Last-Gen Console Discussions (PS3, Xbox 360, Wii)

Originally posted by jaden101
You're missing the point...It's still a better game now than twilight princess is. It doesn't matter if it was graphically great compared with other games then because i'm not comparing it to those games...I'm comparing it with games from now and it's still better hence the reason graphics don't matter.

Graphics are just a piece of the puzzle, that's all I'm saying. OoT is a better game then TP because the game works really well, the graphics work with the gameplay but if it had TP graphics, and they didn't alter the way the game played it would be even better.

Originally posted by jaden101
I thought TP was a great game but not as good as OoT...Hence I think the graphical element is a bit irrelevant. Ocarina just is a better game but it's obviously far inferiour graphically.

It wasn't about comparing them or saying which is one best, or did it say that graphics mean it makes the better than previous games.

All I said was that graphics could make a already great game better. I think Half Life is a better game than Half Life 2. The reason is that I liked it better when I played it. No graphics will change that, but if you created Half Life 2 without its graphics it would of been a lesser game because of it.

Graphics are extremely important when it comes down to games. This could be from art design to resolution but it doesn't mean that graphics are sole factor on why the game is better than another.

Originally posted by §P0oONY
If graphics/visuals mean nothing to you then I don't understand it. If they're not important at all to you, then that means stuff like the soundtrack isn't either. As the soundtrack effects the game just as much as the visuals... If not less, as it doesn't change gameplay. If you think that the soundtrack is important then your reasoning makes no sense.

Graphics are just a piece of the puzzle, that's all I'm saying. OoT is a better game then TP because the game works really well, the graphics work with the gameplay but if it had TP graphics, and they didn't alter the way the game played it would be even better.

Not true. Some games require a soundtrack to work. Resident Evil, for example. It intensified the experience more than a graphical improvement would.

A perfect example is Metal Gear Solid on the Playstation and Twin Snakes on the Gamecube. It's the same game but it's still considered better on the Playstation (although this is probably down to the fact that most of the extra cut scenes added were totally pointless). The game just flowed better and worked better on the PS.

Obviously trying to execute some modern game mechanics with lessened graphics wouldn't work though. Many games require a higher level of graphics for other aspects of the games to work too as they both emphasise each other. Does that mean these games are better? No.

Originally posted by jaden101
Not true. Some games require a soundtrack to work. Resident Evil, for example. It intensified the experience more than a graphical improvement would.

A perfect example is Metal Gear Solid on the Playstation and Twin Snakes on the Gamecube. It's the same game but it's still considered better on the Playstation (although this is probably down to the fact that most of the extra cut scenes added were totally pointless). The game just flowed better and worked better on the PS.

Obviously trying to execute some modern game mechanics with lessened graphics wouldn't work though. Many games require a higher level of graphics for other aspects of the games to work too as they both emphasise each other. Does that mean these games are better? No.

Graphics are all about game immersion, if you don't think they effect the game then you're wrong.

Graphics (and I don't just mean a game looking pretty) are as important as the soundtrack, and both are as important as anything else in the game. A game is what it is because of everything that goes in to it. If you don't want to accept that, what do I care?

Originally posted by §P0oONY
You're missing the point, and I give up.

Graphics are all about game immersion, if you don't think they effect the game then you're wrong.

Graphics (and I don't just mean a game looking pretty) are as important as the soundtrack, and both are as important as anything else in the game. A game is what it is because of everything that goes in to it. If you don't want to accept that, what do I care?

Didn't "immerse" me as much in Twin Snakes they did in the original though.

I agree that the graphics need to fit the game to make the game immersive though. I just disagree that they have to be "better" from a technical standpoint.

For example, Resident Evil wouldn't work in 2D snes graphics regardless of how good the rest of the game mechanics were.

Originally posted by jaden101
Didn't "immerse" me as much in Twin Snakes they did in the original though.

