Originally posted by Marchello
***You have EYES but you do NOT SEE...and EARS but you do NOT Hear.Tis true...I have told you the SAME thing a number of times before and you still make light of what I say...so that I only can conclude that the Gospel of Christ is "hid" from you: "But if our Gospel be HID, it IS HID to THEM that are LOST: In whom the god of this world hath BLINDED the MINDS of THEM which BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS Gospel of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God, should shine unto them" [2 Corinthians 4:3-4].
Marchello
You know how Jesus flipped his wig in the temple because all those jews werer't keeping it holy?
Yeah, they weren't impressed either, were they?
Don't get so caught up in the myth that you feel the need to become your own dillusional version of Jesus to lend credence to your own religious preferences.
Besides, you aren't converting anybody. Much less saving anyone from the pretend fires of your imaginary hell.
Originally posted by MarchelloAhhh, we have not dealt dishonestly with you. Yet you have dealt dishonestly with us. You, like the devil, can twist scripture in many ways, but honesty is beyond you.
***You have EYES but you do NOT SEE...and EARS but you do NOT Hear.Tis true...I have told you the SAME thing a number of times before and you still make light of what I say...so that I only can conclude that the Gospel of Christ is "hid" from you: "But if our Gospel be HID, it IS HID to THEM that are LOST: In whom the god of this world hath BLINDED the MINDS of THEM which BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS Gospel of Christ, who is the IMAGE of God, should shine unto them" [2 Corinthians 4:3-4].
Marchello
2 Corinthians 4:1-2
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
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*["Persistent, aren't you?"]
***Lady:
I don't mean to be that way...it is just that I like answers to the questions that I ask. That is called "dialogue."
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*["I did not "become" a Christian, I know what you mean by that. You mean "accepting Jesus into my heart," which is a phrase that I don't connect with."]
***I am sorry but you do not know what I mean. The use of phrases does not mean a person is a Christian. Too, I can understand how one can be "turned off" by the use of such phrases...especially when the person using them does not understand the meaning of the words that he is speaking.
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*["I am a Christian because I believe that Jesus died for everyone, not just for those few people that happen to jump through a few specific hoops."
***Yes, indeed, Jesus did die for everyone [Romans 3:25,26;1 John 2;2]. However, believing that Jesus died for everyone does NOT make you a Christian. For instance, if you should happen to come down with an illness [God forbid]...and you know that Dr. Jones can cure the illness...it will NOT do you any good to just "know" that...you must "go to" [i.e., submit yourself to the treatment] Dr. Jones for the cure to your illness.
The Bible tells us that we are ALL sinners. Now, of course, no one likes to be told that he/she is a sinner...but that does not alter the fact that we are. The Bible tells us that "...ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" [Romans 3:23]...and... "For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL life through Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23]. So then, Siriuswriter, we have a condition that condemns us to eternal punishment...but we are also told that the "cure" for this condition is available through Jesus Christ [the Great Physician]. To get this "cure" we must ACCEPT the treatment that the GREAT PHYSICIAN offers...and it is FREE...it is a GIFT: For the WAGES of SIN is DEATH, but the GIFT og God is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ our Lord" [Romans 6:23]. Jesus Christ is the GIVER of LIFE ETERNAL.
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*["I am a Christian because I don't believe in judging people, because I believe in helping and loving my fellow man."]
***No, my dear, that is not the reason why you would be a Christian. The only way that a person becomes a Christian is to ACCEPT the GIFT of God [Jesus Christ] as your SAVIOUR and LORD: "He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not. He came unto His own [people], and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, TO THEM gave He power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on His name. Which were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" [John 1:10-13]. Nothing you can do will gain you eternal life...only the GRACE of God through Christ Jesus can do that.
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*["I am a Christian because I continue to ask questions about my faith and study religious works and keep my mind and heart open."]
***Again...the only way to God is through Jesus Christ...to wit: "Jesus said to him, 'I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE: NO man cometh unto the Father, but BY ME'" [John 14:6]. Too, the Scriptures are the ONLY reliable source of knowledge of the things of God: "All Scripture is given by INSPIRATION of God, and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION in RIGHTEOUSNESS: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" [2 Timothy 3:16-17].
(Continued)
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*[...I don't feel the need to preach to others about how they will be going to hell if they don't believe exactly the same things I do. Let people believe what they believe. I'm pretty sure that other poeple have thought about what they believe, and so we don't need to be constantly haranguing them."]
***Lady:
It is not my wish to offend you...but I must tell the truth as I see it. From what you have communicated to me in this post it is clear that you do not know what it means to be a Christian. Of course, I do not know your heart...so I can't judge you on that.
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*["Have I answered your question?"]
