Tourney: Scoobless Vs. Jinzin

Adamantium claws can't get in range of me without losing half the flesh + symbiote from the arms, chest, head, neck, body and legs, the symbiote can't extend to me without being sliced apart, his guns are useless against my armour, his photonic shield emitter can't be used as a weapon as my armour will absorb the energy from it, his sword will be destroyed by my sabres, to get within arms length he has to bring his full body well within my sabre's reach, my spider sense gives me a large advantage in combat, my impact webbing can momentarily entangle/incapacitate him and my plasma cannons are deadly at range or up close

i have a variety of advantages in this match and Jinzin's only hope is to get within range of all my weapons without getting the flesh and symbiote seared from his bones... this will be virtually impossible due to Grievous's skill with lightsabres and Scarlet's spider sense working in tandem

i had forgotten about this, but Grievous also regularly carries a blaster... which further increases my long range firepower

You've both done a great job of articulating your general advantages. I'd say it's close enough to come down to specific tactics and circumstances.
Since we've got a few more days, how about some play by play?

Originally posted by Laminator_X
how about some play by play?

starting off at distance i fire a continual barrage of plasma and laser blasts... both of which will be severely damaging to the symbiote and will cauterise, thus inhibiting any healing factor

if Jin chooses to remain at distance i can keep this up indefinitely... and he will eventually die

if he tries to close the distance i can keep moving away from him while continuing these ranged attacks

eventually i will allow him to come closer (after he's sustained significant damage)... i again have the advantage of reach (apart from symbiote tendrils.... which are easily cut ... further reducing the symbiote's mass and strength) and i can continue firing while drawing my lightsabers

lightsabers will cut through symbiote and flesh like air... they will slice chunks of flesh from TBK's bones, reducing his strength, speed and mobility, causing great pain and trauma

this will have a serious detrimental effect on TBK's health... and as he weakens i continue my assault, which will eventually result in his death

long range i can't be harmed, up close my spider sense and super speed combined will allow me to avoid any potentially damaging blows... and i can easily stay outside the reach of his claws while assaulting him with my sabres and blasters

with all these lightsabers, plasma cannons and laser blasters.... it's a bad day to be a heat sensitive symbiote

also, as soon as we enter the amusement park i start setting everything on fire using my plasma and lasers.... this will also help to weaken the symbiote.

I Vote for 😱

okay.. I have a lot of catching up to do... so let me start out with this first...

I apologize to scoobless for his assessment on scarlet's spider sense... He was correct....(to some extent).

in spiderman 52 and 53.. his spider sense worked against venom... however.. along the way (sometime during the whole planet of the symbiotes crossover sagas) venom somehow adapted to that spider sense as well, and this was later evident during their next battle...

in either case.. scoobs here is making a huge thing out of his spider sense and it's value in this fight... even when scarlet spider WAS able to use his spider sense against venom it didn't stop venom from completely owning him during both of their initial fights, Scoobs countered this fact with the reasoning that it was okay for scarlet to get hit because he had never fought venom before, but by that same logic TBK will be getting an abundance of hits in due to the fact that Scarlet's "never fought him before"... not really a great argument if you ask me... 🙄... bleh, in any case, spider only won the confrontation through a tricky... and admittedly..a lucky move.

The thing is... while scarlet spider couldn't avoid venom and his assault WITH his agility and speed, scoobless' amalgam fairs even worse...

I would once again like to address the fact that scarlet cyborg is using grevious' body.... grevious lacked both the speed and the agility to dodge gunfire... instead he opted to run away... scoobs tried to point out that doing so would be suicide without a force or spider sense... however this simply isn't the case with street level heroes, such as the one's we are using for this tournament.

for example: batman has dodged automatic gunfire from an entire swat team at close range, robin has dodged automatic gunfire from 20 assailants in an attempt to reach two face, storm shadow dodged gunfire from several platoons while carrying a man in an open field, snake eyes has dodged gunfire from an entire front line of cobra soldiers, firefly has dodged automatic gunfire from a firing line at close range, the ninja turtles dodged gunfire from 100 different swat members WHILE simultaniously fighting foot soldiers.

