*["If you will read the Book of Mormon and then pray and ask God whether or not it is true, you will receive a testimony from the Holy Spirit verifying it is truth."]
***FIRST of all, God NEVER says to pray about truth. He says to SEARCH the SCRIPTURES to find TRUTH [Acts 17:11;2 Timothy 3:16]. SECOND, it DOESN'T matter what you FEEL...it what you FEEL contradicts the Bible, then what you FEEL is WRONG.
Have you EVER had to pray about the Bible to see if it is true? So why are you supposed to pray about the Book of Mormon to see if it is true? The Bible says to STUDY God's Word for TRUTH...Not pray about it.
Marchello
*["We are to pray about the Book of Mormon because the Bible tells us to in James 1:5. God will answer us because we are SINCERE."]
***First of all, the problem with SINCERITY is that it becomes WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS because you are saying "Because of my SINCERITY, God WILL listen to me." In other words, because of what's in the person...God will look FAVORABLY upon him. God does NOT look INTO a person and FIND anything GOOD because there is NO "good" in ANYONE [Romans 3:10-12;Ephesians 2:3]. Second, this verse is about WISDOM...NOT about PRAYING to see if the Book of Mormon is true...to wit: In [James 1:1] it says "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations: Greetings" So the Book of James was written to those who were BELIEVERS and ALREADY HAD the TRUTH. That is WHY James calls them BROTHERS in verse 2. Third, WISDOM is the proper use of KNOWLEDGE...NOT the ACQUISITION of KNOWLEDGE. You acquire TRUE SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE from the Bible...NOT your HEART. You DON'T pray about the B.O.M., you pray about the TRUTH you've learned from the BIBLE and ask God to TEACH you MORE...and HOW to APPLY
properly what He's ALREADY shown you.
Marchello
Originally posted by Marchello
***TRANSLATION: I am IGNORANT and this stuff is way over my head.Marchello
Owwww.
I think the part of my brain that handles irony, sarcasm and cynicism overloaded when I saw that.
***FIRST of all, God NEVER says to pray about truth. He says to SEARCH the SCRIPTURES to find TRUTH [Acts 17:11;2 Timothy 3:16]. SECOND, it DOESN'T matter what you FEEL...it what you FEEL contradicts the Bible, then what you FEEL is WRONG.
So... if I pray about truth will God hit me? Because I should be looking for it in the Bible (essentially the truth a men 2000 years ago?)
I suspect you would be one of the Christians that Regret was asking about who would have crucified Christ. Bugger putting any trust in your own senses or that God might try to interact - only trust ones own narrow interpretation of a book that is metaphorical to the extreme.
Have you EVER had to pray about the Bible to see if it is true? So why are you supposed to pray about the Book of Mormon to see if it is true? The Bible says to STUDY God's Word for TRUTH...Not pray about it.Marchello
From the Mormons I have met - the whole "pray and see if it is true" comes in mainly for nonbelievers. I being essentially a non-believer, was told that if I asked God if the Bible was true then he would answer me (because I don't think the Bible is true), and if I asked about the book of Mormon he would do the same. Because God apparently wants us to be saved, "and we only have to ask when in doubt" (etc etc etc) - in my mind they are both untrue, but the BoM no more so then the Bible.
***Apparently not.
Ahhh, the limp wit shines through again. Better be careful, you might hurt yourself.
***Why not? Worse guys than you have become preachers...like Paul who had Stephen stoned to death and held his robe while it was being done.
Hmmm "worse guys then me" - well that is saying something, since I never really done anything at all to put me into the "bad" category. But oops, I forgot, my Atheism makes me comparable to Satan I guess, at least in the eyes of small minded theists.
***People who have very "small minds" with "absolutist" settings know, of a CERTAINTY, that there are NOT "two" versions of the truth...for there is only ONE truth. What you and the others on this board object to is my SOLE SOURCE [i.e., the Scriptures] of that TRUTH.
Shame your truth has pretty much been pulled out of your... hat. That's the thing about truths derived from highly subjective sources and personal interpretations. They're not that much better then the truths of others that have been created differently from that source.
In place of certainty I think it would be better to have an open mind - to say "I am confident what I am following is the truth, but if I am wrong I will be willing to learn" - after all, you expect the people of the world to see your view is the truth and convert, then they to must have open minds, and would probably be more worthy then you, because they at least have the courage to admit they might be wrong, and aren't so prideful as to declere themselves compleltly correct.
My SOURCE tells me in no uncertain terms that:...
Make it sound like some secret informant. I wonder if you could argue that source in court... no you couldn't.
***No...I am able to speak.
Regretfully. Perhaps I could have been a bit harsher - your (interpreted) God likes 'em painfully stupid. There, how is that?
***True. I don't have the wisdom nor the ability to question God because to do so would imply that, perhaps, God is wrong and would bring His judgments and/or pronouncements into question.
God would probably have been better then to not give mankind a mind... after all, to be a proper follower like you involves not using your head.
