Mormons

Originally posted by debbiejo
So. Greek is not his language, he spoke Aramaic......and lost doesn't necessarily mean hell. It only means not on the right path, not in the right thinking, not knowing...etc.

He didn't want them to keep on the path of the lost, but to be on the right path of thinking on who they are.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Umm... Jesus likely spoke Latin, Hebrew, and Aramaic. Aramaic as the common language, Hebrew because he was a Rabbi, and Latin as the state language that he likely used in addressing Pilate.

Way to not address the question at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are all saying is that Jesus did not speak the language that the new testament was written in, therefore there might be some room for translational errors?

I suppose it would be like if I heard someone speak in English and then wrote about it in Spanish. I'd probably be fairly accurate in describing how I understood the original.

Now Thousands of years from now, someone takes my Spanish version of the talk and translates it into Chinese. Now we're definitely talking room for translational errors.

Well that's happened as well. The first printed bible was in German (the Gutenberg bibe) and then there's been translations into English. And not just one translation, but several.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are all saying is that Jesus did not speak the language that the new testament was written in, therefore there might be some room for translational errors?

Not so much translational errors, but rather things lost in the translation. You can translate something near perfectly, but still lose the nuance, the complexities of the way it was originally spoken (especially in the case of humor. The texts they use to teach Greek are often, it seems, pulled from the works of Greek comic play writes. Now the translation can be as good as possible, but humor is none the less lost.)

The point Debbijo was making that perhaps something was lost in the whole "lost" part of that story. It could mean something else. Not as an error, but simply as a different perspective.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Not so much translational errors, but rather things lost in the translation. You can translate something near perfectly, but still lose the nuance, the complexities of the way it was originally spoken (especially in the case of humor. The texts they use to teach Greek are often, it seems, pulled from the works of Greek comic play writes. Now the translation can be as good as possible, but humor is none the less lost.)

The point Debbijo was making that perhaps something was lost in the whole "lost" part of that story. It could mean something else. Not as an error, but simply as a different perspective.

1 Nephi 13: 26, 28-29, 32, 34-35, 40

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.
• • •
28 Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.
29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

Mormons believe a lot is lost from the original Gospel of Christ. Some removed or altered intentionally, some lost accidentally due to translation.

The translation of Jesus Christ and Old testament has been translated correctly, it's just people over the years like false church's change or remove the true meaning of the Bible and what it represents.

What ever you read in the Bible you can find it in the dead sea scrolls, like I said before people and false church's change certain words in the Bible or the meaning to fit there own need, which is a no,no. God even warns that anybody who tampers with the book or change any meaning, you will be erase from the book of life.

Originally posted by the Darkone
The translation of Jesus Christ and Old testament has been translated correctly, it's just people over the years like false church's change or remove the true meaning of the Bible and what it represents.

You can say that with certainty?

What ever you read in the Bible you can find it in the dead sea scrolls, like I said before people and false church's change certain words in the Bible or the meaning to fit there own need, which is a no,no. God even warns that anybody who tampers with the book or change any meaning, you will be erase from the book of life.

Well, the OT testament part at any rate. Because the Dead Sea Scrolls don't cover the rest. And we have to hope the Dead Sea scrolls carry the true essance of that part of the religion... since they most certainly weren't their are the founding of the faith. And I would question whether they are the "original" records. Were they possibly copied from earlier versions?

And a power, any book, has no power. Power only comes from the consumer, and they will naturally interpret it based upon their perception of what the words say. A great deal of that wont even be realised The Bible isn't set in stone, people will read it, and they will get different things out of it.

I'm incredibly surprised Marchello hasn't stepped in, saying that God wrote the bible by hand, and in English. New Revised Standard version.

Originally posted by siriuswriter
I'm incredibly surprised Marchello hasn't stepped in, saying that God wrote the bible by hand, and in English. New Revised Standard version.

He doesn't really believe that? Does he? 😕

*sarcasm*

Originally posted by siriuswriter
*sarcasm*

It was too close to reality. 😱

Originally posted by the Darkone
The translation of Jesus Christ and Old testament has been translated correctly, it's just people over the years like false church's change or remove the true meaning of the Bible and what it represents.