***No.
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
***Yes, indeed, Jesus did die for everyone [Romans 3:25,26;1 John 2;2]. However, believing that Jesus died for everyone does NOT make you a Christian.
Technically it does, at least by definition - a Christian is a person who believes Christ is the Messiah. That simple. Christian is an umbrella terms, one that came around some time after Jesus, that defines what a follower of that religion is. You believe Jesus died for all people, then you likely believe he is the Christ and ergo you are Christian.
Of course it is really only other Christians who despite who is Christian and who isn't. For a group that claims they would love to see everyone "accept Gawd and be sahved!" so many of you are awfully quick to come up with reasons why plenty of other Christan's wont in fact be saved, how they are going about the salvation business wrong - because they aren't dancing the way your group wants, and arent' donating to the coffers of "True Christians."
***Lady:It is not my wish to offend you...but I must tell the truth as I see it. From what you have communicated to me in this post it is clear that you do not know what it means to be a Christian. Of course, I do not know your heart...so I can't judge you on that.
So much pride. And not the outright, plain sort, the kind the dresses itself up with "oh, I don't want to offend but I just haaaave to tell the truth, which thankfully I am privy to, as I see it anyway. And of course I know I am right. To admit anything less would be unacceptable."
I see that we have differing viewpoints on what being a Christian means, Marchello. Using scripture to illustrate your points is equivalent to preaching to the choir, I know the bible as well as you do. I do not appreciate the continual CAPSLOCK, I am not unintelligent and I do not need points emphasized to me, the simple passage is enough. Those words are not CAPSLOCK in the bible, as far as I can recall.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinions. As am I. I happen to have the opinion that God is a benevolent, loving divinity that would not send one of his children to hell. I don't belive that this unconditional love that we've been told about will suddenly vanish on judgement day.
I might suggest that you cease your preaching. No one here appreciates it, no one here is taking you seriously. I, certainly, do not appreciate that I am *CAPSLOCK* WRONG. Your interpretation of the bible may not be the right one, Marchello. I, certainly, do not take you seriously if all you can do is shout and judge. I prefer people who are open minded.
Now, this thread is about Mormons. You came in here, your blazing sword of righteousness wielded, and promptly began to tell everyone how and why Mormons are wrong. Strike one.
When people begin to defend themselves or talk back to you, you thump the bible at them. Strike two.
You won't accept different viewpoints, not only from people who are vastly different than you, but from people who have relatively similar views as you, but the man whom you love to quote, Jesus, did. Strike three, Marchello. You're out.
I believe Christians follow the commandments that Jesus said were the most important, "To love God above all things," and "To love your neighbor as yourself." I can't say about the first, but it sure as hell doesn't seem like you're doing the second.
Originally posted by siriuswriter
I believe Christians follow the commandments that Jesus said were the most important, "To love God above all things," and "To love your neighbor as yourself." I can't say about the first, but it sure as hell doesn't seem like you're doing the second.
Well I think you have it half right. Let's look at some verses.
Matthew 5:43:46
You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you
that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same?
James 4:4
You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God
So it is also important to love your enemy, as in showing mercy and kindness and compassion to him(or "her" in our case). One should never be glad at the misfortune of others. But that still doesn't mean one should be stupid, and consider someone who is obviously an enemy against God their friend.
Or to simplify..we're commanded by God to love everybody..but we ain't commanded by God to like everybody. All that being said, remember that I still love ya sweety..😉
EDIT: "y"
Originally posted by Thundar
Well I think you have it half right. Let's look at some verses.So it is also important to love your enemy, as in showing mercy and kindness and compassion to him(or "her" in our case). One should never be glad at the misfortune of others. But that still doesn't mean one should be stupid, and consider someone who is obviously an enemy against God their friend.
Or to simplify..we're commanded by God to love everybody..but we ain't commanded by God to like everybody. All that being said, remember that I still love ya sweety..😉
EDIT: "y"
Her post can be applied to smug bastards like you as well. And the very response you gave merely proves the point she was making to m*******o.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Religious people often think they have all the answers, oh and want to just share it for our own benefit.
Depends on how you define "religious" and "benefit."
I think everyone can get caught up in their own opinion from time to time and lose sight of the overall message they're trying to convey. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're doing it for their own benefit though. It just makes them human.
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*["It seems that we have differing viewpoints on what being a Christian means..."]
***Absolutely.
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*["Marchello. Using scripture to illustrate your points is equivalent to preaching to the choir..."]
