😆 yes better left unexplored i suppose.
Originally posted by ImmortalOne
Mormon = Christians ?? I dont think soo !!
i just want you to know that i believe in christ as my redeamer with all my heart. i would rather die than reject or even sugest that christ is not my savior or that he never lived. i try to pattern my very life off his teachings (yes that does mean the bible) and i know that he has redemed me from certain doom. I love him and respect him with all of my might, mind, and strenght. I know that he loves each and every one of us, that includes you and me, and still lives today. If that is not christanity i do not know what is.
oh and someone said something about wierd underware, i just want to let you know that that is not quiet right. its more like how jews used to (i don't know if they still do) wear their prayer shawls, it's a reminder of a promise.
😱 *hugs brunett angel* hi!! thanks! are you from utah, or are you out of state? born into, or converted? just if you want to say! 😉 i would like it if you'd pm me. By the way, it' nice to meet you, it's not very often i run into another member on the web. look forward to seeing (in a manner of speaking) you again!
oh and not to be partial, thanks to all whove said hi! it's nice to meet you all! 😄 oh and i'd enjoy a pm from anyone.
Re: Anyone else here LDS(mormon)/ want to talk about this?
Originally posted by ~dorkerina~i just want you to know that i believe in christ as my redeamer with all my heart. i would rather die than reject or even sugest that christ is not my savior or that he never lived. i try to pattern my very life off his teachings (yes that does mean the bible) and i know that he has redemed me from certain doom. I love him and respect him with all of my might, mind, and strenght. I know that he loves each and every one of us, that includes you and me, and still lives today. If that is not christanity i do not know what is.
oh and someone said something about wierd underware, i just want to let you know that that is not quiet right. its more like how jews used to (i don't know if they still do) wear their prayer shawls, it's a reminder of a promise.
Hey dorkerina,
Nice to have you aboard. Although I definately respect your right to follow any religion you want to, I have to clarify with you that Mormonism is not the same as Christianity..for the following reasons.
The misrepresentation of the Trinity. Mormonism doesn't support the belief that Jesus Christ is literally "God incarnate" in the flesh. This means they believe Jesus to be a created being, and not equal/one with God the Father. LDS also believe that Christ was fromed after a sexual relationship between the Virgin Mary and the Heavenly Spiritual Father.The belief that Jesus's death on the cross only partially saves the believer. A direct contradiction to the Bible
*Jesus states many times in the bible that only he is the way/truth/light.
The belief that man will someday become God himself, another direct cotradiction to the Bible..
*God states there will be no other God's before him or after him.
Mormons also believe that man will populate his own planet one day with his progeny..becoming "God the father"
These and many other related facts on stating why Mormonism is not the same as Christianity can be received from clicking on the following link below.
well put brunett angel! i'm gonna add, but your simple answer might be teh best.
Our beliefe in god and christ being separate bings is supported in the bible when christ is baptized, matt 3 16 and 17 it says that as christ was baptized god spoke from heaven calling christ his son. Christ has "all of the power in heaven and on earth" according to our beliefs, you can find that in this adress: http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates$fn=default.htm ,so they are equal in power.
And I would like you to find for me where any mormon leader has said that god had sex with mary(we believe she was a virgin, if we also believed god had sex with her it would be a contradiction), i have never seen or been taught this, i would have to hear something like this directly from an apostle of prophet to believe it, i would not take the word of someone who said they heard it becuase they didn't. We have no beliefs on this that contradict anything the bible says, or realy even expand on what it says.
The belief that Jesus's death on the cross only partially saves the believer. A direct contradiction to the Bible
i'd like you to show me where it says this, and explain to me then why many denominations believe different things about this, and a place where you can not interpret it as that christ means also to follow his doctrine to be saved by his atonement, oh and define "saved" becuase i believe that all men gain imortality. but that is different to the reward of eternal life.
please show me this as well: The belief that man will someday become God himself, another direct cotradiction to the Bible..
*God states there will be no other God's before him or after him.
i take this to mean that i am not to worship any god but him, i.e. not be a pollytheist. so i think before or after him means i should honor no one as my god before or after him. how can i be wrong just becuase i understand the bible differently?
I would just like to say that if you have taken a one sided view of this by only listening to what someone says about us, without any quote to back it up (not just a quote by someone who may be a mislead member) you are ignorant on the subject. I invite you to read about what we really believe on my curches official web site, that way you can know what we really believe not what someone that dislikes us says we believe. here: http://www.lds.org
hope that helps, and i see myself as a christian, religion is all about what you believe to be true, not what others say about it.
😄 it was nice talking to you.
😄
Originally posted by ~dorkerina~
Our beliefe in god and christ being separate bings is supported in the bible when christ is baptized, matt 3 16 and 17 it says that as christ was baptized god spoke from heaven calling christ his son. Christ has "all of the power in heaven and on earth" according to our beliefs, you can find that in this adress: http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates$fn=default.htm ,so they are equal in power.
Proof of Jesus is God incarnate and one with the Father.