Originally posted by the Darkone
What ever you read in the Bible you can find it in the dead sea scrolls, like I said before people and false church's change certain words in the Bible or the meaning to fit there own need, which is a no,no.

Originally posted by the Darkone
God even warns that anybody who tampers with the book or change any meaning, you will be erase from the book of life.

If you interpret this verse as such you must also consider this verse:

Deuteronomy 4:2
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Revelation 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Thus we see that the Revelations reference is to the book of this prophecy, Revelation.

Finally, the verse speaks of a punishment for the sin, this does not stop anyone from actually doing it intentionally or unintentionally, at any point in time, it only speaks to a warning against such.

*["Marchello, you tell lies about us and what we believe on this thread. We wish you would tell the truth or just leave."]

***You can't handle the truth...that is why you protest so vigorously. What I post I document.

The doctrines of the LDS church are pure FABRICATIONS and FANTASY...the CONCOCTION of an UNREGENERATE sinner who, like his father Lucifer, would elevate himself into a "god" and ASSAIL the throne of God. Most of your fabrications are NOT initially taught to potential converts...instead, "they are revealed later as one matures and gains the ability to accept them." The LDS church tries to make its official doctrines appear Christian but what underlies those Christian sounding terms is far from Christian in meaning.

Following are the teachings of its OFFICIALS throughout the years. Please note that these teachings are documented FROM Mormon writers...NOT anti-Mormon writers.

Finally, many Mormons respond that most of the citations below are NOT from OFFICIAL Mormon writings...as IF that DISPROVES the DOCTRINES they teach. If they are NOT official, fine...but, if they are NOT...then WHY have the Mormon "apostles" and high officials TAUGHT them, WRITTEN them, and WHY are THEIR books SOLD in Mormon BOOKSTORES? The following is what Mormons are taught...to wit:

(1)The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration [Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 635.] They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth.
(2)We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament [Mormon Doctrine, p. 606].
(3)The Book of Mormon is MORE CORRECT than the Bible [History of the Church, 4:461].
(4)If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be NO SALVATION. There is NO SALVATION [the context is the FULL GOSPEL including EXALTATION to GODHOOD] OUTSIDE the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-Saints [Mormon Doctrine, p. 670].
(5)There are MANY gods [Mormon Doctrine, p. 163].
(6)There is a MOTHER god [Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443].
(7)God used to be a MAN on another PLANET [Mormon Doctrine, p. 321., Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 333].
(8)After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god [Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354].
(9)God the Father HAD A Father [Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Jornal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p.19; Milton Hunter, First Council of Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105].
(10)God resides near a STAR called KOLUB [Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428].
(11)God the Father has a body of flesh and bones [Doctrines and Covenants, 130:22].
(12)God is in the FORM of a MAN [Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3].
(13)God is MARRIED to his goddess WIFE and has spirit children [Mormon Doctrine, p. 516].
(14)We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born NATURALLY on earth [Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218].
(15)The FIRST spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus [Mormon Doctrine, p. 129].
(16)The DEVIL was born as a spirit AFTER Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," [Mormon Doctrine, p. 163].
(17)Jesus and Satan are spirit BROTHERS and we were ALL born as SIBLINGS in heaven to them BOTH [Mormon Doctrine, p. 163].
(18)A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the Father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god" [Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 8].
(19)God had SEXUAL relations with MARY to make the BODY of Jesus [Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857;Vol. 8, p. 115]. This one is DISPUTED among many Mormons and NOT always "officially" taught and believed. Nevertheless, Brigham Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon Church taught it.
(20)Jesus' SACRIFICE was NOT able to CLEANSE us from ALL our sins (murder and repeated adultery are EXCEPTIONS) [Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856].
(21)Good works are NECESSARY for salvation [Articles of Faith, p. 92].
(22)There is NO salvation WITHOUT ACCEPTING Joseph Smith as a prophet of God [Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188].
(23)Baptism for the DEAD [Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 11. p. 141]. This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
(24)There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial [Mormon Doctrine, p 348].
(25)The Holy Ghost is a male personage [A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, by Le Grand Richards, Salt Lake City, 1956, p. 118; Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p.179].

