Mormons

Started by Capt_Fantastic119 pages

In olden times when wishing still helped one, there lived a king
whose daughters were all beautiful, but the youngest was so beautiful
that the sun itself, which has seen so much, was astonished whenever
it shone in her face. Close by the king's castle lay a great dark
forest, and under an old lime-tree in the forest was a well, and when
the day was very warm, the king's child went out into the forest and
sat down by the side of the cool fountain, and when she was bored she
took a golden ball, and threw it up on high and caught it, and this
ball was her favorite plaything.

Now it so happened that on one occasion the princess's golden ball
did not fall into the little hand which she was holding up for it,
but on to the ground beyond, and rolled straight into the water. The
king's daughter followed it with her eyes, but it vanished, and the
well was deep, so deep that the bottom could not be seen. At this
she began to cry, and cried louder and louder, and could not be
comforted. And as she thus lamented someone said to her, "What ails
you, king's daughter? You weep so that even a stone would show pity."

She looked round to the side from whence the voice came, and saw a
frog stretching forth its big, ugly head from the water. "Ah, old
water-splasher, is it you," she said, "I am weeping for my golden ball,
which has fallen into the well." "Be quiet, and do not weep," answered
the frog, "I can help you, but what will you give me if I bring your
plaything up again?" "Whatever you will have, dear frog," said she, "My
clothes, my pearls and jewels, and even the golden crown which I am
wearing." The frog answered, "I do not care for your clothes, your
pearls and jewels, nor for your golden crown, but if you will love me
and let me be your companion and play-fellow, and sit by you at your
little table, and eat off your little golden plate, and drink out of
your little cup, and sleep in your little bed - if you will promise
me this I will go down below, and bring you your golden ball up
again."

"Oh yes," said she, "I promise you all you wish, if you will but bring
me my ball back again." But she thought, "How the silly frog does
talk. All he does is to sit in the water with the other frogs, and
croak. He can be no companion to any human being."

But the frog when he had received this promise, put his head into the
water and sank down; and in a short while came swimmming up again
with the ball in his mouth, and threw it on the grass. The king's
daughter was delighted to see her pretty plaything once more, and
picked it up, and ran away with it. "Wait, wait," said the frog. "Take
me with you. I can't run as you can." But what did it avail him to
scream his croak, croak, after her, as loudly as he could. She did
not listen to it, but ran home and soon forgot the poor frog, who was
forced to go back into his well again.

The next day when she had seated herself at table with the king and
all the courtiers, and was eating from her little golden plate,
something came creeping splish splash, splish splash, up the marble
staircase, and when it had got to the top, it knocked at the door and
cried, "Princess, youngest princess, open the door for me." She ran to
see who was outside, but when she opened the door, there sat the frog
in front of it. Then she slammed the door to, in great haste, sat
down to dinner again, and was quite frightened. The king saw plainly
that her heart was beating violently, and said, "My child, what are
you so afraid of? Is there perchance a giant outside who wants to
carry you away?" "Ah, no," replied she. "It is no giant but a disgusting
frog."

"What does a frog want with you?" "Ah, dear father, yesterday as I was
in the forest sitting by the well, playing, my golden ball fell into
the water. And because I cried so, the frog brought it out again for
me, and because he so insisted, I promised him he should be my
companion, but I never thought he would be able to come out of his
water. And now he is outside there, and wants to come in to me."

In the meantime it knocked a second time, and cried, "Princess,
youngest princess, open the door for me, do you not know what you
said to me yesterday by the cool waters of the well. Princess,
youngest princess, open the door for me."

Then said the king, "That which you have promised must you perform.
Go and let him in." She went and opened the door, and the frog hopped
in and followed her, step by step, to her chair. There he sat and
cried, "Lift me up beside you." She delayed, until at last the king
commanded her to do it. Once the frog was on the chair he wanted to
be on the table, and when he was on the table he said, "Now, push your
little golden plate nearer to me that we may eat together." She did
this, but it was easy to see that she did not do it willingly. The
frog enjoyed what he ate, but almost every mouthful she took choked
her. At length he said, "I have eaten and am satisfied, now I am
tired, carry me into your little room and make your little silken bed
ready, and we will both lie down and go to sleep."

