Mormons

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think out of boredom i will take [b]Marcello's side on this argument:

Okay, Marcello, ill back you up with your style:

MORMONS ARE CHILDREN OF LUCIFER AND ARE EVIL !

CATHOLICS ARE CHILDREN OF LUCIFER AND ARE EVIL !

BUDDHISTS ARE EVIL AND SHOULD BE BURNT ALIVE !

HOMOSEXUALS AND JEWS...the LOWEST OF THE LOW ! YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY !

AND YOU GODDAMN MUSLIMS ! A BUNCH OF TERRORIST SUICIDE BOMBERS !!!

YOU ALL DISGUST ME ! BURN IN HELL !

-LORD URIZEN and Marcello [/B]

But Urizen, marchello uses capitals at random not for the whole thing. 🙄

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
😆 "that sperm gulper" 😆 you have to admit that's funny. 😂

I know, he is filled with hate, it comes across very clearly.

Oh no, it's fkn hilarious....even I was cracking up at what he said.

But he didn't mean it as a joke, he meant it out of spite and disgust towards me.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh no, it's fkn hilarious....even I was cracking up at what he said.

But he didn't mean it as a joke, he meant it out of spite and disgust towards me.

I know, he is a hateful person, but the rest (mostly) of us like you. So, cheer up. 😄

***My God! All of Marchello's posts have made me see an EPIPHANY! Thank YOU, Sperm GULPER! To Wit-

[Mormons are children of LUCIFER and should be BURNT in HELL.

Catholics are CHILDREN of Lucifer and SHOULD be burnt IN Hell.

BHUDDISTS ARE evil and should be burnt ALIVE.

Homsexuals AND Jews...THE lowest of the LOW. YOU will BURN in HELL for all ETERNITY.

And you MUSLIMS. A BUNCH of terrorist SUICIDE bombers.

You ALL disgust ME. Burn IN hell.]

***Cults. All OF you. I feel so much... more... SUPERIOR.

Marchello, Lord URZIEN, and siriusWRITER

Originally posted by Marchello
(19)God had SEXUAL relations with MARY to make the BODY of Jesus [Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857;Vol. 8, p. 115]. This one is DISPUTED among many Mormons and NOT always "officially" taught and believed. Nevertheless, Brigham Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon Church taught it.

Go away Marchello.

Anyone wishing to assess if Marchello is correct go to these:

Journal of Discourses Vol. 4 pg. 215-220
Journal of Discourses Vol. 8 pg. 114-116

I don't have to go to the links, Regret. I believe you. You have much more credibility in my eyes than the Other. After all, you don't tell me what I think, and/or tell me that what I say is not what I mean.

*["...and yes, we are Christian because we restored the true gospel which was lost by apostasy that our great prophet points out..."]

***No you are NOT Christians...and the REASON that you are NOT is because, like any other CULT, you DENY one or more of the ESSENTIAL doctrines of Christianity. Of the ESSENTIAL doctrines (Jesus is GOD in the FLESH, FORGIVENESS of SINS is by GRACE ALONE, and Jesus ROSE from the DEAD PHYSICALLY),...Mormonism DISTORTS TWO of them...to wit: (1)The PERSON of Jesus...and (2)His WORK of SALVATION.

Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a BODY of FLESH and BONES (D. & C. 130:22)...and that the Lord Jesus Christ is a CREATION. It teaches that He was BEGOTTEN in heaven as one of God's spirit children [Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8]. This is in strict CONTRAST to the Biblical teaching that He is GOD in the FLESH [John 1:1, 14], ETERNAL [John 1:1,2,15], UNCREATED, yet born on earth [Colossians 1:15]...and the CREATOR of ALL [John 1:3;Colossians 1:16-17]. Jesus CANNOT be BOTH CREATED and NOT CREATED at the SAME time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is "god" in flesh...it teaches that He is "a" god in flesh...ONE of THREE "gods" that comprise the OFFICE of the Trinity [Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40]. These THREE "gods" are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in DIRECT CONTRADICTION of the biblical DOCTRINE that there is ONLY ONE GOD [Isaiah 44:6,8: 45:5].