Gen 1:26 then God said "Let us make man"John 1:58 "I tell you the Truth" Jesus answered. "before Abraham was born, I am."
John 14:8-9 Philip said. "show us the father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered "Don't you know me Philip, after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.
***"Us" referring to all 3 parts that make up the Godhead. Those 3 parts being the Father, Son(Jesus), and Holy Ghost.
And I would like you to find for me where any mormon leader has said that god had sex with mary(we believe she was a virgin, if we also believed god had sex with her it would be a contradiction),
"When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits." (Brigham Young. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, page 218, 1857.)
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Brigham Youn. Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).
"Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Brigham Young. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 51).
And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events,...Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie. pg 742)
"They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible." (Joseph Fielding Smith. Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 19)
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 547.)
The belief that Jesus's death on the cross only partially saves the believer. A direct contradiction to the Bible
i'd like you to show me where it says this
Taken from the Book of Mormon...
"Come unto Christ, and be perfected in Him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ;....
"And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without a spot" (Moroni 10:32-33; emphasis added).
So basically what has been stated in the above verses is that an individual can not receive God's grace unless they make themselves perfect through their "works" on this earth. This is a direct contradiction to the Bible which states or salvation is based on Christ's sacrafice and God's "grace"..not based on our "works."
please show me this as well: The belief that man will someday become God himself, another direct cotradiction to the Bible..
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible. Say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form, like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man;"(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 345)
The whole design of the gospel is to lead us, onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62) and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (See The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1.)" (Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, page 179)
invite you to read about what we really believe on my curches official web site, that way you can know what we really believe not what someone that dislikes us says we believe. here: http://www.lds.org
Many of the quotes above were taken from the 3 most respected "authorities" of Mormonism...The Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young.
While I respect your right to worship what you believe, I must inform you that it is not Christianity. Hope this helps.
Thanks brunett angel!
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Proof of Jesus is God incarnate and one with the Father."When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits." (Brigham Young. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, page 218, 1857.)
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers." (Brigham Youn. Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).
"Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Brigham Young. Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 51).And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events,...Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie. pg 742)
"They tell us the Book of Mormon states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement. The Book of Mormon teaches no such thing! Neither does the Bible." (Joseph Fielding Smith. Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, page 19)
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 547.)
This is saying that the holy ghost did not create christ in mary, it is saying that christs flesh and blood was created by God, so he is his father, christ is his son, god oversaw his creation not the holy ghost. This does not directly say that God had sex with mary, if he did he would not be telling the truth about christ being born to a virgin and would cese to be god. We do not concive what exactly he did (it is a mystery like many of gods works) I believe it to be this way, and i will not bother to know more becuse that is gods buisness
Taken from the Book of Mormon...
"Come unto Christ, and be perfected in Him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ;...."And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without a spot" (Moroni 10:32-33; emphasis added).
So basically what has been stated in the above verses is that an individual can not receive God's grace unless they make themselves perfect through their "works" on this earth. This is a direct contradiction to the Bible which states or salvation is based on Christ's sacrafice and God's "grace"..not based on our "works."
no he is saying that we can only be saved with the grace of god if we do what he askes "with all your might" so grace is sufficient if we follow the comandments. enforcing (and expanding) that only by gods grace shall we be saved, beccuase our works must be coupled with it to be sufficient.
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible. Say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form, like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man;"(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 345)
The whole design of the gospel is to lead us, onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62) and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (See The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1.)" (Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, page 179)and i did not say we did not believe that the rightious will become gods i asked where it directly contradicts the bible.
Many of the quotes above were taken from the 3 most respected "authorities" of Mormonism...The Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young.
While I respect your right to worship what you believe, I must inform you that it is not Christianity. Hope this helps.
I guess we will have to dissagree with the doctrine of the mormon church, but i know and have felt the truth and peace the gospel brings. I have no doubt in my mind that the things i believe are true, and when followed they can bring anybody peace even in trials (and i don't believe that becuase my life is easy). I love christ and that i feel, makes me a christian, you will not change that with anything you can say. 🙂
Proof of Jesus is God incarnate and one with the Father.
quote:
Gen 1:26 then God said "Let us make man"
John 1:58 "I tell you the Truth" Jesus answered. "before Abraham was born, I am."
John 14:8-9 Philip said. "show us the father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered "Don't you know me Philip, after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.
***"Us" referring to all 3 parts that make up the Godhead. Those 3 parts being the Father, Son(Jesus), and Holy Ghost
The thing that will disprove all of this for me at least is that we believe that Christ created the world under Gods direction (there is nothing to directly contradict that), thus christ was the god of the old testament and the savior of the new. and weather god does it or christ directs it it is the same(because it does get confusing who is being spoken of when teh jews speak), so when judas asked that christ is telling him, have i not taught you about and lived as to show you how and who the father is? (not specifically that but with the same meaning) 🙂
Originally posted by ~dorkerina~
[B]Proof of Jesus is God incarnate and one with the Father.quote:
Gen 1:26 then God said "Let us make man"
John 1:58 "I tell you the Truth" Jesus answered. "before Abraham was born, I am."