The list truly does go on and on and on... yet none of these characters have any force sense or spider sense to speak of... infact.. just from my short list of examples off the top of my head every character listed, with the exception of the turtles, are human in every aspect. Yet they were able to dodge gunfire, without subjecting themselves to a suicide mission... They did so using a few important factors.. experience, skill, agility, and reflexive speed. This only leads me to believe that grevious was lacking in something important here.. either agility, skill, reflexive speed, or all of the above. (btw scoobs, how you came to the conclusion that such reasoning only proves grevious is smarter than tbk is quite well beyond me... pointing out a flaw in your character is in no way a logical connection to my character's intelligence... 🤨..)

Now back to the agility debate... we see grevious jump high.. yet jumping high is not a logical reason to believe that someone has agility. The Leaper jumps high, but he does not outclass a man like daredevil in terms of agility because he is not nimble... By that same notion, while grevious had a great running speed, running fast is also not an aspect of agility.. otherwise one could claim that quicksilver has the agility of spiderman.. Grevious was also able to climb, run up and down walls, because his claws could graple into the surface of what he was walking/running on much the same way wolverine has used his claws to pierce into a wall and climb up along it's side.. is wolverine then as agile as spiderman? I should think not... I've already disputed the switch from hands to feet, brazillian martial artists use the same type of tactic.. that however, does not make them agile like spiderman. The other example of his agility was the fact that he (grevious) took on multiple opponents and won, yet we see people taking on multiple oponents all the damned time in comic books. again lets look at some examples..

Batman beats his entire rogues gallery in 3 pages, sabretooth destroys an entire bar full of intergalactic mutant warriors in battle tide II, wolverine creams sabretooth, ogan, shingen, and deathstrike in 4 seconds... Are we to assume all these characters to be as agile as spiderman based on the fact that they've fought and beaten multiple opponents at once?
The simple fact of the matter is that grevious is super human in many aspects, he is fully capible of doing things that humans simple can not, but his abilities are not so outwordly when compared to other characters of the marvel/dc/etc universes.. Don't get me wrong, he certainly is an agile character, but his agility, has in no way given even the slightest amount of evidence as to being comparible with spiderman's. He has yet to prove himself in that regard and because this tournement is not conginent on the benefit of the doubt we must then come to the conclusion that due to his robotic body as a selection of mobility, scoobless' character suffers in terms of agility as there are no other feats to prove the opposite to be true...

This is bad for scoobless for a number of reasons, first off, the spider sense, though being a fasion of early warning system, needs an agile body comparible to spidrmans to be completely effective. Though the sense can warn the user of danger, it only does so most of the time fractions of a second (if that) before something happens.. this is why spiderman is barely able to contort out of the way of some things that are thrown at him. Contortion.... Contortion is a MAJOR part of spiderman's ability to dodge incoming dangers, it's literally how he's able to put the spider sense into action (At this point I'd like to point out the tangent that Venom has thrown wooden planks and steel girders at spiderman fast enough to make contact dispite spiderman's spider sense going off to the incoming danger). Grevious' body does not have the same ability of contortion that spiderman's does and he is a much bigger target to hit than spiderman is putting him at a comparible disadvantage. Thus, even though Scarlet Cyborg has a spider sense, he can not use it quite as well as spiderman or even scarlet spider himself would be able to. Scoobless argument for his spider sense allowing him to avoid all sorts of danger, is reliant on the fact that you the spectators overlook this particular flaw.

Scoobs is also trying to argue for his impact webbing when in truth.. Scarlet spider had to hit venom with multiple impact pallets, unloading "a whole bunch" of them on venom at once to even make an effect.. Hitting venom with just one or two had previously resulted in venom tearing right through the webbing as if it wasn't even there... So scarlet had to pour his impact webbing on venom.... Even so venom broke free completely...