The king's daughter began to cry, for she was afraid of the cold frog
which she did not like to touch, and which was now to sleep in her
pretty, clean little bed. But the king grew angry and said, "He who
helped you when you were in trouble ought not afterwards to be
despised by you." So she took hold of the frog with two fingers,
carried him upstairs, and put him in a corner, but when she was in
bed he crept to her and said, "I am tired, I want to sleep as well as
you, lift me up or I will tell your father." At this she was terribly
angry, and took him up and threw him with all her might against the
wall. "Now, will you be quiet, odious frog," said she. But when he
fell down he was no frog but a king's son with kind and beautiful
eyes. He by her father's will was now her dear companion and
husband. Then he told her how he had been bewitched by a wicked
witch, and how no one could have delivered him from the well but
herself, and that to-morrow they would go together into his kingdom.

Then they went to sleep, and next morning when the sun awoke them, a
carriage came driving up with eight white horses, which had white
ostrich feathers on their heads, and were harnessed with golden
chains, and behind stood the young king's servant Faithful Henry.
Faithful Henry had been so unhappy when his master was changed into a
frog, that he had caused three iron bands to be laid round his heart,
lest it should burst with grief and sadness. The carriage was to
conduct the young king into his kingdom. Faithful Henry helped them
both in, and placed himself behind again, and was full of joy because
of this deliverance. And when they had driven a part of the way the
king's son heard a cracking behind him as if something had broken.
So he turned round and cried, "Henry, the carriage is breaking."
"No, master, it is not the carriage. It is a band from my heart,
which was put there in my great pain when you were a frog and
imprisoned in the well." Again and once again while they were on
their way something cracked, and each time the king's son thought the
carriage was breaking, but it was only the bands which were springing
from the heart of Faithful Henry because his master was set free and
was happy.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Oh, Marchello.

True to form, you have ignored most of what I said to put your own points across.

I suppose I never really thought that was possible, for someone to be so narrow-minded. I am proved wrong in you. Congratulations.

To this, you will most likely respond with a lot of scripture, a lot of CAPSLOCK, and "Thank you," to the Congratulations. And throw in a "to wit-" before the scripture.

***I ignored nothing. The reality is that you had nothing of substance to say.

However, you are correct about one thing...I do have a "narrow" view on theological issues...but, then, I am not an entertainer...and I don't aspire to make it big on BROADWAY.

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
***I ignored nothing. The reality is that you had nothing of substance to say.

However, you are correct about one thing...I do have a "narrow" view on theological issues...but, then, I am not an entertainer...and I don't aspire to make it big on BROADWAY.

Marchello

Matt. 7: 14
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It doesn't state that "narrow is the mind", a severely open minded view could also be a "narrow way".

I do not appreciate your posts in general, they are not intended to further discussion or Christian fellowship, as such I had you on ignore for quite a while, but have decided that may be a poor manner of dealing with you as it did not reduce your spouting of useless postings.

Now, you are wrong. That is what the majority of people have stated, although not so bluntly. I think we are done with you, so, I for one invite you to leave this thread. Whether or not you do is up to you, but your presence in this thread is not appreciated.

*["We worship Jesus as Lord and Savior."]

***Not so. The "jesus" that you [i.e., Mormons] WORSHIP is NOT the JESUS that the Bible reveals and whom Christians WORSHIP as Lord and Saviour.

President Hinckley of your LDS Church says that he does NOT believe in the TRADITIONAL Christ...to wit: "No, I DON'T. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is NOT the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with his Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages" [LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p.7].

Christians have long maintained that your faith [Mormonism] is NOT a Christian faith...and teaches a "jesus" that is DIFFERENT from what the Bible reveals. Of course, you will make the claim that you believe in the SAME Jesus that originally walked on the earth and is revealed in the Bible. Though you make this claim, it is up to you to prove it...especially in the light of what your church says about God and Jesus.

In your church, Jesus is a CREATION, the PRODUCT of relations between "god" and his "goddess" wife who used to be PEOPLE from ANOTHER world [Mormon Doctrine by Bruce McConkie, pp. 192,321,516, and 589]. Jesus is the LITERAL spirit brother of the DEVIL and of YOU and I [McConkie, pp. 192,589]. Also, in Mormon theology, God has a body of flesh and bones [Doctrine & Covenants, 130:22.] as does his wife and together they produce spirit offspring in heaven who inhabit HUMAN BODIES on EARTH.

