Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Are Mormons exclusively in America, and does the Book of Mormon refer to other people as possible Mormons or is it just the group that already exist? (Utah was it?)Is it ''convertable'' evangelical thing or....?
Are they branch of Christianity? Are they weird, and/or fundamentalists?
Convertable Evangelical? I am unsure as to your meaning here.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not entirely relatable to the conception of the majority of "Christian" denominations. We are as close to them as they are to the current conception of the Jewish religion. We would claim that with the LDS Church Christ has done the same thing for Christianity as Christ did for Judaism in his day, the LDS Church is a clarification and realignment of religion with God and his purposes. We claim that men have distorted the Truth that was held in the body of the overarching concept of Christianity causing the true Priesthood and authority of God to be lost among men, Christ thus re-established the Church and returned the keys of the priesthood to the Earth.
We consider ourselves Christian, but the rest of Christianity does not. We are considered weird as we hold strong, often conservative, morals that do not fit with the norm in Western culture and society.
I am personally glad that we are not grouped with the rest of Christianity as I believe the rest of Christianity is often pompous and political in nature and has little to recommend it.
Originally posted by AllianceFairly correct, although we reject the Doctrine termed Trinitarian Doctrine. We believe Christ was a man. We believe God to be the literal father of our spirit as well as the initial father of the physical man in some manner, exact method of this is unknown to us. We thus believe man is divine in potential. Christ became a God, and he is the God of any who need aid in attaining their promise as sons and daughters of deity. This is rather complex in explanation and so I will not go into detail. We believe all the angels, and all men, as well as all demons and the devil himself are all children of God with the same initial potential and nature. We believe that attaining a body is a step in our personal and individual progression from our premortal spirit form to the exist in a manner as God. We believe conceptions of the Godhead and their nature as described in traditional Christianity have been twisted by philosophy and tradition into the form they are present in today.
Mormonism is a branch of Christianity, founded in the US. I'd be surprized if they had a large contingency outside of the US.They're not fundamentalist or wierd, but they are a far branch of Christianity...they reject the Trinity, accepts that Jesus was a man and not a god on earth, and they believe in the continuous revelation of God (modern day prophets).
Originally posted by MarchelloYou are an amusing character Marchello, you are as worthwhile as the Devil himself. Your father whose semen aided in your physical formation, is just "a" father? or is he "your" father? Do you hold respect for him to the same degree as other fathers or more? If your brother becomes a father does it lessen your esteem of your father? Don't speak for us on what we believe, we hold our Heavenly Father with more esteem than any other being, and Christ with more esteem than any other of our Brothers, we worship the Father through Christ. Do not fallaciously claim Christ or the Father are only another couple of "gods" in our eyes. You are in error in such statements, given these please shut up.
***Mormonism is a distinctly American cult started by a murderer, pedophile, and thief Joseph Smith. They are NOT a Christian religion and believe that they will evolve into gods...beget more gods...have their own planet and a goddess wife and beget children who will become gods...gods all over the place. Too, they do NOT believe in Jesus Christ as do Christians...and consider Him as just another "god" among many gods.Marchello
Originally posted by 2D_MASTER
I dont know about thier creeds, so I will keep my mouth shut. There are lots of questionable things that Jopseph Smiths said, wrote and did. For example he was Mason, and that he have 3 different written accounts of his first devine visit.
So? There are three differing accounts of the crucifixion in the Bible. The same logic thus refutes its validity, if such logic is accepted. Do you have issues with the Masons?
Originally posted by lil bitchinessJoseph Smith prayed to God to learn which of the religions was the correct one. Upon praying he stated that he saw two separate and distinct personages, God the Father and Jesus Christ, and that they told him that the religions present were incorrect, having been corrupted by men. He was then given Golden Plates to translate, these plates held the record of the communication between a group of people from the America's with God and their story, this became known as the Book of Mormon. The Golden Plates were then taken by an Angel. The Prophet, Joseph Smith, then received the ordinances of Baptism and the Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods by the laying on of hands, by way of divine messengers. He then organized and established the Church according to the structure of the early Church presented in the Bible and revelation from God, including the Twelve Apostles and the Quorum of the Seventy. Joseph Smith then, also through revelation, brought temples, and temple work, back to the Earth, including Baptism for the dead.