Against TBK scarlet fever won't only have to secure multiple hits to make use of the impact webbing....(which due to heightened AND amalgamted speed, reflexes, senses, skill, and agility, will be near impossible to accomplish less TBK simply stands there and LETS the webbing hit him) ... but the webbing will have to have a MUCH stronger consistency to hold TBK for ANY amount of time... this is due to sabretooth's contribution of super strength and ferocity to the venom symbiote... First there is the fact that venom can break out of it (being completely cacooned by multiple pallets) alone, then add in the 10 ton strength factor and augment that by an adrenaline rush and the webbing is all but completely useless. In terms of cacooning TBK, virtually impossible...

Scoobless has "stingers", which are supposed to cause paralysis in their victims, and he is trying to argue that his stingers will do harm to TBK... but this as well, is yet another false hope... first off.. the stingers don't work on venom because they can not penetrate the symbiote. It was only AFTER scarlet has seperated brock from the symbiote, that he was able to use the stingers to any decent effect, even then brock continued to struggle due to the symbiote's healing factor... TBK not only has that same healing factor but another in sabretooth that put venom's to shame BEFORE it got augmented to the level it is now. Thus, even if scoobless got direct hits with the stingers on TBK in an instance where the symbiote was not covering the host, it wouldn't do any good. The stingers would have to be stronger than strong enough to down a T-Rex as was explained by deadpool when he attempted to capture wolverine. With the venom symbiote covering the host however, the stingers wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING whatsoever, not even cause the healing factors to stress.. If there is any doubt as to whether or not the stingers can effect a symbiote, I will say this... the symbiote has proven it's ability to simply discard lathal doses of poison by literally puking it out without missing a beat. Venom's symbiote has also fought off an accelerated (we're talking generation's worth of) cancer and discarded the disease. Pitiful little stingers are not about to do a damned thing.

FInally, Scoobless has been laying down some serious arguments for the durability of his armor... But scoobless, do you seriously expect me to believe that my katana can't cut right through your armor when it's been compared to kevlar? I mean the armor (while durable enough) is susptible to the piercing effeciency of friggin darts yet my katana can't cut through it even though TM put it halfway through a marble pillar WITHOUT super strength? puh-lease! I am not convinced in the slightest... As for your argument that my claws can't cut through it, or will be slowed down in the least. Once again, you are severly mistaken if you truly believe that. Wolverine uses his admantium claws to puncture and slash away at the friggin Hulk... Sabretooth is TIMES stronger than wolverine. Current Sabretooth even more so, as is Venom... TBK has enough physical strength to put those admantium claws through hulk like a hot knife through butter, yet you assume that your armor is going to save you whatsoever? HA.... No my friend... It most definitely will not...

As far as my amalgams abilites are concerned...

Venom has been said to have his own variation of the spider sense.. he proved it by using it to scope out drake around the time of the arachnis project, and again during his second confrontation with the jury, and again during the rumble that went down with the avengers in the vault... However due to the fact that spiderman has claimed that he doesn't have a spider sense (I'm not sure how spiderman would know... especially since he already made the claim several times previous to that, that venom had all of his powers), I will leave it up to the spectators to decide.

For taskmaster's x 2 speed.. It really doesn't matter one way or the other scoobless... If I want, I can argue that (since it's more likey that he's seen this rather than not) TBK can move in fast forward speed... how would you like that? I mean, there's simply no reason to assume that he's never seen a projection move in fastforward, it would be wishful thinking or ignorant to assume such to be true... in any case, the point remains, while my amalgam has "STACKED" speed making him far superior in reflexive and combative speeds than he was previously (and keep in mind, both characters were too fast for a spider sense as it was), your amalgam is reliant on one body to get the job done.. unfortunately, this is the same body that couldn't keep up with the speed of a single jedi knight (obi won) who was moving slow enough to register every movement.. While grevious may be super human in his speed nonetheless... he is however, suffering from the lack of power stacking in that regard and because of that, Scarlet Cyborg will find himself at a serious disadvantage... This holds especially true for an up-close confrontation.