Originally posted by §P0oONY
Graphics (and I don't just mean a game looking pretty)

To some gamers like spoony, and myself, graphics are just as important as a games' sound, it's story, and gameplay. A great game has a combination of all these four elements equally balanced and meshed together into one grand experience. These are the games that get 9's and 10's across the boards on video game magazines. If games currently lack one of these elements the the game becomes subpar, imo. And these are the sentiment of most gamers, i'm assuming.

But then you have those that would sacrifice some of those elements to better suit them. And that could be for many differnt reasons like for example, some could do without too much of a certain element, without caring about the cost of leveling it down so that another element increases in value.

Originally posted by §P0oONY
.

Well the graphical improvement should theoretically fit a game like Metal Gear better because it relies on realism. This wasn't the problem with the game though. It's the fact that the graphical changes and additions made the game's flow and timing and "feel" wrong and so the game's quality was diminished. (The best example I can remember, because it's been a while since I played it, is when Snake fights the helicopter and there is a pointless cut scene where Snake backflips and pushes a missle that was just fired at him out of the way...It was just pointless and utterly unneccesary and ridiculous)

A great game has a combination of all these four elements equally balanced and meshed together into one grand experience.

And my point is that it doesn't have to be better graphics...It just has to be the right graphics for the game.

Which brings us back to full circle as to why his argument that the Wii have poorer stats doesn't mean it's games are automatically poorer.

For me "Braid" is a case in point. It's graphics were poor relative to other games for obvious reasons but the rest of the game was spot-on (including the soundtrack)

Originally posted by jaden101

For me "Braid" is a case in point. It's graphics were poor relative to other games for obvious reasons but the rest of the game was spot-on (including the soundtrack)

Graphics does not have to be about polygons and 3D modeling. Graphics can be other things. Braid`s graphics fit with what it was trying to do. They were good.

It's like talking to a brick wall, I swear.

Originally posted by §P0oONY
It's like talking to a brick wall, I swear.

No need to get ratty because I disagree with you. I understand your point. I just think it's wrong (among other things).

Graphics can be other things. Braid`s graphics fit with what it was trying to do.

They were good.

They were only "good" in so far as they fit the game. They weren't "good" in relation to other games.

Who is relating to other games?

Originally posted by §P0oONY
Who is relating to other games?

In my gaming opinion to sit back and say that Wii Sports is better than Mass Effect because it's more fun is stupid... And I'm not even a Mass Effect fan.

You...Apparently.

Surely the whole point of a game is the level of enjoyment (fun) you get out of it. Simply to say that Mass Effect is better because it's graphically better is rubbish (which is what you were insinuating with the rest of that post when you referred to criteria of how games should be judged)

If I get more fun out of Wii sports than I do out of Mass Effect (which I actually do) then Wii sports is the better game.

This isn't even a matter of personal taste in genres because I like both those types of games. I've just had more fun playing Wii sports with my friends than I've had playing Mass Effect.

What makes your argument even more ridiculous is that you admit you don't even like Mass Effect.

Originally posted by jaden101
You...Apparently.

Surely the whole point of a game is the level of enjoyment (fun) you get out of it. Simply to say that Mass Effect is better because it's graphically better is rubbish (which is what you were insinuating with the rest of that post when you referred to criteria of how games should be judged)

If I get more fun out of Wii sports than I do out of Mass Effect (which I actually do) then Wii sports is the better game.

This isn't even a matter of personal taste in genres because I like both those types of games. I've just had more fun playing Wii sports with my friends than I've had playing Mass Effect.

What makes your argument even more ridiculous is that you admit you don't even like Mass Effect.

I never said that Mass Effect was better because it had better graphics... Stop putting shit in my mouth that I didn't say. I mentioned storyline in my criteria rundown for ****sake, stop being a little douche and read my posts instead of assuming I'm obsessed with graphics.

And I'm not a Mass Effect fan, but I still had more fun playing it through then I did with Wii Sports Resort. Which is beside the point as it has nothing to do with this current conversation which is about the value of visuals within games.

