Originally posted by Nellinator
I have a question for Mormons. Can you sum up for me the Mormon doctrine on the seven layers of heaven?
Afterlife for me.
Upon death the spirit enters either Paradise or Purgatory (a prison of sorts.) I believe that this is the heaven and hell referred to by many religions. Christ broke the bonds of purgatory and made it possible, if those in purgatory would accept him, to leave purgatory. I believe that those in heaven make attempts to convince those in purgatory to accept Christ. Following the coming of Christ at some point in our future paradise and purgatory expel the spirits as a literal resurrection occurs.
During this time a final judgement occurs (At the end of this Millennial period) also Satan and his devils are bound in some way, unable to exert any influence on man for a period of time that may be relative (Bible says one thousand years.) During this time man is able to have his freewill tested without unknown influences interfering. This will allow man to make decisions based on the level of control of his physical form he has and his capabilities for love (charity reference) as well as knowledge and understanding of the Gospel (which may or may not depend on understanding in this life, I don't know.) The results of this "Judgement" will result in the next portion of my beliefs
There are differing degrees of life at this point. We label three, but there is a statement that for every level of law there is an existence to match.
Telestial - A state very similar to life as we know it, only eternal.
Terrestrial - A little more possibility than is available in the Telestial realm.
Celestial - High level of possibility.
Now in these realms there are varying degrees of possibility. We believe that being saved by grace refers to the ability granted to all to enter these realms and not have their spirits just disperse. We also believe in a literal resurrection, which occurs prior to entering these realms.
There is also what is called Outer Darkness, hell for those that use the term. This is reserved for Satan and the aforementioned devils. It is very difficult to achieve this realm. To achieve it a man would have to have absolute knowledge of God and deny him, as such there are a relatively small number of people that go here.
These are my views. I am a Mormon, all the same these are my interpretation of what I believe as a Mormon and not necessarily official doctrine.
to be continued...
... continued
Celestial is where God the Father resides. Maximal Progression is possible.
Telestial - Doctrine and Covenants 76:103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.
Terrestrial - Doctrine and Covenants 76:86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;
Celestial - Couldn't find reference for an description of these. They are the Valiant, those that loved others as they should.
As to seven layers, there are many layers. Distinction is probably due to our understanding.
Doctrine and Covenants 88:34-39
34 And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same.
35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.
36 All kingdoms have a law given;
37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.
38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.
So you will achieve the state corresponds to the Law that you live by. There is a law for everything, dependant upon you and your life you will go where you have chosen to go.
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
regret have u ever gone on a mission
I had planned on a mission my entire life. I reached the age that Mormon men go on a mission and it did not feel like the correct path to me. I did not go on a mission. A month later I began dating my wife, and we were married. She has since joined the Church. I would say that I was probably not supposed to go, but then I also regret having missed out on the opportunity. But then, perhaps I would not be who I am today had I not had the experiences I have had due to my decision.
I already have 2 friends gone on missions and I hate it becuz they feel so compelled to do it, becuase of the church, but a lot of it comes from the parents.
I have to say although I don't know you at all, you seem like more of the ideal mormon type to regular people. This girl I used to date told me that there would never be a chance of us marrying because her dream was to get married in the temple. Theres just such an imbalance in her life with religion that she could not marry someone unless they were mormon despite being in love with them. First of all I'm too young to get married, but it doesn't seem right and I'm not sure if the general lds populus is that way or if its just her, but i hope that the church teaches that its ok or even encourages to marry people outside the church if they loev that person
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
I already have 2 friends gone on missions and I hate it becuz they feel so compelled to do it, becuase of the church, but a lot of it comes from the parents.
I disagree with men going because they feel like they have to. I feel that a person should have a desire to go, they should be doing it because they want other people to be happy. I think that missionaries follow two paths when they go due to a feeling of being compelled. Either they learn what it means to serve others and become a "good" missionary, or they struggle and are unable to continuously present themselves in a manner that a respectful messenger of God should. I think that it is difficult to not "push" what they view as right. Here is the Mormon view on this subject (sorry about the length):
This is in reference to the Priesthood, but it is understood as being related to other concepts as well.
Doctrine and Covenants 121:37-46
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.
39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.
40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.
41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy;
44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.
45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.
46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
I have to say although I don't know you at all, you seem like more of the ideal mormon type to regular people.
Thank you, I attempt to be respectful of those I come into contact with, although at times I fail 😉
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
This girl I used to date told me that there would never be a chance of us marrying because her dream was to get married in the temple. Theres just such an imbalance in her life with religion that she could not marry someone unless they were mormon despite being in love with them. First of all I'm too young to get married, but it doesn't seem right and I'm not sure if the general lds populus is that way or if its just her, but i hope that the church teaches that its ok or even encourages to marry people outside the church if they loev that person
It is not prohibited, but it is counseled against.