Because Mormonism ERRORS in WHO Jesus IS...SALVATION [the FORGIVENESS of SINS] does NOT occur and the Mormon is STILL in his SINS. Christians are SAVED from their SINS and JUDGMENT by putting their TRUST in JESUS for the FORGIVENESS of their SINS. But, faith is only as GOOD as the OBJECT in WHICH it is PLACED. The Mormon
"jesus" is NOT the ONE of the Bible...even though they call him "jesus"...say he died for SINS...and was born in Bethlehem. The Mormon "jesus" does NOT exist. It is the NATURE of Jesus Christ that is the ISSUE. Jesus MUST be GOD in FLESH, (SECOND person of the Trinity)...NOT "a" god in flesh who is the BROTHER of the DEVIL. He MUST be UNCREATED, NOT CREATED, and He MUST be the CREATOR [Colossians 1:16-17]. This is WHO the TRUE Jesus really IS: GOD...CREATOR...UNCREATED...NOT the BROTHER of the DEVIL!

Mormon theology teaches that god used to be a MAN on another PLANET...that he BECAME a "god" by following the LAWS and ORDINANCES of THAT "god" on THAT world...and that he brought one of his WIVES to THIS world with WHOM he PRODUCES spirit children...who then INHABIT HUMAN bodies at BIRTH. The FIRST spirit child to be BORN was JESUS...the SECOND was SATAN...and then WE ALL followed. The "jesus" of Mormonism is definitely NOT the SAME JESUS of the Bible. Therefore, faith in the Mormon "jesus", is faith MISPLACED...because the Mormon "jesus" DOESN'T exist.

Mormonism teaches that the SACRIFICE of Jesus on the CROSS itself (and RECEIVING it by FAITH) is NOT SUFFICIENT to bring FORGIVENESS
of SINS. It teaches that the FORGIVENESS of SINS is OBTAINED through
a COOPERATIVE EFFORT with God...that is, we must be GOOD and FOLLOW the LAWS and ORDINANCES of the Mormon Church in order to OBTAIN FORGIVENESS. Considerer James Talmage, a very prominent Mormon figure who said, "The sectarian dogma of justification by faith alone has exercised an influence for evil" [Articles, p. 432]...and "Hence the justice of the scriptural doctrine that salvation comes to the individual only through OBEDIENCE' [Articles, p. 81]. This CONTRADICTS the Biblical doctrine of the FORGIVENESS of SINS by GRACE through FAITH [Romans 5:1;6:23;Ephesians 2:8-9] and the doctrine that WORKS are NOT part of salvation but a RESULT of them [Romans 4:5;James 2:14-16].

To further confuse the matter...Mormonism further states that salvation is twofold. It maintains that salvation is BOTH FORGIVENESS of SINS and UNIVERSAL RESURRECTION. So when a Mormon speaks of salvation by GRACE...he is usually referring to UNIVERSAL RESURRECTION. But the Bible speaks of salvation as the forgiveness of SINS, NOT simple UNIVERSAL RESURRECTION. Where Mormanism states that forgiveness of sins is NOT by FAITH ALONE, the Bible DOES teach it. Which is correct? Obviously, it IS the Bible.

Mormonism, to JUSTIFY its ABERRANT theology, has UNDERMINED the AUTHORITY and TRUSTWORTHINESS of the Bible. The 8th article of faith from the Mormon Church states, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is TRANSLATED correctly." The interesting thing is that Joseph Smith ALLEGEDLY corrected the Bible in what is called "The Inspired Version"...though it is NOT used by the LDS church. Though they CLAIM they TRUST the Bible...in reality they DO NOT...even the "INSPIRED VERSION" by their great "prophet" Joe Smith. They use Mormon PRESUPPOSITIONS to interpret it. For example, where the Bible says there are NO other gods in the UNIVERSE [Isaiah 43:10;44:6,8], they interpret it to mean "no other gods of this world." They do NOT trust what it says and they often state that the Bible is NOT translated correctly.

Why is Mormanism a NON-Christian cult?...because it ADDS works to salvation. It DENIES that Christ Jesus is the UNCREATED CREATOR. It ALTERS the biblical teaching of the ATONEMENT...CONTRADICTS the Christian teaching of MONOTHEISM...and UNDERMINES the AUTHORITY and RELIABILITY of the Bible.

Being a Christian means that you have TRUSTED in the TRUE God for SALVATION...in the SUBSTITUTIONARY sacrifice of the TRUE Jesus of the Bible...and NOT the "jesus" of the Mormons who is the BROTHER of the DEVIL.

Marchello

I just want to clarify something. In Catholic teachings, the concept of the Trinity is not to say that there is three gods but rather three persons in one God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three parts of the same person. God manifests Himself as the Father, as evident in the Old Testament and Jesus always referring to God as the Father. God manifests Himself as the Son, as evident in the New Testament with Jesus. God manifests Himself as the Holy Spirit, as evident in the Acts of the Apostles. However, all these "manifestations" were always present. Jesus wasn't made when he was born and the Holy Spirit was not made at Pentecost. This is evident by the beginning of John (now I don't know my scripture by heart but I kinda remember it) where it says something about the Word being present at the beginning and the Word being made flesh and all that. Also, the fact that the Holy Spirit was always there is from all the references in the Old Testament about "the Spirit of the Lord" descending on someone.