What did Joseph Smiths do?
Joseph Smith spoke with deity and was the mouthpiece for God on Earth during his lifetime.
Re: Anyone else here LDS(mormon)/ want to talk about this?
Originally posted by ~dorkerina~
😱 HI.------other stuff------------Any other questions??
Let me know, I don't bite!😉
# I´d like to know why you follow a false prophet ie Joseph Smith, Jr?
# have your read Revelation 22:18-9 HERE "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to this, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book." By adding these golden plates to the scriptures your religion surely comes under this or not? Not to mention misleading people.
Heres a few more questins for good measure.
1. If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? Examples are: 1 Nephi 11:21; 19:20; 20:1 and Alma 29:4. Compare these with the original Book of Mormon.
2. When Christ died, did darkness cover the land for three days or for three hours? (Luke 23:44 and 3 Nephi 8:19, 23).
3.How can a man who is not a descendant of Aaron hold the Aaronic Priesthood? (Numbers 16:40; Heb. 7:13,14).
4.How did Nephi with a few men on a new continent build a temple like Solomon's while Solomon needed 163,300 workmen and seven years to build his temple? (1 Kings 5:13-18 and 2 Nephi 5:15-17).
5.Why was Joseph Smith still preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after he got his revelation in July 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy?
6.How do you explain the fact that 2 Nephi 16:2 is copied from an older version of the KJV of the Bible in Isa 6:2? This is proven because this older KJV (the mistake is corrected in current versions) made a rare gramatical error by using the incorrect plural form of "seraphims" rather than "seraphim".
I could fill numerous forum pages with questions, but that should do for now.
Originally posted by BicnarokThat's really not a fair argument as that passage really only refers to Revelations itself. Revelations was written and distributed independently before the New Testament as we know it was compiled, so that verse can only refer to itself. Unless you are arguing that it was placed at the end of the NT by divine inspiration to seal God's word (but I doubt you're doing that) this is being unfair to Mormon's.
Hi a few questions:-# I´d like to know why you follow a false prophet ie Joseph Smith, Jr?
# have your read Revelation 22:18-9 HERE "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to this, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book." By adding these golden plates to the scriptures your religion surely comes under this or not? Not to mention misleading people.
Originally posted by Regret
Lol, that video is so full of errors that it is not funny. That's like asking mainstream Christian "scientists" to explain evolution and the evidence surrounding it.Not to mention the problems with asking an ex-anything to explain that same anything.
I can't really address it's rights and wrongs. But I do know it was produced by Mormons. Perhaps you could point out the false statements made?
Originally posted by Devil King
YouTube video
I know former mormons who where born into Mormon faith, and saw that video and pretty said that those statements where in older BOM, all of sudden thos old BOM don't exist anymore except by former mormons like the Tanners etc who have old BOM.
Re: Re: Anyone else here LDS(mormon)/ want to talk about this?
Originally posted by BicnarokRofl
Hi a few questions:-# I´d like to know why you follow a false prophet ie Joseph Smith, Jr?
Originally posted by BicnarokLol, the Bible is a collection of books. Rev. 22:18 is referencing the book of revelation which houses the revelation of John the Beloved. Also, reference Deuteronomy 4:2
# have your read Revelation 22:18-9 HERE "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy in this book: If anyone adds anything to this, God will strike him with the plagues that are written in this book." By adding these golden plates to the scriptures your religion surely comes under this or not? Not to mention misleading people.
Deut. 4:2Everything following Deuteronomy is false by the same interpretation.
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Joseph Smith added nothing to the Bible, nor did he take away from it. God can do as he will, who are you to limit God?
Originally posted by BicnarokRofl. If the Bible is true, then why have Christians changed it?
Heres a few more questins for good measure.1. If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? Examples are: 1 Nephi 11:21; 19:20; 20:1 and Alma 29:4. Compare these with the original Book of Mormon.
Originally posted by BicnarokDo eclipses have the same effect in all areas of the earth? No.
2. When Christ died, did darkness cover the land for three days or for three hours? (Luke 23:44 and 3 Nephi 8:19, 23).
Originally posted by Bicnarok
3.How can a man who is not a descendant of Aaron hold the Aaronic Priesthood? (Numbers 16:40; Heb. 7:13,14).