***Your "cliche" is INCORRECT. The RESULTS of preaching the Word of God...no matter to whom it is preached...will NOT return to God VOID of the INTENT for which it was put forth...to wit: "For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth
the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the
sower, and bread to the eater: So shall MY WORD be that goeth forth
OUT OF MY MOUTH: it shall NOT return unto me VOID, but it shall ACCOMPLISH that which I PLEASE, and it shall PROSPER in the thing whereto I sent it" [Isaiah 55:10-11].
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*["I know the bible as well as you do...."]
***Obviously not.
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*["I do not appreciate the continual CAPSLOCK, I am not unintelligent and I do not need points emphasized to me, the simple passage is enough. Those words are not CAPSLOCK in the bible, as far as I can recall."]
***I use the CAPLOCK because YOU ARE HARD OF HEARING!
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*["You are, of course, entitled to your opinions. As am I. I happen to have the opinion that God is a benevolent, loving divinity that would not send one of his children to hell. I don't belive that this unconditional love that we've been told about will suddenly vanish on judgement day."]
***I see that the idea of God sending unsaved people [i.e., unrepentant sinners] to Hell is NOT easy for you to accept. The reason that you do not accept this is because you are looking at the issue from a HUMAN perspective. But this perspective is not necessarily the RIGHT one. If God exists, and He does, then it is He who is the ONE who determines what is RIGHT and FAIR...NOT US. So, we need to see what the Bible says about what is right regarding SIN and SALVATION and make a decision afterwards.
The Bible tells us that God is holy [1 Peter 1:16]. Holiness is incorruptibility, perfection, purity, and the inability to sin...all of which are possessed by God ALONE...and He is the STANDARD of all that is RIGHT and GOOD.
The Bible also says that God is INFINITE [Psalm 147:5]. If God's understanding is infinite, then God is infinite in NATURE.
The Bible tells us that God is LOVE [1 John 4:16]. God cares about us and seeks our well being and security. His thoughts about us are infinite and His love too. This is WHY God does NOT desire that anyone go to HELL...but that ALL come to REPENTANCE [2 Peter 3:9].
The Bible tells us that God is RIGHTEOUS [Psalm 7:9]. His RIGHTEOUSNESS is part of His CHARACTER just as mercy and love. Righteousness deals with JUSTICE...and JUSTICE deals with the LAW. This means that God will ALWAYS do that which is RIGHT and He does so according to the RIGHTEOUS LAW that He has set forth. God CANNOT do anything WRONG. God MUST do that which is RIGHT...otherwise He would NOT be RIGHTEOUS.
Jesus said that "out of the ABUNDANCE of the HEART, the MOUTH speaketh" [Matthew 12:34]...so too God. God spoke the world into existence [Genesis 1:3]...and He also spoke forth the LAW [Exodus 20...the Ten Commandments, etc.]. Therefore, the LAW is a reflection of God's character...because it comes out of what He IS...holy, perfect, righteous, and good. Therefore the LAW is the STANDARD of PERFECTION. It is PERFECT and if we do NOT keep it PERFECTLY...then we have OFFENDED the God who gave it...after all it is a reflection of His character. To break God's Law is to OFFEND [sin against] God. Since it is Law, there is PUNISHMENT because there is NO Law that is a Law WITHOUT PUNISHMENT. This means that when we break the Law of God, we fall under JUDGMENT of the LAW of God. Since He is INFINITE, our OFFENSE against Him takes on an INFINITE QUALITY because we have OFFENDED an INFINITELY holy and righteous God.
(Continued)
I might suggest that you cease your preaching. No one here appreciates it, no one here is taking you seriously. I, certainly, do not appreciate that I am *CAPSLOCK* WRONG. Your interpretation of the bible may not be the right one, Marchello. I, certainly, do not take you seriously if all you can do is shout and judge. I prefer people who are open minded.
Now, this thread is about Mormons. You came in here, your blazing sword of righteousness wielded, and promptly began to tell everyone how and why Mormons are wrong. Strike one.
When people begin to defend themselves or talk back to you, you thump the bible at them. Strike two.
You won't accept different viewpoints, not only from people who are vastly different than you, but from people who have relatively similar views as you, but the man whom you love to quote, Jesus, did. Strike three, Marchello. You're out.
I believe Christians follow the commandments that Jesus said were the most important, "To love God above all things," and "To love your neighbor as yourself." I can't say about the first, but it sure as hell doesn't seem like you're doing the second. [/B][/QUOTE]
That wasn't the point of her comment at all.
Taking "religious" and "benefit" out of context is not "defining" them, its bastardizing an argument in an attempt to make yourself look intelligent and provide a "deep" response, when really the matter that was initially proposed has been completely negated.
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*["I might suggest that you cease your preaching. No one here appreciates it, no one here is taking you seriously."]