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
*["Marchello, you tell lies about us and what we believe on this thread. We wish you would tell the truth or just leave."]

***You can't handle the truth...that is why you protest so vigorously. What I post I document.

Just a point - quoting the Bible is not documenting. Especially when the Bible isn't at all clear on what the correct way of faith is. Doing as it says - but the point is it is highly interpretable.

And you never answer my posts, I guess they scare you or something.

The doctrines of the LDS church are pure FABRICATIONS and FANTASY...the CONCOCTION of an UNREGENERATE sinner who, like his father Lucifer, would elevate himself into a "god" and ASSAIL the throne of God. Most of your fabrications are NOT initially taught to potential converts...instead, "they are revealed later as one matures and gains the ability to accept them." The LDS church tries to make its official doctrines appear Christian but what underlies those Christian sounding terms is far from Christian in meaning.

Wait, aren't you confusing one stupid conspiracy (Masons are actually Devil Worshippers, you only learn that later) with the Mormons? I bet you read Chick tracts, you sick, sick little man.

Following are the teachings of its OFFICIALS throughout the years. Please note that these teachings are documented FROM Mormon writers...NOT anti-Mormon writers.

Ahhh.... where exactly does your religious stance come from? It would be fair to say, if you aren't in fact a church of one, that it has been derived from the officials of your church.

Of course to counter this you say "Nnnnnnooooo. My church officials simply do what the Bible tells them. They aren't doing anything themselves and thus aren't acting instead of God." Which is a load of crap. They are just as guilty of presenting their understanding of the Bible as fact as anyone else - and they have as much right to claim that as any other person educated in faith. Be it a Catholic, a Mormon, a Evangelists etc.

Finally, many Mormons respond that most of the citations below are NOT from OFFICIAL Mormon writings...as IF that DISPROVES the DOCTRINES they teach. If they are NOT official, fine...but, if they are NOT...then WHY have the Mormon "apostles" and high officials TAUGHT them, WRITTEN them, and WHY are THEIR books SOLD in Mormon BOOKSTORES? The following is what Mormons are taught...to wit:

ZOMG!!!! Poor Marcello.

I think out of boredom i will take Marcello's side on this argument:

Okay, Marcello, ill back you up with your style:

MORMONS ARE CHILDREN OF LUCIFER AND ARE EVIL !

CATHOLICS ARE CHILDREN OF LUCIFER AND ARE EVIL !

BUDDHISTS ARE EVIL AND SHOULD BE BURNT ALIVE !

HOMOSEXUALS AND JEWS...the LOWEST OF THE LOW ! YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY !

AND YOU GODDAMN MUSLIMS ! A BUNCH OF TERRORIST SUICIDE BOMBERS !!!

YOU ALL DISGUST ME ! BURN IN HELL !

-LORD URIZEN and Marcello

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think out of boredom i will take [b]Marcello's side on this argument:

Okay, Marcello, ill back you up with your style:

MORMONS ARE CHILDREN OF LUCIFER AND ARE EVIL !

CATHOLICS ARE CHILDREN OF LUCIFER AND ARE EVIL !

BUDDHISTS ARE EVIL AND SHOULD BE BURNT ALIVE !

HOMOSEXUALS AND JEWS...the LOWEST OF THE LOW ! YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY !

AND YOU GODDAMN MUSLIMS ! A BUNCH OF TERRORIST SUICIDE BOMBERS !!!

YOU ALL DISGUST ME ! BURN IN HELL !

-LORD URIZEN and Marcello [/B]

I don't think he will get your sense of humor. 🙄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't think he will get your sense of humor. 🙄

It's not humor for Marcello....that's what he basically thinks.

Another time, instead of addressing me as Lord Urizen, he referred to me as "that sperm gulper"

He's the most open person about his personal Hatred

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
It's not humor for Marcello....that's what he basically thinks.

Another time, instead of addressing me as Lord Urizen, he referred to me as "that sperm gulper"

He's the most open person about his personal Hatred

😆 "that sperm gulper" 😆 you have to admit that's funny. 😂

I know, he is filled with hate, it comes across very clearly.