Numbers 16:40This verse does not limit those who hold the Aaronic priesthood only those that will burn the incense.
40 To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the LORD; that he be not as Korah, and as his company: as the LORD said to him by the hand of Moses.
Finally, read the verse prior in Hebrews:
Hebrews 7:12
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
God can do as he will. I don't question if things are different, the Bible testifies of change, not of static state religion.
Originally posted by BicnarokLol, 2 Nephi uses the term "people", it does not limit the number of "people".
4.How did Nephi with a few men on a new continent build a temple like Solomon's while Solomon needed 163,300 workmen and seven years to build his temple? (1 Kings 5:13-18 and 2 Nephi 5:15-17).
Originally posted by BicnarokThere are proper methods for the practice, and improper methods. Sex is good, yet the Bible says you shouldn't have sex with your neighbor's wife. Why does the Bible speak against sex when it previously states that man should reproduce?
5.Why was Joseph Smith still preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after he got his revelation in July 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy?
Originally posted by BicnarokLol, Christ quotes books which are not present in the current Bible due to various compilers believing that they were unnecessary, or not of value, was he in error because later people corrected it?
6.How do you explain the fact that 2 Nephi 16:2 is copied from an older version of the KJV of the Bible in Isa 6:2? This is proven because this older KJV (the mistake is corrected in current versions) made a rare gramatical error by using the incorrect plural form of "seraphims" rather than "seraphim".
Originally posted by Devil KingBecause it is so long, I did not respond myself, here is an excerpt from a Mormon Apologist concerning the video:
I can't really address it's rights and wrongs. But I do know it was produced by Mormons. Perhaps you could point out the false statements made?
http://www.shields-research.org/Critics/GMErrors.htm1. LDS temple services are said to be "reserved for an elite few." In actuality, great efforts are made to assist all members to align their lives with the principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ so that they may enter the temples. They are not "reserved" for the "elite." If not all members worship there, it is by their own choice, and represents a fulfillment of the Biblical truth, "many are called, but few are chosen," for "strait is the gate and narrow the way, and few there be that find it."
2. After LDS mission president Harold R. Goodman described the interview for receiving a temple recommend, a misleading film edit was made so that he seemed to say, "that is the only way we can be with our Heavenly Father." While it is true that certain of the highest heavenly rewards are contingent on making covenants with God in the temple (and living up to them), this is not required for salvation and entrance into the Celestial Kingdom where we will be in the presence of our Heavenly Father. Anyone familiar with LDS doctrine knows this, and the film was edited in such a way as to create a deliberate deception.
3. It was said that "many Mormons came thousands of miles and stood in the rain" to tour the Seattle temple before its dedication because "this may be the only time they may be allowed to enter a Mormon temple" as one of the "select few." In view of #1 above, any LDS member who cared enough about the temple to make that kind of a journey would certainly find it easier to obtain a recommend and attend a temple nearer home. The statement was absurd and unfounded.
4. The Mormon "gods" were said to have "worked their way up" to become gods. This is alien to LDS theology. While we believe that we are the "offspring of God," (Heb. 12:9, Acts 17:29, Ps.82:6) and "joint heirs with Christ," (Rom.8:17, 1 Jn.3:2, Rev. 3:21) we can no more "work ourselves up" to godhood than a piece of coal can "work itself up" to become a diamond or a caterpillar can "work itself up" to be a butterfly. In each case the potential is there, but it is God who must work the miracle. He is the only "Godmaker"!
LDS strive to follow the Savior's admonition to "Be ye perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect."(Matt.5:48) And yet we know that "we have all sinned and come short" of that perfection. In fact, we know that we won't achieve it in this life, and that we must all rely on the Grace of Christ to return to the presence of our Heavenly Father. But "we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like him"(1 John 3:2).
Following the admonition of Paul, we as Latter-day Saints "let this mind be in (us) which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." (Philippians 2:5,6) We do not apologize for believing the Bible. Most Christians consider themselves "a child of the King," yet they don't know what that really means. Latter-day Saints believe the Bible when it says the faithful children of our Heavenly Father are to inherit the kingdom, receive a throne, and sit at the right hand of God. (Rev. 3:21)
5. The quote "As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become" was credited to James E. Talmadge. It was Lorenzo Snow who said this. This is a small thing, but it's evidence of poor research and a disregard for accuracy. Almost any LDS high school seminary student could give the correct attribution for this quote.
