Eis, you're not forced to go anywhere... gosh, dont you know even if somebody put a gun to your head you can still say no if they want you to say yes. so in a matter of speaking you choose to go to these things. yeah it'll make things less complicated, and easier going, but in the end you choose to go so there is less complication and people aren't mad at you. HEHE!! no offense or anything, just thought i'd share that. but even though you go to these church mettings, and sometimes church itself, do you pay attention enough to learn? or do you just go stubbornly, and think you're learning the church's teachings? no, we don't go to another planet when we die. there is the spirit world we go to. i dont think members of the church turn their backs on subjects like this because they're affraid what people will think, i think it's because they're smart and know that the people wont accept it. why teach somebody something, when they wont accept it? it's quite pointless, and it's not the basics of the church really. it's not deep doctrine, but it's not basics either. basics is what we teach to investigators, for the simple fact they'll understand and accept those things first, and then find they have a testimony. it's best to not teach stubborn people something that's not basic. too many people out there already think we're wierd, so whats another one? anyways, if you don't accept the church is true, then don't teach our doctrine. that would be a hypocritical thing to do, to teach something, but not practice it. even though you're teachings are confused, mislead, or false most the time, you're not practicing it and have no idea what our beliefs are really. so ask me, that's hypocritical. i do not want to offend anybody, but a friend once told me, these are the days when it will come to offended everybody. so my appologies if i've offended anybody.
Originally posted by Ramses
Eis, you're not forced to go anywhere... gosh, dont you know even if somebody put a gun to your head you can still say no if they want you to say yes. so in a matter of speaking you choose to go to these things. yeah it'll make things less complicated, and easier going, but in the end you choose to go so there is less complication and people aren't mad at you. HEHE!! no offense or anything, just thought i'd share that. but even though you go to these church mettings, and sometimes church itself, do you pay attention enough to learn? or do you just go stubbornly, and think you're learning the church's teachings? no, we don't go to another planet when we die. there is the spirit world we go to. i dont think members of the church turn their backs on subjects like this because they're affraid what people will think, i think it's because they're smart and know that the people wont accept it. why teach somebody something, when they wont accept it? it's quite pointless, and it's not the basics of the church really. it's not deep doctrine, but it's not basics either. basics is what we teach to investigators, for the simple fact they'll understand and accept those things first, and then find they have a testimony. it's best to not teach stubborn people something that's not basic. too many people out there already think we're wierd, so whats another one? anyways, if you don't accept the church is true, then don't teach our doctrine. that would be a hypocritical thing to do, to teach something, but not practice it. even though you're teachings are confused, mislead, or false most the time, you're not practicing it and have no idea what our beliefs are really. so ask me, that's hypocritical. i do not want to offend anybody, but a friend once told me, these are the days when it will come to offended everybody. so my appologies if i've offended anybody.
Although to you I may come off stubborn, I'm not like that, at all. I always try to learn as much as I can in these meetings. If I'm going at least I try to get something out of it...
that would be a hypocritical thing to do, to teach something, but not practice it
Eis, I'm sorry to hear that you feel like you're being forced into going to church. I know that it is never fun feeling like your beliefs arn't being considered by your family, only for me it was that I wanted to go to church.
I think what Ramses was getting to is that taking deeper beliefs and telling them to people without any explanation does lead to misconceptions. Often times those misconceptions lead to predjudices etc. Calling this hypocritical may not have been the correct word to use, but you also have to understand where he is coming from. To actively create misconceptions to get people to form predjuces against the church while all along disliking the predjudices that you face as someone trying to leave can come across as slightly hypocritical. Am I calling you a hypocrite?Not necessarily (although I would contend all of us are hypocritical at different points in our lives).
All in all, it's just best to be able to explain the basics to people before bringing about deeper doctrinal views that could come across poorly without the first required knowledge.
All in all, it's just best to be able to explain the basics to people before bringing about deeper doctrinal views that could come across poorly without the first required knowledge.
But what is the required knowledge?
God loves us all, dont hurt other people, be goood, wait till marriage for sex, if we're good we'll go to heaven when we die, etc. People know Mormons teach this, I can't get passed the whole "Wait till you're ready to study deeper within the doctrines." I'm sorry but at least, I, would like to know exactly what the mormon church believes before involving myself with them.