If the Mormon teachings on the Trinity are anything like the teachings of Catholicism then you are wrong in saying that its three gods.

Disclaimer: I don't believe in all this mumbo jumbo, but I was raised Catholic and went to 7 years of Catholic school so I know a bit about it and I hate when people twist things to benefit their own argument. I could be way off base with this however, because I know nothing of the Mormon faith. 😛

*["Everything but this was correct. This one you are wrong about due to your interpretation of Brigham Young's statements. Brigham Young never taught such a thing. We believe that Christ is biologically the son of God the Father and Mary, we do not believe God had sexual relations with Mary. We believe Mary to have been a virgin."]

***Nay...I am correct on EVERYTHING that I posted in that post. Too, I have a right to my interpretation...even if you DON'T like it or agree with it...and your disagreement of it does NOT alter the FACT that your "sage" Brigham Young DID teach that Father god did have SEXUAL RELATIONS with Mary according to your doctrine and his [i.e., Brigham Young ] own words CONFIRM it...to wit: "...When the time came that his first-born [i.e., Jesus], the Saviour, should come into the world and take a TABERNACLE [i.e., Body], the Father came Himself and 'favored that spirit' [i.e., Christ's spirit 'in the morning of preexistence'] with a TABERNACLE [i.e., Body] 'instead of letting any other MAN do it.' The Saviour was begotten 'by the Father' [i.e., who was once a MAN of FLESH and BONES as we are...so say YE] of 'his [Christ's] spirit.'" So then...even though the Father-god begat his spirit child "jesus" in heaven...he came himself and "favored that spirit child "jesus" with an earhly "tabernacle" [i.e., body]..."instead of letting any other MAN 'do it.'"

Please Bishop...no more fairytales!

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
*["Everything but this was correct. This one you are wrong about due to your interpretation of Brigham Young's statements. Brigham Young never taught such a thing. We believe that Christ is biologically the son of God the Father and Mary, we do not believe God had sexual relations with Mary. We believe Mary to have been a virgin."]

***Nay...I am correct on EVERYTHING that I posted in that post. Too, I have a right to my interpretation...even if you DON'T like it or agree with it...and your disagreement of it does NOT alter the FACT that your "sage" Brigham Young DID teach that Father god did have SEXUAL RELATIONS with Mary according to your doctrine and his [i.e., Brigham Young ] own words CONFIRM it...to wit: "...When the time came that his first-born [i.e., Jesus], the Saviour, should come into the world and take a TABERNACLE [i.e., Body], the Father came Himself and 'favored that spirit' [i.e., Christ's spirit 'in the morning of preexistence'] with a TABERNACLE [i.e., Body] 'instead of letting any other MAN do it.' The Saviour was begotten 'by the Father' [i.e., who was once a MAN of FLESH and BONES as we are...so say YE] of 'his [Christ's] spirit.'" So then...even though the Father-god begat his spirit child "jesus" in heaven...he came himself and "favored that spirit child "jesus" with an earhly "tabernacle" [i.e., body]..."instead of letting any other MAN 'do it.'"

Please Bishop...no more fairytales!

Marchello

ADDENDA:

"...The birth of the Saviour was as NATURAL as are the births of OUR children; it was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH and BLOOD--was BEGOTTEN of His Father [i.e., who 'has a body of FLESH and BONES' (D. & C. 130:22)], as we were of OUR fathers" [Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, pp. 114-116].

Sounds like NATURAL SEX to me.

Marchello

*["I don't have to go to the links, Regret. I believe you."]

***Eve believed the serpent too...he LIED. Regret is the "spirit brother" of that serpent [Satan]...and like his "brother" he is a LIAR...and you believe him.

*********************************************

*["...You have much more credibility in my eyes than the Other..."]

***Of course...because you are both the SAME...DENIERS of both the Father and the Son that you might be saved.

*********************************************

*[After all, you don't tell me what I think, and/or tell me that what I say is not what I mean."]

***I don't do any of those things...the Scriptures do that. Nothing of what you say is supported by Scripture...so it is NOT difficult for me to assess your mind-set and what you mean when you say things..."For out of the mouth spews forth the ABUNDANCE of the heart" [Matthew 12:34].

Marchello

Originally posted by Marchello
***Eve believed the serpent too...he LIED. Regret is the "spirit brother" of that serpent [Satan]...and like his "brother" he is a LIAR...and you believe him.