6. To demean God's Biblical command to "be fruitful and multiply" by referring to "endless Celestial sex" is an example of the tasteless sensationalism decried by the National Council of Christians and Jews in their report which totally discredited this film.
7. The principles of Celestial Marriage and Eternal Progression were said to be "secrets" that "Mormons don't talk about." This is untrue. While the principle of man's becoming like our Heavenly Father is not discussed in our church meetings nearly as much as one would believe from reading anti-Mormon literature, it is certainly not a secret.
8. Mormonism is described as being far removed from "orthodox" Christianity. It must be remembered that orthodoxy is often subjective in its definition. Christ himself flew in the face of the religious "orthodoxy" of His time. But who was right? Our Lord, or the Scribes and Pharisees? In reality the LDS church is much closer to the "orthodoxy" of the original first century Christians than other churches in the world today. (The popular Protestant doctrine of salvation by faith alone is itself far removed from the historic Catholic theology by which "orthodoxy" was defined for over 1,000 years!)
9. A story is shown in animation of Elohim growing up as a mortal on a planet and later becoming God, our Heavenly Father. Somehow this is implied to be a fantastic and un-Christian doctrine. Yet this is exactly like the story told in the four Gospels of the mortal existence of our Lord Jesus Christ, who later rose from the dead and received the fullness of His glory as God the Son, equal in power and dominion with His Father. Jesus said that he did nothing that he had not seen the Father do. (John 5:19) If Jesus is God, yet lived as a mortal, then why could not His Father have done the same?
10. Blacks are described as being "neutral" in the war that was fought in heaven against Lucifer and the spirits who followed him. This is incorrect. LDS are taught that there were no neutrals in that conflict.
The implication in the film that the LDS church is racist is unjustified. Many blacks and other minorities hold responsible positions of leadership in our Church, and our Indian Placement Program (where LDS members open their homes to assist in the education of Native American children) is unequaled by any other Christian denomination.
11. God the Father (Elohim) is pictured "returning to Earth in human form from the 'starbase Kolob' to have sex with the Virgin Mary in order to provide Jesus with a physical body." The caricature of the Lord of the Universe knocking on the door of a home in Nazareth in the middle of the night is a total perversion of LDS beliefs and has rightly been called "religious pornography" by many Christians who have more taste than the people who produced this film.
Two marvelous events happened on that wondrous night (or day) when Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb. According to the Bible, (1) the Holy Ghost came upon her, and (2) the power of the Highest "overshadowed" her. The first was necessary because no mortal can endure the presence of God the Father without the protection of the Holy Ghost. But Jesus is not the son of the Holy Ghost. God the Father is "the Highest," and it is He who is the father of Jesus. To say otherwise is to "wrest the scriptures."
12. A few speculative remarks from early LDS leaders regarding Jesus having married and fathered children is implied to be official Church doctrine, which it is not. However such a doctrine would not be un-Christian, since the Bible is silent on the subject. (In fact a Presbyterian minister in West Virginia has written a book giving Biblical reasons why he believes that Jesus was indeed married!)
13. Joseph Smith is described as "a young treasure seeker." Although he did once hire out as a laborer for a man looking for treasure, this derogatory term is a definite "half truth" and in no way accurately describes his usual occupation or character.
It is also highly questionable whether it can be substantiated that he was "known for his tall tales," or if this is merely an invention of the film's authors. His mother said he shared stories from The Book of Mormon history with family members, but these are no more "tall tales" than telling about Moses parting the Red Sea.
14. Statement from the film: "The Mormons thank God for Joseph Smith, who claimed that he had done more for us than any other man, including Jesus Christ." This is patently false. The original quote from D & C 135:3 said Joseph Smith had done more for the salvation of men" save Jesus only" than any other man who had lived in the world. There is a world of difference in the two statements, and difference is the truth of what was said versus the deception of those who have deliberately misquoted Joseph Smith.