Learn the basics, and you'll know what we believe. Study the deep doctrine before you're ready to understand it, and you'll become stupid at that knowledge. Which would make it no knowledge to you at all. Read the book of Mormon all the way through, ponder upon and pray about it. Read the Doctrine and Covenants and ponder upon them, and pray. Also the Bible, can't forget that. There, you'll learn all the basics. When you've read, studied and grew spiritually you'll become ready. We cannot take on all the knowledge of the church, for it's endless. There are always new teachings being taught, and so forth. Don't think you can know the entire teachings of the church in this world. We'll forever learn, and never cease to learn. Atleast in this world we will. Tell me, can you through a child into the middle of a river flowing downstream and expect them to swim without them ever being taught the basics of floating? No, they will drowned. Put somebody behind a steering wheel of a car, without teaching them what pedal does what, and so forth... they're wreck, or go off road. It's not safe, sane, nor right to teach deep doctrine to investigators and expect them to join the church. They won't, they'll be set up to fail. Learn the basics, then from the basics expand your knowledge. Don't just jump into deep water without learning to swim.
Eis I wasn't trying to attack you...so i'm sorry if you took it as such. I have a question for you...did you take discussions with the Missionaries to learn about the church before joining?
I took the discussions twice before joining because I wanted to know what I was getting myself into...which is similar to you...so I don't blame you for wanting to "know exactly what the mormon church believes before involving myself with them." That's actually a very smart idea.
I would say some basic information that needs to be fairly well understood is the churches teachings/stances on things like the Atonement, the Restoration (including the First Vision, Restoration of the Priesthood, the Witnesses to the Book of Mormon), the Articles of Faith are some good basic ideas to look at.
You're right, knowing the Word of Wisdom is good too, that tends to be a stance that more people notice because it is more clearly visible to the world today.
For me I personally needed to live the principles and pray a lot to try and figure out if I thought the church was true. And I got my answer.
Originally posted by GodIsAwesome
Eis I wasn't trying to attack you...so i'm sorry if you took it as such. I have a question for you...did you take discussions with the Missionaries to learn about the church before joining?I took the discussions twice before joining because I wanted to know what I was getting myself into...which is similar to you...so I don't blame you for wanting to "know exactly what the mormon church believes before involving myself with them." That's actually a very smart idea.
I would say some basic information that needs to be fairly well understood is the churches teachings/stances on things like the Atonement, the Restoration (including the First Vision, Restoration of the Priesthood, the Witnesses to the Book of Mormon), the Articles of Faith are some good basic ideas to look at.
You're right, knowing the Word of Wisdom is good too, that tends to be a stance that more people notice because it is more clearly visible to the world today.
For me I personally needed to live the principles and pray a lot to try and figure out if I thought the church was true. And I got my answer.
It is a smart idea and I would've liked have given that choice.
As for me, I know enough on mormonism and catholicism to decide that though it may work for some people, I just don't agree with their teachings. Specially the fact that both of these religions believe homosexuality is an abomination.
hah. Don't worry I'm not trying to convert anyone here...I'm simply trying to explain/clear up some things!
I understand that not everyone finds what I find in the church, and I respect that as their decision.
Eis, the homosexuality within religions thing is very hard and controversial...something I don't want to necessarily start on here because I feel like people might start saying things to hurt other people...which shouldnt' happen.
Eis, you're a male right? I know your gender status says so, but I've known a few people to put the wrong gender there. Uhmm, earlier you said you're boyfriend? So, you have a boyfriend? If so, enough said why you hate the church. But in honesty, most religions out there disagree with homosexuallity, it's just that people are making the church out to be more human wants than a Christ like church. I've been to many different churches, and they teach against getting drunk, but the people go home that night and throw a party. To me this church I belong to caught my eyes because the people practice what they teach most the time. I don't want to seem like I'm pushing the church on you, and I'm sorry if that's the way it has seemed like. My greatest appologies on that. I do admit I, myself, am total anti-homo. Not homofobic, just I don't stand up for it like some people do. I don't go out of my way to protest against it either, but when my opinion is asked, I'll be honest. Or when a gay guy hits on me, I'll be honest... unless Cheryl walks up and distracts me again.... anyways I want to appologize for the way I've been towards most of you.
Originally posted by finti
and you feel there is a difference between your explaining and converting?
explaining is answering questions the best we can so you will understand. converting is something nobody does to others. i dont convert anybody, nor do missionaries. your choice to convert to the religion.... right?
if missionaries doesnt convert guess they have no purpose either then...............................and if you believe you dont need to explain, so you flunked out on all the behaves and believes I lurked between your faith or so called faith....................call me Dzwebil Belzebub Ismahel or any ones lords will in the end bow before ME