Me, I wouldn't have guessed God was such a big sook as to get all uppity if his "much loved children" asked questions, even of him. A sooky tyrant, who gets mad if he gets questioned, so that his followers have to encourage ignorance so as not to anger their tyrant lord. (Oh, this is the God of your own little world I am talking about.)
Here is what He thinks of the "wisdom" of men:
zzzzzzzzzzz... What? Oh yes: "Bwoooorh! God laugh at puny humans and their puny wisdom! God greater then Puny humans! God smash puny wisdom because God don't like people thinking they have a right to be wise! God wonder why he gave them it in first place.... Bwooooorh!!!"
***EVERY True Christian has a "narrow" view about the person of Jesus Christ...(1)Who He was, (2)Why He came, (3)What He accomplished for us on the cross, and (4)What we must believe to be saved. ALL True Christians agree on the saving doctrines of the Faith and may have disagreements on minor issues that do not infringe on these saving doctrines.
Ah, we now peddle out the "true Christians" - and why if my eyes and ears don't deceive me most Christians, from across the spectrum, believe they are the true Christians. And often they believe the Christians who aren't like them aren't quite as true. Shame that judgement is... subjective. And based on their own opinions of what is right. Yes, it is easy to be right when you declare everybody else wrong. But sadly from an objective point of view that doesn't actually make it so.
James 1:5Men should pray when they are lacking.
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Col. 1: 9An example of a prayer for spiritual knowledge in the Bible.
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
One should pray over all things.
***EVERY True Christian has a "narrow" view about the person of Jesus Christ...(1)Who He was, (2)Why He came, (3)What He accomplished for us on the cross, and (4)What we must believe to be saved. ALL True Christians agree on the saving doctrines of the Faith and may have disagreements on minor issues that do not infringe on these saving doctrines.
Wow. I came in here thinking I was a Christian. Guess I'm not, not really a True Christian, with a capital T. Huh.
So I'll bring the paper products to hell then?
*["...You are mistaken. We believe in the Trinity."]
***Not so. Mormons do NOT believe in the historical orthodox Trinity of ONE God who exists in THREE PERSONS. What you call the "trinity" is an OFFICE held by THREE SEPARATE "gods": the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
(1)The CORRECT doctrine of the TRINITY is that there is ONE God who existed for ETERNITY. This ONE God exists in THREE PERSONS [the GODHEAD]: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. They are NOT THREE SEPARATE "gods"...but ONLY ONE GOD.
Marchello
*["We believe in the true Father God."]
***You do NOT believe in the ONE TRUE God, the CREATOR of all things, the ONE who has ALWAYS existed for ALL time. The "god" you believe in is a "god" who used to be a MAN on another PLANET...who followed the LAWS and ORDINANCES of that "god" on that PLANET and became "exalted" to "godhood." And, to top it all off...he [i.e., that "god"] has a WIFE who is a "goddess."
So NO...a thousand times NO...you do NOT believe in the ONE TRUE God.
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*["I was born a Mormon and know, in my heart, that our church is the true church and Joseph Smith was the true prophet sent by God. Also, the Holy Spirit bears witness to my testimony."]
***Did you know that the Bible says NOT to TRUST your HEART...because IT is DECEITFUL?...it is written: "The HEART is DECEITFUL above ALL things, and desperately WICKED: who can know it?" [Jeremiah 17:9].
Too...did you know that the Holy Spirit bears WITNESS of Jesus Christ...and that Jesus SENDS the Holy Spirit?...to wit: "But when the COMFORTER is come, WHOM I will send unto you FROM the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, HE shall TESTIFY of ME" [John 15:26].
Would a FALSE Jesus send the TRUE Spirit of God?...of course not.
BOTTOM-LINE: ONLY the Jesus of the Bible will SEND the Holy Spirit. Since you DON'T have the RIGHT Jesus you CAN'T have the TRUE Holy Spirit...and your "testimony" is INVALID.
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*["Our faith is the restoration of the true gospel and we have the authority to perform priestly duties and, therefore, properly represent God here on earth."]
***The Bible CONTRADICTS what you allege concerning the priesthood...to wit:
(1)Jesus is the ONLY high priest after the order of Melchizedek [Hebrews 3:1;5:6,10;6:20;7:11,15,17,21,24,26,;8:1;9:11]!!
(a)"Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest FOREVER after the order of Melchizedek" [Hebrews 6:20].
(b)The Melchizedek priesthood is UNCHANGEABLE and NON-TRANSFERABLE: "But this man, because He CONTINUETH EVER, hath an UNCHANGEABLE priesthood" [Hebrews 7:24].
BOTTOM-LINE: Jesus Christ's Melchizedek priesthood is ETERNAL and AUTHORATATIVE. Why?...because: "...He is ABLE also to SAVE them to the UTTERMOST that come to God BY HIM, seeing He EVER LIVETH to make INTERCESSION FOR THEM" [Hebrews 7:25].
Marchello