How do we know that you also aren't the "spirit brother" of Satan? All we have for it is your word based upon YOUR understanding of the Bible...

***Of course...because you are both the SAME...DENIERS of both the Father and the Son that you might be saved.

Actually they both profess faith in God, Jesus and the whole shebang - just faith that is different from your own.

If they were deniers of both the father and the son wouldn't it sound like "we don't believe in God and Jesus" (Atheist) or "We believe in God, but not the God of Christianity (many other faiths)? Rather then "we both believe in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit like this..." How exactly does them having the faith they do equal denying faith?

Tats teh silly.

***I don't do any of those things...the Scriptures do that. Nothing of what you say is supported by Scripture...so it is NOT difficult for me to assess your mind-set and what you mean when you say things..."For out of the mouth spews forth the ABUNDANCE of the heart" [Matthew 12:34].

It is when one has a terminally ignorant, biased, baseless mindset such as your own. When it is like that you can't ever understand another - because no one is like you, you instantly respond with enmity and venom. The scriptures are not clear. I repeat they are not clear. If they were there would not be the profusion of different Christian factions that there are.

You are really just making yourself look foolish.

***Nay...I am correct on EVERYTHING that I posted in that post.

Pride. Before. The. Fall.

You know the drill.

Too, I have a right to my interpretation...even if you DON'T like it or agree with it...

Then you admit to having interpreted some things? Sorry chum, you have also interpreted you Bible like every other person has, and likely subscribed, consciously or not, to the teachings of others based upon their interpretations.

...and your disagreement of it does NOT alter the FACT that your "sage" Brigham Young DID teach that Father god did have SEXUAL RELATIONS with Mary according to your doctrine and his [i.e., Brigham Young ] own words CONFIRM it...to wit: "...When the time came that his first-born [i.e., Jesus], the Saviour, should come into the world and take a TABERNACLE [i.e., Body], the Father came Himself and 'favored that spirit' [i.e., Christ's spirit 'in the morning of preexistence'] with a TABERNACLE [i.e., Body] 'instead of letting any other MAN do it.' The Saviour was begotten 'by the Father' [i.e., who was once a MAN of FLESH and BONES as we are...so say YE] of 'his [Christ's] spirit.'" So then...even though the Father-god begat his spirit child "jesus" in heaven...he came himself and "favored that spirit child "jesus" with an earhly "tabernacle" [i.e., body]..."instead of letting any other MAN 'do it.'"

I for one don't see the great travesty of the idea of God coming down and creating a little Jesus. Hell, that would make the story all the better. If Zeus is man enough why not God? What is so dreadful about the idea?

Is there some bonus points in your Church that are awarded to the people who idolise the most unreachable paragons of virtue?

"OMG!!! Blasphemy! God having sex with Mary - how dare you sully the holy father with such a sick perverted accusation! Baby Jesus is spinning in his grave to hear suck sickness! Oh, I feel faint. I am tainted just hearing it."

I think you are kind of the perverted one.

Thing 1

*["All right. I've talked enough. I suppose I seem like some hippie liberal Christian, and I suppose that's what I am..."]

***You are, indeed, a "liberal"...but from your testimony on this board your views are ABSOLUTELY NOT CHRISTIAN...and so I must, of necessity, take you at your words and comparing them with Scripture...I must conclude that you are NOT a Christian...CONTRARY to your profession that you are.

Marchello

Underline by me.

Thing 2

Originally posted by Marchello

*[After all, you don't tell me what I think, and/or tell me that what I say is not what I mean."]

***I don't do any of those things...

Marchello

*breathes in deeply* Ah... I love the smell of hipocrisy in the morning...

Originally posted by Marxman
I just want to clarify something. In Catholic teachings, the concept of the Trinity is not to say that there is three gods but rather three persons in one God. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three parts of the same person. God manifests Himself as the Father, as evident in the Old Testament and Jesus always referring to God as the Father. God manifests Himself as the Son, as evident in the New Testament with Jesus. God manifests Himself as the Holy Spirit, as evident in the Acts of the Apostles. However, all these "manifestations" were always present. Jesus wasn't made when he was born and the Holy Spirit was not made at Pentecost. This is evident by the beginning of John (now I don't know my scripture by heart but I kinda remember it) where it says something about the Word being present at the beginning and the Word being made flesh and all that. Also, the fact that the Holy Spirit was always there is from all the references in the Old Testament about "the Spirit of the Lord" descending on someone.

If the Mormon teachings on the Trinity are anything like the teachings of Catholicism then you are wrong in saying that its three gods.