Very few, if any, of the "different" Mormon doctrines are found in their Standard Works: the Bible, The Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Rather, they are taught by Mormons of high standing: prophets, apostles, members of the 70 Quorum. Bruce McConkie, a member of the 70 Quorum, wrote the book, Mormon Doctrine, and is where much of this documentation is derived.

President Hinckley, the prophet and revelator of your church, has publicly DECLARED that the "jesus" of Mormonism and TRADITIONAL Christianity are NOT the SAME.

Now let us take a look at the DIFFERENCE between the Mormon "jesus" and the One who is revealed in the Bible [i.e., the JESUS who is WORSHIPPED as God and Saviour by Christians]:

[A]The MORMON "jesus"
(1)The literal son of "god" and his "goddess" wife begotten in the pre-existence.
(2)The brother of all spirits born in heaven in the premortal existence.
(3)One of 3 "gods" in the godhead.
(4)The trinity is three separate "gods".
(5)First one to receive a spirit body.
(6)Atoned for sin on the cross AND in the garden of Gethsemane.

[B]The CHRISTIAN Jesus
(1)NOT the literal son of "god" and his "goddess" wife.
(2)NOT the brother of all spirits born in heaven in a premortal existence.
(3)NOT one of 3 "gods" in the godhead.
(4)The Trinity is 3 persons in ONE God.
(5)Was ALWAYS spirit from ETERNITY.
(6)Atoned for sin on the cross ALONE.

Mormonism definitely does NOT teach the SAME JESUS as Christianity...and is, therefore, a CULT of Epic proportions.

Marchello

*["Where does it say that God has a wife?"]

***A better question would have been..."Is there a Mrs. God?"

Mormonism states that, "In heaven where our spirits were born, there are MANY GODS, each of whom has a wife or WIVES, which were given to him...while yet in a MORTAL state" [Orson Pratt, (Apostle), The Seer, pg. 37. "The doctrine that there is a MOTHER in Heaven was AFFIRMED in all plainness by the First Presidency of the Church" [Bruce R. McConkie (Apostle), Mormon Doctrine, p. 516]. NOTE:...Are Mormons really "closet Catholics? " Both believe there is a MOTHER or QUEEN MOTHER in heaven.

There is absolutely no mention of any wives of God. "Jesus replied, 'You are in error because you do not know the scriptures or power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven" [Matthew 22:29-30].

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello

Mormonism definitely does NOT teach the SAME JESUS as Christianity...and is, therefore, a CULT of Epic proportions.

Marchello

Technically.... I say that a lot don't I? Well anyway technically to fall under the classification of Christian one simply has to believe Jesus is the Christ.

It really is that simple. There is no rule, however, that states - "You have to believe that Jesus is the Christ in a certain way. It just doesn't work that way. It is those differences that set apart to different Christians groups. The fact they believe differently.

Because you know what? That is the whole point - belief. You really need to stop acting like the Bible is (pardon the pun) Gospel. Because there is no version of faith derived from it that is more evidenced/supported then another part.

s to the book of Mormon - faith. They believe in the Bible, but they believe the Bible to be in complete in a way - the book of Mormon acting as a companion part for the missing parts. And while I don't have faith in that either way, it most certainly is outrageous, nor is it qualification to remove the Christian title from them. Because Jesus, in whatever form, is a vital part of their faith, and the Christ in their eyes.

And plenty of other Christians, in other parts of the faith - well, some of them believe in those gospels that didn't make the cut. What with the final layout of the Bible having been decided by humans.

Originally posted by Marchello
***I ignored nothing. The reality is that you had nothing of substance to say.

However, you are correct about one thing...I do have a "narrow" view on theological issues...but, then, I am not an entertainer...and I don't aspire to make it big on BROADWAY.