Defenders of the film have confused this misquote with another reference in LDS Church history (taken from the book also titled The God Makers, not the movie, which is what I am dealing with here) where Joseph Smith said of "keeping a whole church together" that "neither Paul, John, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I!" (Let the reader compare the three quotes to see where the deception lies!) Here, Joseph did not say that he was greater than Jesus as the anti-Mormons have claimed, but rather that he had done a greater work than Jesus. Was this blasphemy? Or fulfillment of a prophecy made by Jesus himself? In John 14:12, the Lord said of whoever believed on Him; "the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do..."
Perhaps Joseph did get a little carried away in his boasting of what happened to be a true fact of history. But this is a human fallibility that Joseph shared with many other Biblical prophets (see Paul in 2 Cor. 11:16-33). In no way does this negate his prophetic calling nor invalidate the truthfulness of the church he restored. To even mention it shows how desperately the critics of the LDS church are grasping at straws. A quick reading of Joseph's speeches or writings would show immediately that neither he nor his followers have ever considered him to be greater than Jesus Christ.15. It is stated that "the Mormon church pressures individuals into divorcing their spouses when they are not measuring up to the Church's standards." This is totally untrue. Several ex-Mormons interviewed in the film said they were counseled by their Bishops to divorce. A quick look at handbooks for Bishops will reveal that the official Church policy is quite the contrary. LDS couples are counseled to make every effort to strengthen and preserve their marriages and families. If Ed Decker knows "literally hundreds of families with stories like this" (being advised to divorce), then why did he have to hire actors to portray 2 of the "estranged husbands" in the film? (These were in addition to two other actors playing attorneys.)
16. One of the major allegations of the film is that "there is a whole area of psychiatric care dealing with depression in the Mormon woman." Much has been made of a 1983 TV documentary produced by KSL television in Salt Lake City called "Mormon Women and Depression." (I watched it and have it on videocassette.) It is never mentioned, however, that this was only one part of a series of programs on depression in various segments of the Utah population. Its importance has been blown out of proportion... another example of the "half truths" in this film which were condemned by the investigators from the NCCJ.
It should also be noted that in the last few years there has been a rise in the awareness of depression in women in general (some think it's brought on by the feminist movement), and a recognition of illnesses like Pre-Menstrual Syndrome, etc. If one is to believe the multitude of commercials heard on Christian radio stations (at least in the LA area) which advertise counseling and PMS treatment centers, it could more legitimately be said that "there is a whole area of psychiatric care dealing with depression in CHRISTIAN women." To single out Mormonism as a cause of depression is at best false and misleading. I have no doubt that virtually 100 percent of LDS women who feel depressed would say if asked that their faith in Christ which they're taught in the Mormon church is their greatest help in OVERCOMING that depression.
17. According to Ed Decker in the film, "Heaven to the Mormon woman is being pregnant for all eternity, one spirit baby after the next." A mental picture is thus drawn which is supposed to be repugnant to today's "liberated" women and somehow un-Christian. In reality, God has not yet completely revealed the process by which spirit children are added to His eternal family (of which we are all a part). But surely the process is more sophisticated than the nine-month gestation period and pregnancy through which mortal women suffer to give birth. It was only after the Fall that God said to the woman Eve, "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children." Therefore "pregnant" is a term which in all likelihood is applicable only to the post-Fall mortal condition.
18. Sandra Tanner is described as "considered to be one of the greatest living authorities on Mormonism." Considered by whom? Anti-Mormons? Being an "expert" on only one side of an issue doesn't make one an "authority." Dr. Jan Shipps, a non-Mormon professor at Indiana University At Indianapolis is a much more believable "expert." Her book entitled Mormonism, A New Religious Tradition is acclaimed as an objective alternative to Tanner's polemic tome.
19. Mrs. Tanner says Utah (67% LDS) has a higher rate of divorce and suicide than the national average. Teen suicide is supposedly much higher than nationally. "This is partly due to the fact the Mormons emphasize perfection," she says. (For more details on the questionable statistics, see #44 below)
Is it un-Christian to strive for perfection? Was it not Christ himself who said "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in Heaven is perfect"? (Matt.5:48) And though we, like Paul, have not "already attained" perfection, but "follow after" as we "press toward the mark" (Philip 3:12), is not the purpose of the church "for the perfecting of the saints" (Eph. 4:12)?