Here is my opinion on the subject. If you marry someone who does not believe as you do, especially if they have strict requirements based on religion, there is a high probability of conflict due to the differing views. Even if one of you changed religion to the other's, often you will find that you have differing views on what requirements are important and to what degree. It is a difficult path to follow.
Also, the LDS religion believes in the possibility of marriage lasting for eternity. Given this, we are unsure of what occurs following death as far as marrying. The Bible states that the dead are neither married or given in marriage. Does this mean there is no more opportunity upon death? Or does it mean no marriage until the resurrection? Or does it mean no marriage if you are spiritually dead will be recognized? We don't have anything explaining this to my knowledge. A Mormon is risking a lot by marrying outside the Temple, as this is where a marriage can be given the possibility of being eternal. So it is a rather difficult thing for the individual and those that care for him/her not marry in the Temple. I myself married in the Temple following the year wait after my wife joined the Church.
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
I like the fact that you could marry outside the church and not say that the mormon church is true, but rather say that you believe its true. It bothers me when they say it is or they know it is true
I could say I "know" it is true, but then I would be asked how do I "know"? It is also disrespectful when discussing the subject with others, much the same as stating that it is the only true church. I believe this to be so, but those I am addressing would be offended by this, as well as disagree, so I do not make statements like this unless I am asked directly.
Besides, we are supposed to be humble. Stating "I know" seems a bit too proud my comfort.
Originally posted by docb77
I disagree that it sounds proud to say "I know", but I totally agree that after saying it, it becomes difficult to explain how one knows. Saying it's a feeling doesn't quite cover it. It's at once more concrete and more sublime. For me at least that's how it is.
American Heritage Dictionary
BelieveVERB:
1 To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2 To credit with veracity: I believe you.
3 To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.
I would say that the term "believe" is an adequate statement, particularly the first definition. I have faith, which is not knowledge. The testimony I share as to my views concerning the Church and my relationship with God the Father and Jesus Christ, and its high statement of items based on faith, I feel the term believe is more appropriate for me.
Another issue with the term "know" is that the majority of people do not seem to understand the definition. It is given more meaning than is actually found in the definition. I believe that "know" is acceptable, but most take the term as stronger than it really is.
But then, this is merely my opinion.
It just seems like the whole marriage thing, from a non-religous perspective just really isolates the mormons from every1 else. I mean I understand your belief in eternal marriage can onyl occur through the temple, but its hard for me to accept soemthign like that, it just feels like the leaders want to isolate and protect its members maybe from other philosophies or soemthing that woudl likely occur in a relationship as such.
Originally posted by gordomuchacho
It just seems like the whole marriage thing, from a non-religous perspective just really isolates the mormons from every1 else. I mean I understand your belief in eternal marriage can onyl occur through the temple, but its hard for me to accept soemthign like that, it just feels like the leaders want to isolate and protect its members maybe from other philosophies or soemthing that woudl likely occur in a relationship as such.
It could seem like that. But in my experience, married for over ten years and my wife having been Catholic when we were married, the cultural/religious differences are an issue that should be considered. It may not seem like a big deal when you are single and "in love", but it can cause undue stress in a marriage. This is not only a LDS view as far as this type of advice, you can find similar advice among many secular marriage and family counselors. Religious differences, I would bet (as I don't have my marriage texts with me at the moment), are a contributing factor in cases of divorce.
Also, later when considering children it can become an issue as well.
Originally posted by Regret
It could seem like that. But in my experience, married for over ten years and my wife having been Catholic when we were married, the cultural/religious differences are an issue that should be considered. It may not seem like a big deal when you are single and "in love", but it can cause undue stress in a marriage. This is not only a LDS view as far as this type of advice, you can find similar advice among many secular marriage and family counselors. Religious differences, I would bet (as I don't have my marriage texts with me at the moment), are a contributing factor in cases of divorce.Also, later when considering children it can become an issue as well.
Originally posted by Regret
It could seem like that. But in my experience, married for over ten years and my wife having been Catholic when we were married, the cultural/religious differences are an issue that should be considered. It may not seem like a big deal when you are single and "in love", but it can cause undue stress in a marriage. This is not only a LDS view as far as this type of advice, you can find similar advice among many secular marriage and family counselors. Religious differences, I would bet (as I don't have my marriage texts with me at the moment), are a contributing factor in cases of divorce.Also, later when considering children it can become an issue as well.
I guess I can appreciate the thought behind it when its there not to create conflict, I never had this problem with my parents, my mom is catholic and my dad episcapalien ( i dont no how to spell that) and I was raised catholic with my dad never goign to the episcopal church, but rather attendign catholc masses. He never converted to catholicism, but it worked out with my parents, so its hard i guess for me to picture something like that being a hard issue.