Marchello

... and now you've made me angry. 😠

Neither do I aspire to entertain with my posts, I just want to show that there is more than one way to look at God than your narrow-minded view of things. God has a sense of humor. God has a sense of forgiveness. God has a great, neverending sense of Love. I do not see this God that I repsect so much in your posts. Stop telling me what I think. Stop telling me what I say is wrong. Stop telling me that I only wish to entertain. If there were a "slap" button on here, I would push it.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
... and now you've made me angry. 😠

Neither do I aspire to entertain with my posts, I just want to show that there is more than one way to look at God than your narrow-minded view of things. God has a sense of humor. God has a sense of forgiveness. God has a great, neverending sense of Love. I do not see this God that I repsect so much in your posts. Stop telling me what I think. Stop telling me what I say is wrong. Stop telling me that I only wish to entertain. If there were a "slap" button on here, I would push it.

I told you so... 😆

lol1

Welcome to entertainment world......

Originally posted by Marchello

Don't read very carefully do you? "We don't believe in the Jesus of traditional Christianity" and "we don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible" are 2 different statements. Your 3 in 1 version of Jesus is actually quite unfounded biblically. I might say that you don't believe in the Jesus of the bible, but rather in the Jesus of the various creeds.

Try getting rid of the beam in your eye before you try to remove other peoples motes.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
... and now you've made me angry. 😠

I agree. That pun of his was awful.

Marcello is so stupid...why do you guys bother with him ? Are you masochists ?

LOL, I think we try to ignore him, but when we start he comes out and says something even more stupid/ arrogant/ disgustingly ignorant and SILLY us think that we can given him a retort with hope that he listens

LOL

Heck, he might even come up with some damn quote to counter what we say right now........... hmmm i wonder if we could alll put him on ignore.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
...I just want to show that there is more than one way to look at God than your narrow-minded view of things...God has a sense of humor...God has a sense of forgiveness...God has a great, neverending sense of Love. I do not see this God that I repsect so much in your posts. Stop telling me what I think...Stop telling me what I say is wrong...

***Yes, indeed, there are many more ways to look at God...but there is ONLY ONE "right" WAY to look at Him. All the "other" ways CANNOT be the "right way"...for there is only ONE "right" WAY...common sense dictates that.

The Bible tells us that Jesus Christ is the ONLY "mediator" between God and man: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" [1 Timothy 2:5]. Why can't you believe that if you say you are a Christian? Why is it so hard for you to accept that if you say that you believe in Jesus Christ? Do you know of any "other" mediator besides Jesus Christ? I know of no other.

Yes, I am "narrow" minded...narrow minded enough to KNOW, of a CERTAINTY, that He is God's ONLY provision for my salvation. Do you KNOW that? If you do NOT...then you are NOT a Christian and are STILL "lost" in your sins and on your way to perdition. I do NOT judge you when I tell you that...it is the Scriptures that JUDGE you...for it is written: "For God sent not His Son into the world to CONDEMN the world: but that the world through HIM might be SAVED. He that BELIEVETH on Him is NOT condemned; but he that BELIEVETH NOT is condemned ALREADY, because he hath NOT believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the CONDEMNATION, that LIGHT is come into the world, and men loved DARKNESS rather than LIGHT, because their deeds were evil" [John 3:17-19].

You seek to be BROAD-MINDED and find "other" ways to look at God. The Bible teaches that there is NO OTHER WAY to approach God but THROUGH Jesus Christ. Your "broad" approach is the WRONG approach...and I am here to tell you that. Of course, you do NOT want to hear that...but I must tell you that...and I am NOT being unkind when I do so...even if you think otherwise. I do NOT take pleasure in seeing other people run toward their destruction...and I certainly don't take pleasure in seeing you run in that direction...but you most assuredly ARE.

Finally...you do NOT "see" God in my posts because you are BLIND...BLIND to the TRUTH of the Scriptures that you might be saved...and "stumble" at them because you believe them NOT and seek "other" ways to God but will NOT find them.

Marchello

I DO believe that Jesus died on the Cross of all of us, Marchello. But I am a universalist, so I believe that God in his infinite love would not condemn to hell a person who didn't have the mental capabilities to understand this "acceptance," or the condemnation to hell of tribes in Africa who have not yet been found by other men, to bring things, including the bible.

Bottom Line: I believe we have ALREADY been seen saved, and we must now focus on bringing heaven to earth, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, comforting the sick, visiting those in prison. On judgment day, these are the things that Jesus asks about, he does not pull up a clipboard and say, "All right, now based on how many people you evangilized to, you may go into heaven." You'd go in that scenario, Marchello, I'd go, and I suspect so many others from even different religions would go in what Jesus says in the bible.