A truly heart-rending and tragic case is presented of 16-year old Kip Eliason who committed suicide in 1982. When he approached LDS counselors regarding his "sexual feelings that were in direct conflict with the teachings of the Church," they lovingly reinforced those teachings and standards. This is implied to have led to the boy's death, and therefore is supposedly another proof that the LDS Church is not Christian.
Ironically, an almost identical case of a teen's suicide after receiving counseling from a religious leader has led to a landmark lawsuit filed by the second boy's parents. Except in this case the defendant is not a Mormon but a leading figure in the Evangelical Christian community who is also an ardent supporter of "The Godmakers." Did not Jesus say that we should cast out the beam in our own eye before worrying about the mote in the eye of our neighbor? Clearly, this kind of tragedy can happen in any church. Such exploitation of the Eliason family's grief by the filmmakers is unforgivable!
20. Ed Decker charges that The Book of Mormon calls the "Christian body" the "whore of Babylon." Actually two churches are mentioned in 1 Nephi 14:10--the "church of the Lamb of God" and the "church of the devil." It is the latter which is described as "whore of all the earth." However this church is further described in 1 Nephi 22:23 as actually a collection of "all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world."..etc. Only those churches which fit this description need worry (and according to the complaints of many Christians, there unfortunately seems to be quite a few of them).
21. Ed Decker also charges in the film that the LDS temple ceremony "mocks the Christian pastor and calls him a hireling of Satan." The depicting of a nameless clergyman in the temple instruction is simply a teaching device where he recites the traditional creeds regarding the nature of God, which we believe to be in error. No disrespect or "mocking" of any Christian pastor or any denomination is intended. In fact, the minister's integrity is demonstrated when he repents and changes his ways after he learns the truth from the apostles Peter, James, and John. (Note: Recent changes in the temple films have deleted the above altogether.)
22. The film's narrator states that: "Mormons are instructed to use Christian terminology when talking to potential converts. Words such as 'God', 'Jesus', and 'salvation' all have different Mormon meanings which the outsider may not be aware of..."
LDS members use no different terminology when talking to non-LDS than when talking to each other. The sort of sinister deception that is implied simply does not exist. Any deviation from the Biblical usage and definition of the above words lies with the film's authors, not with the Latter-day Saints.
23. Reference is made to "nine versions" told of Joseph Smith's First Vision, "each of which contradicts the other." These "unpublished" accounts are supposedly "deliberately kept from you by Mormon leaders" to conceal the truth. As a point of fact, the different versions were published in a feature article by James B. Allen in the official LDS church magazine The Improvement Era (April 1970) with the express approval of the "Mormon leaders," for all to see. An in-depth article on this subject by Dean Jesse was also published in BYU Studies (Spring 1969).
A careful comparison will show that there is no more "contradiction" among the accounts than one will find in comparing the four descriptions of the life of Jesus found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. In each case, different aspects of the events were emphasized or highlighted according to the needs of the intended audience at the time of the writing.
Similarly in Acts 9,22,&26 we find three different accounts of Saul's "first vision," with discrepancies as to who fell down and whether those with Saul saw the light or heard the voice, etc. Yet both Saul's and Joseph's visions did take place. (They are actually quite similar.)
24. The film points out that there have been many changes in the LDS scriptures in their various editions. This is implied to be a fatal flaw. If so, then the rest of Christianity must share the same deficiency considering the thousands of changes made in the Bible in the hundreds of translations and editions that have been printed. Usually changes in LDS scripture have been made to correct typographical or punctuation errors, or to make the text either (1) agree more closely with the earliest editions, (2) seem more grammatically palatable to the modern reader, or (3) express under inspiration a clearer meaning of the original intent. (see #28 below)
25. Statements said to be made by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young regarding the possible inhabitants of the sun and moon were reported from journal entries or from third-hand memory, and are suspect. To imply that those quotes really represent LDS doctrine is another in a long list of distortions in this propaganda film.But the real issue is, can a prophet believe something which is found to be in error by the science of a later age? If the Bible is true, the answer is yes. Leviticus 11 and Deut. 14 list the hare as an animal that chews the cud, which science has disproved. And Gen.30:35--43 says that placing striped sticks in view of mating animals results in striped offspring. ...Moon men? These examples sound equally absurd in light of modern day scientific knowledge. The Rev. J. R. Dummelow in his One Volume Bible Commentary said something about the author of Genesis which could equally be applied to Joseph Smith or Brigham Young: "His scientific knowledge may be bounded by the horizon of the age in which he lived, but the religious truths he teaches are irrefutable and eternal."