John 14:8-9 Philip said. "show us the father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered "Don't you know me Philip, after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.
***"Us" referring to all 3 parts that make up the Godhead. Those 3 parts being the Father, Son(Jesus), and Holy Ghost
The thing that will disprove all of this for me at least is that we believe that Christ created the world under Gods direction (there is nothing to directly contradict that), thus christ was the god of the old testament and the savior of the new. and weather god does it or christ directs it it is the same(because it does get confusing who is being spoken of when teh jews speak), so when judas asked that christ is telling him, have i not taught you about and lived as to show you how and who the father is? (not specifically that but with the same meaning) 🙂 [/B]
Feeling is just one reason to be part of a religion. Don't ever think the feeling you have is unique. I have the same feeling for my Buddhism, the only difference is, my religion is not better than your religion; no religion is better than any other religion. Religions are the manifestation of the truth reflected in the culture of the religion. I do not have to defend Buddhism; when someone puts Buddha down, I just laugh and say "ya, he was a cranky old man". If other people don't want to hear the wisdom of a wise man, then that is fine with me. This gives me freedom that a Christian does not have. I can laugh at the fool, and agree with the wise, regardless of their religion.
good for you, i'm truely glad you have that peace. 🙂
though i don't have to defend mormonism (as i said no one can change how i feel, so i don't need to put too much store in what others think of it). All i'm really trying to do is help people understand what i believe,(like what you where doing in the last post, you know, trying to help me under stand how you feel and why) i don't like it when people try to pin me for something i'm not.
And no ofense but i do think that feeling has everything to do with religion. (the right kind, you know, feeling that it is what is correct (not like mine is the only good and completely correct religion, but what is right and good, the right thing to follow etc.)) I am what i am becuase i feel that it is true, and that it is what i should do. I have faith in it, as you have faith in buddism. But also in a way, i think that my fellings are unique to me, and that for everyone it is different and similar.
just becuase someone is mormon does not mean they are better, or that i can't see them for what they are, i try to be just as kind to them as everyone else, even though sometimes it is nice to have a common ground (thats not found solely because a person is mormon). i also can "laugh at the fool, and agree with the wise, regardless of their religion." I do know what you mean by that though.
🙂
Originally posted by ~dorkerina~
good for you, i'm truely glad you have that peace. 🙂though i don't have to defend mormonism (as i said no one can change how i feel, so i don't need to put too much store in what others think of it). All i'm really trying to do is help people understand what i believe,(like what you where doing in the last post, you know, trying to help me under stand how you feel and why) i don't like it when people try to pin me for something i'm not.
And no ofense but i do think that feeling has everything to do with religion. (the right kind, you know, feeling that it is what is correct (not like mine is the only good and completely correct religion, but what is right and good, the right thing to follow etc.)) I am what i am becuase i feel that it is true, and that it is what i should do. I have faith in it, as you have faith in buddism. But also in a way, i think that my fellings are unique to me, and that for everyone it is different and similar.
just becuase someone is mormon does not mean they are better, or that i can't see them for what they are, i try to be just as kind to them as everyone else, even though sometimes it is nice to have a common ground (thats not found solely because a person is mormon). i also can "laugh at the fool, and agree with the wise, regardless of their religion." I do know what you mean by that though.
🙂
Well, you are part of a small minority, people with an open mind, as far as what I have seen. There is one thing I'd like to make clear, I also believe that feelings are important, I am only saying that it should not stand allow. I do not believe in blind faith, I always check to find proof to back up my faith. I hope you are the same way.
I used to date a mormon. And I can honestly say, that I have never met a person who was more angry with himself, scared of himself, ashamed of himself and self repressed than he was....
check out this site...and see if any of it makes sense to you:
http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm
The "First Vision" story in the form presented to you was unknown until 1838, eighteen years after its alleged occurrence and almost ten years after Smith had begun his missionary efforts. The oldest (but quite different) version of the vision is in Smith's own handwriting, dating from about 1832 (still at least eleven years afterwards), and says that only one personage, Jesus Christ, appeared to him. It also mentions nothing about a revival. It also contradicts the later account as to whether Smith had already decided that no church was true. Still a third version of this event is recorded as a recollection in Smith's diary, fifteen years after the alleged vision, where one unidentified "personage" appeared, then another, with a message implying that neither was the Son. They were accompanied by many "angels," which are not mentioned in the official version you have been told about. Which version is correct, if any? Why was this event, now said by the church to be so important, unknown for so long?
well, i think with the last one you must be talking about the angel that visited him several times, moroni. and i have one question to ask you, do you tell a story exactly the same everytime, or do you emphisise different things to different people. and besides, the vision that talks only about christ might be him testifying about him seeing christ to a person who doubted that. oh and there are not many writings from joseph himself becuase he did not like to write, thats why they where taken down later, becuase most of the time, especially in the early history, it was a personal testimony given, not a written one.
oh and i've met insecure people of other religions, you can't base that on a persons religious beliefs alone, that is ignorant.