Photographic Reflexes. Yes you are correct, I can not copy your movements using the reflexes, however, that was never my intention. I CAN however, pick up on the patterns of your movement's, timing, and reflexes of them, to work around them. The ironic thing is: That pic you posted... It's of the only person who's been able to flat out "outsmart" TM's reflexes in such a way. For everyone reading at home, that's agent-x... or....... deadpool, who (through his completely random nature, and illogical thought process) can completely bypass any resembalence of patterns. This is why Taskmaster (who trashed deadpool so badly the first time they met, not only didn't have one hit land on him but had deadpool convinced he wasn't even human) was later beaten by deadpool, who figured out Taskmaster's abilities due to the fact that TM was "teaching class" and blurting his powers blatently out. In the fight posted, agent-x (who didn't know he was deadpool...long story) subconciously remembered how to fight TM. Before that fight TM trashed X every time... During that fight however, not only did X have the whole no-pattern thing going for him, but TM was in an unstable emotional state because his girlfriend was bonin with our lil merc with a mouth over there... Scarlet Cyborg IS NOT aware of TBK's abilities (like deadpool was), Scarlet DOES NOT know he needs to fight illogically to beat the photographic reflexes, and Scarlet IS NOT bonin TBK's woman so he doesn't have any of the advantages over TBK that X had over TM... that pic is both null and void in relation to this fight.

Heightened senses. It is under your own assumption that the heightened senses that sabretooth has are of little use for the purposes of this fight... However, if you are to stick to your assumption you will find yourself simply and utterly wrong. For one thing, I've already displayed how my senses are of great use for this particular fight being as it's night time, I can use my senses of night vision, hearing, and smell, to pinpoint your location without have to get near you. This basically equates to you having absolutely no chance at doing anything of relative "stealth" without me being fully aware of it. Also, while you have to rely on your spider sense for the dark, I can simply see you, with and without the symbiote in pitch black, it puts me at a serious advantage (not to mention the lightsabers are a dead give-away 😛..). For instance, even though spiderman can use his spider sense to funtion fairly well in darkness for a fight, he was admittedly head and head with iron fist in a pitch black room in spite of his spider sense, and in spite of Iron Fist being "only human". TBK on the other hand has so many more physical advantages in terms of speed and strength etc, etc, it's not even funny, while Scarlet Cyborg still suffers from the lack of comparitive Spiderman agility resulting in a less effective spider sense, and can't make use of his spider sense against Venom anyways putting him a even greater risk.
TBK's heightened senses also allow for various advantages during general combat scenarios... In the recent weapon x novel, it was revealed that when Wolverine begins relying on his basic instincts and heightened senses even bullets appear to him as if they are in slow motion (which was shown to some degree in nex x-men when logan went to fight a bunch of terrorists). Sabretooth uses said natural gifts to a higher degree than wolverine, thus Scarlet's use of plasma blasts are going to have a relatively limited chance of making contact with their target. I as a viewer can register the laser blasts, but I can't register bullets... so if bullets appear as if in slow motion, imagine what these blasts would look like to a guy like The Big Kahuna.

My shields. You keep arguing that I only have one, and that it's too small to really be useful. Wrong. As I said before.. Taskmaster has displayed the ability to catch bullets... he can catch things that are faster than the human eye can register... he has used his gifted abilities to augment his speed to such great extents that spiderman couldn't "smash" him despite trying. Now taskmasters abilities are working in "tandem" with Sabretooth's physical mutations (bullet in slow-mo), using a sheild as protection you won't be hitting anything with plasma blasts or lasers of the sort. Not only this, but I can generate as many damned shields as I please using the symbiote to attach itself to the shields and forcing you into having to work around the multiple protective shields. I would only have one shield if I only generated one shield... seeing as you have four arms and several blasts coming at me I think myself to be smart enough to compensate. The revelation that I CAN use such tactics with my shields also, negates a good portion of your h2h arguments.. For instance, you can't sever flesh from my arms or harm my symbiote if I have shields covering them like a mech suit. And as previously mentioned, if you attempt to toss impact webbing my way I'll either right out dodge it, or I'll simply unleash the shield in your direction forcing you into fighting with your own impact webbing. My shields are completely useful for the purposes of this fight, and the more innovative and obscure my techniques, the more challenging it is for you to overcome them.
As for my symbiote shields.. they don't "burn easily" if that was the case venom would have got downed by the first five mace warriors he defended against. Using his will power he was able to provide safety for himself and another person at the same time, while taking oncoming laser fire from an entire military unit AFTER fending off most of their regiment. This however was a concious effort to keep a KOed woman safe, you don't have that kind of advantage here to weigh me down, and I can dodge the blasts rather than voluntarily take them as he did then. But due to the technique mentioned above I only have to resort to the symbiote sheilds if it's necessary... it won't be however.