***You do not speak for everyone on this board...not even my most strident detractors...some of whom have even said, in the past, that I have the right to vent my opinion as well as they. Too, you have no way of knowing that they don't take my preaching seriously...for I have gotten private messages from people who do not post on this board but have emailed me seeking information on my comments. The people on this board are NOT the only ones who read our posts...HUNDREDS of others do as well...think about it! This is a wonderful forum to reach other people for the Lord Jesus Christ.
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*["I, certainly, do not appreciate that I am *CAPSLOCK* WRONG."]
***Repeat: YOU ARE HARD OF HEARING!
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*["Your interpretation of the bible may not be the right one, Marchello"]
***All true "born again" believers in the Lord Jesus Christ have the RIGHT interpretation of the Scriptures...because when we ACCEPTED Him by FAITH as our SAVIOUR and GOD, He CREATED us "anew":..."But as many as RECEIVED Him, to THEM gave He power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were BORN, not of blood, nor of the WILL of the flesh, nor of the WILL of man, BUT OF GOD" [John 1:12, 13]. Too...because we are REDEEMED by FAITH in His BLOOD...the Holy Spirit RESIDES IN us...and He [i.e., the Holy Spirit] TEACHES us ALL things pertaining to God and brings to our REMEMBRANCE whatsoever Christ has said to us [John 14:26].
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*["I, certainly, do not take you seriously if all you can do is shout and judge. I prefer people who are open minded."]
***No, that is not why you don't take me seriously...you don't take me seriously because you do NOT believe the Word of God...it is too "narrow" for you. You prefer a "broader" way of interpreting scripture...which is the WRONG WAY...for it is written: "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for WIDE is the gate, and BROAD is the way, that leadeth to DESTRUCTION, and MANY there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and NARROW is the way which leadeth unto LIFE, and FEW there are that find it" [Matthew 7:13,14]. Sad, indeed.
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*["Now, this thread is about Mormons. You came in here, your blazing sword of righteousness wielded, and promptly began to tell everyone how and why Mormons are wrong. Strike one.
When people begin to defend themselves or talk back to you, you thump the bible at them. Strike two.
You won't accept different viewpoints, not only from people who are vastly different than you, but from people who have relatively similar views as you, but the man whom you love to quote, Jesus, did. Strike three, Marchello. You're out."]
***I'm not into baseball.
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*["I believe Christians follow the commandments that Jesus said were the most important, 'To love God above all things,' and 'To love your neighbor as yourself'..."]
***Yes, indeed...TRUE Christians DO.
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*["I can't say about the first, but it sure as hell doesn't seem like you're doing the second."]
***In your "broad" SUBJECTIVE opinion.
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
***You do not speak for everyone on this board...not even my most strident detractors...
She speaks for most if it.
Originally posted by Marchello
some of whom have even said, in the past, that I have the right to vent my opinion as well as they.
Who has EVER said you have a right to voice your opinions?
Originally posted by Thundar
But that still doesn't mean one should be stupid, and consider someone who is obviously an enemy against God their friend.
What is "an enemy against God" - really?
I mean, I imagine it as someone who goes around burning churches and shooting priests with cannons. But lets be honest - they are very rare. I mean it is very hard to get a working cannon, and who wants to be friends with people who want to murder Christians to get at their God anyway?
What there are a lot of are a. Atheists, who aren't enemies, they simply don't believe. b. Members of other faiths, who aren't enemies, but just believe something else. c. Christians who other Christians think aren't proper Christians and who themselves are not accepted by yet other Christians, and aren't enemies, they have just got a system that is different based upon the interpretation of a vague old book.
Do any of them actually qualify as enemies? Is God really one of these "if you're not with me YOU'RE MY ENEMY" kind of guys, even if by definition the people not with him are not acting as enemies nor desire to be enemies of his faith?
I believe Christians follow the commandments that Jesus said were the most important,Christians should follow all the commandments just as Jesus did, not just the ones they feel are important. Otherwise they're not quite Christ like now are they..The 10 commandments can be summed up in the two Jesus quoted.
The first 4 are how to prove that you love god.
The last 6 are how you prove that you love people.
***No, my dear, that is not the reason why you would be a Christian. The only way that a person becomes a Christian is to ACCEPT the GIFT of GodHow can one religion say what gods gifts are..
Originally posted by ThundarI do understand that there is a lot of conditioning in the churches, and people really aren't aware of it like most religions one is submerged in. But it seems that many want to preach to others so that one day god will say "Good and faithful servant." Would god still accept you if you never told a soul about him?
Depends on how you define "religious" and "benefit."I think everyone can get caught up in their own opinion from time to time and lose sight of the overall message they're trying to convey. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're doing it for their own benefit though. It just makes them human.