Disclaimer: I don't believe in all this mumbo jumbo, but I was raised Catholic and went to 7 years of Catholic school so I know a bit about it and I hate when people twist things to benefit their own argument. I could be way off base with this however, because I know nothing of the Mormon faith. 😛

Marchello is correct on most of his points, although he tends to twist them to make the point sound different than our actual belief. He has shown this in the conception of Christ statements he makes. He twists the word "partook" into "had sexual relations with". We do not know how it occurred, but Christ in our belief is the literal biological offspring of God in Mormon theology. We do not believe that God the Father, or anyone else aside from her lawful husband Joseph, had sexual intercourse with Mary.

The problem is that Marchello is correct much of what we believe is not stated in the Bible, our beliefs do not conflict with the Bible though, only with the majority of Christian's interpretation of the Bible. This is not a problem in our eyes:

Articles of Faith 9
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

James 1:5-6
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

John 20:30
30 ¶ And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book

We believe that much Marchello's beliefs are beliefs that Satan has inspired, they are interpretations of the Bible, but just as Marchello twists our beliefs when he describes them, Satan, and Marchello by proxy, has twisted the truth that is in the Bible.

Originally posted by Marchello
*["Everything but this was correct. This one you are wrong about due to your interpretation of Brigham Young's statements. Brigham Young never taught such a thing. We believe that Christ is biologically the son of God the Father and Mary, we do not believe God had sexual relations with Mary. We believe Mary to have been a virgin."]

***Nay...I am correct on EVERYTHING that I posted in that post. Too, I have a right to my interpretation...even if you DON'T like it or agree with it...and your disagreement of it does NOT alter the FACT that your "sage" Brigham Young DID teach that Father god did have SEXUAL RELATIONS with Mary according to your doctrine and his [i.e., Brigham Young ] own words CONFIRM it...to wit: "...When the time came that his first-born [i.e., Jesus], the Saviour, should come into the world and take a TABERNACLE [i.e., Body], the Father came Himself and 'favored that spirit' [i.e., Christ's spirit 'in the morning of preexistence'] with a TABERNACLE [i.e., Body] 'instead of letting any other MAN do it.' The Saviour was begotten 'by the Father' [i.e., who was once a MAN of FLESH and BONES as we are...so say YE] of 'his [Christ's] spirit.'" So then...even though the Father-god begat his spirit child "jesus" in heaven...he came himself and "favored that spirit child "jesus" with an earhly "tabernacle" [i.e., body]..."instead of letting any other MAN 'do it.'"

Please Bishop...no more fairytales!

Marchello

Proverbs 29:20
20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Originally posted by Marchello
*["I don't have to go to the links, Regret. I believe you."]

***Eve believed the serpent too...he LIED. Regret is the "spirit brother" of that serpent [Satan]...and like his "brother" he is a LIAR...and you believe him.

Prove that you are not the serpent or his "spirit brother".

Originally posted by Marchello

***No you are NOT Christians...and the REASON that you are NOT is because, like any other CULT, you DENY one or more of the ESSENTIAL doctrines of Christianity. Of the ESSENTIAL doctrines (Jesus is GOD in the FLESH, FORGIVENESS of SINS is by GRACE ALONE, and Jesus ROSE from the DEAD PHYSICALLY),...Mormonism DISTORTS TWO of them...to wit: (1)The PERSON of Jesus...and (2)His WORK of SALVATION.

Ok, let's look at these "essential doctrines"

1 - Jesus is God in the Flesh - Mormon Belief is that Jesus is the Same Jehovah of the old testament, and that he is one in purpose with the other 2 members of the Godhead.

oops looks like we have that one covered

2 - Forgiveness by grace alone - This is a doctrine which contradicts with the Bible as a whole. If this were required to be a Christian, then Jesus Himself would not be Christian. Remember what he told the rich young man who asked what he needed to do to be saved? Was it "just believe"? NO, it was "keep the commandments" Faith is needed, but without works faith is useless, ie. dead. James 2

3 - Jesus rose from the dead - even Marchello admits that we have this one.

Seems to me that if a Christian believes what Jesus taught on these 3 "essential doctrines" then -

MARCHELLO IS NOT A REAL CHRISTIAN!!!

Who'd of guessed it?

-edit-

Point of clarification on point #2 - Grace alone is how we are saved, Faith made effective through works is how we gain access to that grace.

Umm... the grace should come first, and works will flow out of it. If works are not evident, then grace mustn't be at work.

Originally posted by Regret
Do not be so hasty with your words Marchello:

I like you. 😄 🙂