Healing factors. You seem to think you can dictate how my healing factor will work... Sorry, I not only have an enhanced version of sabretooth's own healing factor, but I have the symbiotic healing factor working simultaniously with it. Venom's healing factor has allowed him to take laser blasts and assaults that go right through him and heal them without him needing to even slow down while fighting. Although lasers/plasma blasts going through human flesh do exactly what you said they do, they however, don't do that to the v-man. Venom's been shown to take multiple lazers and simply grimace at them, the symbiote healing factor heals penetrating and caurterizing wounds without any hinderance to the human form... with an accelerated healing factor working alongside it, TBK can take those blasts just fine... If TBK wasn't amalgamated with Venom your theories on how the sabres and plasma blasts etc would hold true to some extent... But even then, wolverine's entire skin/hide was eradicated from his muscles by a plasma explosion, his healing factor was not halted nor slowed down in the least, he's also had a plasma grenade implanted in his chest that also healed just fine after it exploded... Considering that sabretooth had a superior healing factor before the government augmented it, and that it's now in conjunction with the venom symbiotic healing properties, your expectations for how much damage you can actually cause me and the effects of that damage are nothing more than an false assessment, coupled with an overglorification of your own destructive capabilities.

Webbing. Yes you are correct, the webbing does run out... After using literally gallons and gallons and gallons of the stuff, my gallons of symbiotic webbing compared to a few cartradges of your amalgam is a slight bit overwhelming when comparing the two. My webbing however, is obviously more abundant, stronger than yours, and doesn't have to be replaced manually. These aspects give me several advantages in regards to the webbing itself...

Tendrils. You seem to be under the impression that you're in a fight with Venom from the late 80's or something... Venom has shown his ability to use TONS of symbiotic reconstruction without leaving his host body open to attack... the earliest examples occure after venom the madness. It was hinted that he retained some of his symbiotic altering powers as well as strength. Again, while fighting the mace warriors he was using vast amounts of extra symbiotic tendriling and shields without it leaving him (brock) open to attack. Currently, it's been proven even more so. Venom displayed the ability to do such during his battle with wolverine and again with "the twins" in venom: run. And in response to the technique which I mentioned before (sending 100 different tendrils out to latch onto various things and fling them at you), displayed in MK spidey 11, the symbiote did not leave it's host open for alternate attacks... Thus when I use this technique I will not be left open to attack. Furthermore, I WILL be protected by shields. And beyond that, I will be dodging or blocking basically anything you shoot my way.

In essense your argument is already under the suspicion of reaching to beat my character, as you are attacking the mind/character of my choices rather than acceptig the fact that I'm basically the mind you're up against... If we are to argue by limitations of character than I would like to address, one of your characters is an automaton, one's not a killer, and the other is considered to be a coward... Although I'm sure that in light of these points attacking my amalgams character doesn't quite sound like a great way to go... You can't even kill me going by character traits... Now you assumed yourself to have a greater tactical mind, but you don't... again, I have one character (venom) who's cunning enough to outsmart, trick, and make spiderman look foolish on a regular basis, another (TM) who has made a living out of being able to infiltrate high security headquarters and deal with seemingly overwhelming oponents using skill alone, (Iron man, captain marvel, avengers, and spidey himself) (every part of what he does implies the use of tactics) and another character that has had over a century of experience, and been trained by multiple national governement and military organizations. Where you think you have a superiority in tactics from ONE general (who by the way never displayed any use of overwhelming tactics, but rather overwhelming numbers..pffft 🙄..) is another logical leap I don't quite follow... The core of your argument relies on you being able to do things that your character's feats can't back up while reducing the feats of my characters into something that's considerably less than what they've proven to do or take...