I do not seek to be broad minded to find other ways to find God... I know the bible is errant because men wrote it, and men make mistakes. Moses was not there when the world was created, yet he wrote Genesis. The Bible does not include many of the gospels that were written, such as the gospel of Mary Magdelene and the gospel of Judas. The bible was not written in English, there were some translation mistakes along the way.

I am broad minded because I KNOW tha tthe God I believe in would be so petty as to say you, but not you because you didn't happen to hear about it at the right time. Therefore, I am a universaliist. Which you will no doubt say is a cult. It is not. It is a branch of Christianity.

But who are the roots, Marchello, and who are the branches of Christianity? OF religion, even? Unless you are Roman Catholic or Orthodox Christian, you are not a root of Christianit. So, for God's sake, STOP saying that you are the one true way, etc. etc. People find their ways. People find ways to worship that fit them best and if they worship God/a higher being with glory and love, then GOOD FOR THEM.

I am not blind, nor am I deaf. I read the bible, and I read books by people who have studied the bible. I take my faith and religion seriously, for me, not to woudl be a grave mistake.

Other poeple have different ways of dealing with it, and I do not call them wrong. If people can be so strong in their faith that all they need to do is listen to God, then more power to them! If all they need to do is just be swept up in all that is life, then more power to them!

I am the last person to say that there is only one way to worship, only one way to read the bible, only one way, right way, to see God.

I will continue to fight against that idea until the day that I die.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
...I believe that God in his infinite love would not condemn to hell a person who didn't have the mental capabilities to understand this "acceptance," or the condemnation to hell of tribes in Africa who have not yet been found by other men, to bring things, including the bible...

***No one will go to hell because of the reasons that you stated above...but they WILL go to HELL for MURDER, RAPE, ADULTERY, LUST, THEFT. LYING, etc. Sin is NOT failing to hear the gospel. Rather, "SIN is the transgression of the LAW' [1 John 3:4].

Marchello

Originally posted by siriuswriter
... "All right, now based on how many people you evangilized to, you may go into heaven." You'd go in that scenario, Marchello, I'd go, and I suspect so many others from even different religions would go in what Jesus says in the bible...I know the bible is errant because men wrote it, and men make mistakes. Moses was not there when the world was created, yet he wrote Genesis. The Bible does not include many of the gospels that were written, such as the gospel of Mary Magdelene and the gospel of Judas. The bible was not written in English, there were some translation mistakes along the way..."

***On the one hand...you say that you know that you will go to heaven because of what Jesus said in the Bible...but on the other hand...you say the Bible is ERRANT for a litany of reasons. Tell me---WHY would you believe ANYTHING about the Bible if it is ERRANT as you claim?

Too, you say that you believe that Jesus died on the cross for the salvation of everyone...and that is correct. I have a couple of questions to ask you: (1) Who do you say Jesus is?...(2) Did He rise from the grave bodily or spiritually...and (3) How is a person SAVED?

Marchello

Originally posted by siriuswriter
"...Therefore, I am a universaliist. Which you will no doubt say is a cult. It is not. It is a branch of Christianity..."

***El Correct...Universalism is a cult and NOT a sect of Christianity. Universalism teaches that all people will ultimately be saved no matter what they believe here on earth. You could deny God, hate Him, blaspheme against Him, join a Satanist group and murder people and STILL go to heaven.

Below is a conversation between a Mormon and a Universalist:

UNIVERSALIST: "Listen here Mormon, if you continue to believe that you can become a god, that Satan and Jesus are literal brothers, that God has a body of flesh and bones and has a goddess wife, and that you can become a god of your own world, you know what is going to happen to you? You're going to heaven! So there!"

MORMON: "Sounds good to me."

Marchello

1. Jesus was the fully divine and fully human son of God and the Virgin Mary.

2. He rose from the grave both phsyically and spiritually.

3. When Jesus went to hell for those three days, he saved everyone. Past, present and future. No questions asked. Done deal. Not "I have done this amazing feat because I love you, BUT you must jump through hoops a, b, and c before I let you take the prize.