portable televisions. By 2009, all U.S. television broadcasts will be exclusively digital, by order of the Federal Communications Commission. For those who do not wish to upgrade their analog televisions, an external tuning device can simply be added to convert the digital signal. Currently, even the earliest televisions continue to work with present broadcast standards. This mandate was designed to help provide a painless transition to the new standards.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

Digital does NOT automatically mean HD.

And your wiki link you posted supports Kaliero's numbers.

Originally posted by dirkdirden
Your figures are wrong, and out dated. You should stop posting becuase your wrong and just making yourself look bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdtv

Mandatory Hd or digital - almost all stations went HD.

FCC Deadline
Starting March 1, 2007, new television sets that receive signals [over-the-air] must include digital or HDTV tuners for digital broadcasts, including pocket sized portable televisions. By 2009, all U.S. television broadcasts will be exclusively digital, by order of the Federal Communications Commission. For those who do not wish to upgrade their analog televisions, an external tuning device can simply be added to convert the digital signal. Currently, even the earliest televisions continue to work with present broadcast standards. This mandate was designed to help provide a painless transition to the new standards.

If you're so sure my figures are wrong, prove it. I've yet to see you give any figures. Although, the wiki link you posted supports my numbers, thank you.

And here, I'll help you to figure out what the FCC mandate means, since you apparently cannot comprehend it on your own.

"All newly manufactured television sets that receive signals must include digital or HDTV tuners for digital broadcasts." This means broadcasts will be sent out digitally, in ones and zeros, because it allows for a sharper picture and less interference with the signal. HD tuners are allowed because HD receivers get standard digital broadcasts anyway.

"By 2009, all U.S. television broadcasts will be exclusively digital" Digital, not High-Definition.

"For those who do not wish to upgrade their analog televisions, an external tuning device can simply be added to convert the digital signal." This device converts digital signals back into analog so that analog-only TVs can receive it. Note that this is not possible for HD, as HD is a picture format and not a signal type.