26. Decker says: "The true doctrine (of the LDS church) teaches that there is no eternal life without a polygamous relationship." This is blatantly untrue. The church teaches that the highest heavenly rewards are reserved for those who enter the "new and everlasting covenant" of eternal marriage, but they can be married to just one person and receive the same rewards as anyone in a "polygamous relationship."
On polygamy: (the practice of which was officially ended by the LDS church in 1890) --if Joseph Smith seemed reticent to tell his wife Emma about this law of God at first, it is an understandable human foible. (Especially if you knew Emma!) But this no more disqualifies him from the office of prophet than the similar frailties seen in Abraham's lie to Pharaoh about Sara being his sister, or in Moses' boast to the Children of Israel that he would give them water from a rock in the desert. (Num. 20:7--12. His failure to acknowledge God on that occasion kept him out of the Promised Land as punishment, but did not negate his prophetic calling or nullify the scriptures he wrote.)
In addition, it should be noted that these same ancient prophets --and their followers-- also practiced polygamy... with the approval and sanction of God.
27. Sandra Tanner charges that LDS church historical records are hidden from the members in some sort of dark cover-up. Obviously the rare and valuable documents must be protected from public access, just like the closed stacks in many libraries and museums. Nor would the Church see the need to admit a known anti-Mormon like Mrs. Tanner.
Incidentally, Mrs. Tanner and her husband have made a substantial business of publishing those same LDS church historical records that are supposedly "hidden." They must not be too hard to get hold of!
28. Decker says that Christian scholars are "always refining" the scriptures in the quest to "improve and validate the authenticity of the Holy Scripture." Then he says, "In Mormonism it's completely opposite." And yet when LDS efforts are made to "refine" scripture, resulting in changes, he decries these changes as proof of the non-validity of LDS scriptures. (see #24 above)
29. Dr. Charles Crane is presented as an "expert on Mormon archaeology." He is actually a Church of Christ minister with advanced degrees in "Ministry," "Divinity" and Psychology, (not archaeology) who in correspondence with me says he has "sought to study the archaeology of The Book of Mormon." He revealed no details on the extent of his study, so I must question his "expert" status.
30. Both Crane and Tanner claim that because the cities of The Book of Mormon are not found on modern maps, "there is no evidence for the book, any yet it's supposed to be a historical record." Dr. Richard Fales ("author, lecturer, archaeologist"-- what are his credentials?) says "not one single artifact has been found that even remotely relates to the (Book of Mormon) civilizations." He calls the book a "fairy tale."
Originally posted by Regret
Rofl. If the Bible is true, then why have Christians changed it?Do eclipses have the same effect in all areas of the earth? No.
This verse does not limit those who hold the Aaronic priesthood only those that will burn the incense.
Finally, read the verse prior in Hebrews:
God can do as he will. I don't question if things are different, the Bible testifies of change, not of static state religion.
Lol, 2 Nephi uses the term "people", it does not limit the number of "people".
There are proper methods for the practice, and improper methods. Sex is good, yet the Bible says you shouldn't have sex with your neighbor's wife. Why does the Bible speak against sex when it previously states that man should reproduce?
Lol, Christ quotes books which are not present in the current Bible due to various compilers believing that they were unnecessary, or not of value, was he in error because later people corrected it?
***Regret:
You are a very old man and I fear that dementia is setting in. A check up with your physician is in order...since you do not want to go to the Great Physician for the cure for your SIN problem.
Marchello
Anyone who rolls their eyes at the christian bible, but upholds teh Book of mormon, needs to examine their subjective purpose.
what is that, like a Roman telling the Greek his reliion is "silly".
Both sides of the argument need to wake the **** up. You're all delusional.
Mmmmmm...this koolaid is GRRRRRREAT!.