In terms of strategy.... first of I release a strand of symbiote into the main power supply of the park shutting off all the lights. While Scarlet has a spider sense, the ongoing sounds of the amusement park rides are going to be pretty damned distracting and disorienting... second, I branch off several different strands of symbiote under the ground and all around Scarlet to off-set his spider sense (this is giving him the benefit of the doubt that he actually had one of use here... cause I still fail to see how he does) finally I begin the "stick and yank approach" sending out 100 different tendrils, latching onto various objects and begins sailing them off into his direction... (Scoobless seems to think that despite my powers, augmentations, and abilities that due to his mulitple arms he's nearly guaranteed a hit with one of any of his 3 blasting weapons.. I wonder how Scarlet will fair attempting to dodge 100 things coming at him from 100 different directions..) Suffice it to say, I'm going to land this shit on it's target, regardless of lightsabers and spider sense. Once again... Venom has nailed parker with wooden planks and steel girders that he's thrown at him in broad day light. Venom has hit his mark on both occasions in spite of petey's spider sense... Sending 100 different projectiles at once is going to utterly destroy scarlet, especially if I keep piling it on, which I no doubt intend to. If he's thinking spider sense this and spider sense that blah blah blah... aside from venom's ability to launch things fast enough to hit spiderman regardless of the spider sense... i'd like to again bring up my argument against Scarlet's agility and simply call it into consideration.

Using this meathod, I don't have to get my hands dirty.. I'll simply bury Scarlet under tons and tons of rubble, amusment park coasters, planks, rides, machinery, etc etc... There's no reason this plan shouldn't work.. it doesn't take a large amount of time, it doesn't leave me open, and it puts Scarlet on the complete defensive with no way to succeed.

Is it a cheap way to win this fight? yes...
Is it something I'm capible of doing? hell yes...
is it still considered a victory? you bet your ass it is! 🙂

If it comes down to an upclose confrontation.. I generate as many shields as i can, while playing the dodging game (again.. it's night time, and by this points any lights in the area will already be down, so I'm not sure how Scarlet plans to locate me if I'm not in a state of threatening him (which again I call into question the use of ben's spider sense)... anywho, after generating the shields I'll secure them to my body like armor via symbiote. Then I'll simply go in for the kill and attack him with superior speed, agility, fighting ability, reflexes, and an overwhelming amount of tendrils... as I said before, he can't keep up with the tendrils and TBK at the same time.. they'll eventually catch up to him, and it will all be over....

as for setting the amusment park aflame... since when do star wars lazers and plasma blasts light things on fire? 🤨

(which I'd also like to call attention to the fact that venom isn't any NEAR as suseptable to flames as he used to be.. as was clearly displayed in the last match I had, when venom got hit with an exploding gas truck and responded by picking up an armored car and throwing it at spiderman while taunting him rather than appearing to be in any amount of danger or harm)....

okay... sorry about that guys (to everyone/anyone willing to read that mammoth amount of text) scoobs gave me a lot og homework to do over the past few days.. 😛

okay...now... let's look at some interesting facts.. such as sabretooth's ability to deal with spiderman and his spider sense.. and punisher...

.

I'd like to remind the people this is BEFORE sabretooth's augmentation in the weapon x series...

well that's how effective an EXPERIENCED spider man's spider sense is against a depowered version of the tooth...

now let's take a gander at how scarlet's spider sense helps him against venom...

well it certainly didn't seem to help him much there...

or there...

grrr... or there......

hmmm.. how about the 3rd time they threw down...?

yes.. scarlet spider's pider sense is doin him wonders against venom alright 🙄 though in his defense by this time it's not really working where venom's conerned...

...speaks for itself...