Originally posted by §P0oONY
That had nothing to do with this conversation.... Or graphics.... 😐

I never said that Mass Effect was better because it had better graphics... Stop putting shit in my mouth that I didn't say. I mentioned storyline in my criteria rundown for ****sake, stop being a little douche and read my posts instead of assuming I'm obsessed with graphics.

And I'm not a Mass Effect fan, but I still had more fun playing it through then I did with Wii Sports Resort.

You're Scottish. Why are you even using the word "douche"?

Clearly it did have something to do with graphics given that you acutally mentioned them, albeit by another name (visuals) in that post.

So you played through Wii sports resort did you?

Originally posted by jaden101
You're Scottish. Why are you even using the word "douche"?

Clearly it did have something to do with graphics given that you acutally mentioned them, albeit by another name (visuals) in that post.

So you played through Wii sports resort did you?

I mentioned visuals with "Playability", "storyline" and "soundtrack"... I also admitted later that comparing the 2 games was stupid.

Yes, I have... As you;ll see in another post in this thread. I played it with friends and I had a lot of fun.

If I cared that much about graphics why would I even own a Wii or the handhelds? You jumped to a conclusion about me early in this conversation and you were wrong.

Originally posted by §P0oONY
I will use any words I please, and I'm not Scottish, I just live in Scotland.

I mentioned them with "Playability", "storyline" and "soundtrack"... I also admitted later that comparing the 2 games was stupid.

Yes, I have... As you;ll see in another post in this thread. I played it with friends and I had a lot of fun.

If I cared that much about graphics why would I even own a Wii or the handhelds? You jumped to a conclusion about me early in this conversation and you were wrong.

I'm not the one making judgments here...You are...I'm also not the one throwing out insults either. (until now)

I just figured you hadn't played it given your previous statement.

All I can say is that mine has developed quite a layer of dust as I'm not prepered to go out and buy shit like Wii Fit and Wii Sports Resort.

Kind of makes it seem like you didn't and wouldn't play it doesn't it?

Either that or you're just blatently lying one way or the other.

Oddly enough I actually defended you previously. Now I just think I think you're an obnoxious fvcking cvnt.

Originally posted by jaden101
I'm not the one making judgments here...You are...I'm also not the one throwing out insults either. (until now)

I just figured you hadn't played it given your previous statement.

Kind of makes it seem like you didn't and wouldn't play it doesn't it?

Either that or you're just blatently lying one way or the other.

Oddly enough I actually defended you previously. Now I just think I think you're an obnoxious fvcking cvnt.

If this conversation isn't going to get back to the games instead of us having this little *****-fest, I'm out.

I'll end on this point: Graphics mean something to me, they're an important part of the game, if they weren't then the programmers just wasted years of their lives. The graphics with the soundtrack and voice casting is what brings protagonists in story based games to life... They matter.

I just mock them while playing that they spent money on it.

Mocking your friends who have spent their money for your enjoyment. You really are an arsehole aren't you?

Whatever, think what you will, at least I'm willing to read and reply without resorting to things that happened in a different conversation; things which aren't even relevant.

So your opinion about the quality of games based on graphics and other criteria from one discussion isn't valid in another discussion on the quality of games based on graphics and other criteria?

Very strange.

The graphics with the soundtrack and voice casting is what brings protagonists in story based games to life.

I certainly agree with good voice casting being good for games. (Dennis Hopper's small part as the porn director in Vice City was a touch of genius.
And ok...I get it...You prefer story based games...Some people don't.

Originally posted by jaden101
Mocking your friends who have spent their money for your enjoyment. You really are an arsehole aren't you?

So your opinion about the quality of games based on graphics and other criteria from one discussion isn't valid in another discussion on the quality of games based on graphics and other criteria?

I certainly agree with good voice casting being good for games. (Dennis Hopper's small part as the porn director in Vice City was a touch of genius.
And ok...I get it...You prefer story based games...Some people don't.