Is Superman the ultimate Superhero?

Originally posted by brainchild81
Fame wise? No. Character-wise you could have said this & you'd have been right. Spidey admires the guy. Supes is famous because he's one of the 1st. He's not really that great of a character @ the end of the day. All of the characters put ahead of him are better & probably some of those who weren't.

Captain America is basicly Superman without super powers. If He lived in the MARVEL Universe Spider-Man would be drooling all over him.

Spider-Man is just a kid figuring out what means to be a man while Superman is already man. That's the point that's the reason Peter Parker is seen as more interesting than Clark Kent. That's why you find Smallville so interesting cause there is Clark Kent doing the same Peter Parker has been doing since that radioactive spider bit him. Figuring out how to be a man.

well put

Originally posted by Francisco
Captain America is basicly Superman without super powers. If He lived in the MARVEL Universe Spider-Man would be drooling all over him.

Spider-Man is just a kid figuring out what means to be a man while Superman is already man. That's the point that's the reason Peter Parker is seen as more interesting than Clark Kent. That's why you find Smallville so interesting cause there is Clark Kent doing the same Peter Parker has been doing since that radioactive spider bit him. Figuring out how to be a man.

Originally posted by brainchild81
You're talking about Spidey inhis younger days. & yes he is more interesting than Clark. Waaaaaaaaay more. You're spot on 'bout Smallville though. Cap's a soldier and he breaks people's necks. He's one of the few people worthy enough to pick up Mjolnir. Supes ain't & Spidey'd likely end up admiring Batman more for the same reasons he likes Cap. They don't need to be ultrapowerful to get the job done.

Peter Parker is now just like he was when the spider first bit him. He's still acting like a reckless kid. He keeps making the same half assed desitions that got uncle Ben killed.

Superman has lifted Mjolnir! JLA/AVENGERS Anyone? Superman holds the same moral principals and ethics of Captain America and all the heroes look up to him. The difference is that Capt America is less powerfull so he has to kill more often to stop criminals. Superman respects life but he has shown time and again that when the chips are down he doens't shy away from killing. He is the most revered hero in the DC universe. When the world the universe itslef is endangered everyone turns his eyes to Superman not Batman. Get over yourself. Stop hating! And be a man.

Peter Parker is interesting to guys like you because he has a disfunctional personality and Batman as well. In the other hand Superman is an assertive man. When he has a problem he talks about it. Superman is not about doing the same mistakes over and over or hiding his feelings from Lois just for the readers to think that he's so cool and misterious. In few words: Superman behaves like a grow man while Spider-Man and Batman behave like teenagers who can't handle their feelings and emotions.

Originally posted by MattDay
it's more of a nostalgia of him wearing his glasses and changing his hairstyle makes him seem different to fool lois and co, but it was more of a symbol of him disguising himself as a human... weak, seemigly cant stand up for himself, then he's superman, which was really him... it's weird in a way, because others like spiderman were normal people then they put on their hero disguise, it's the other way around for superman, its him.

Superman's disguise works becuase everyone knows Superman but few know Clark Kent. The average guy on the street would never think that someone like Superman would have a double identity seen how he just not wear a mask. Beside the entire disguise is much more than him donning a pair of glasses. It is his whole demeanor. Clark is a great actor.

Originally posted by brainchild81
The Spideyfilms and Batman Begins are lightyears ahead of Supes Returns. Batman did drag @ times and the fight scenes were shot by crackheads, but SR just seemed like it was 4 hours long. It'd be alot more exciting if Supes fought somebody that could physically f**k w/him a bit. Supes/Lex is done to death & they took a lame costume and made it worse by having the "S" and briefs too small. Supes Returns is crap compared to the Spidey films. But in the end you're right about it being debatable

If I can agree with you on something is that I didn't like Superman Returns and non of the other movies with the exception of the first one. My problem with those movies is that they made Superman a wuss. He did a couple of things that were not Supermanlike at all.

Good post. I liked the 1st one the 1st time I saw it. Not so much now though

Originally posted by Francisco
Peter Parker is now just like he was when the spider first bit him. He's still acting like a reckless kid. He keeps making the same half assed desitions that got uncle Ben killed.

Originally posted by Francisco
Superman has lifted Mjolnir! JLA/AVENGERS Anyone?

Originally posted by Francisco
Superman holds the same moral principals and ethics of Captain America and all the heroes look up to him. The difference is that Capt America is less powerfull so he has to kill more often to stop criminals. Superman respects life but he has shown time and again that when the chips are down he doens't shy away from killing. He is the most revered hero in the DC universe. When the world the universe itslef is endangered everyone turns his eyes to Superman not Batman. Get over yourself. Stop hating! And be a man.

Originally posted by Francisco
Peter Parker is interesting to guys like you because he has a disfunctional personality and Batman as well. In the other hand Superman is an assertive man. When he has a problem he talks about it. Superman is not about doing the same mistakes over and over or hiding his feelings from Lois just for the readers to think that he's so cool and misterious. In few words: Superman behaves like a grow man while Spider-Man and Batman behave like teenagers who can't handle their feelings and emotions.

Originally posted by brainchild81
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You must have missed the "worthy" part. Read the whole thing. He tries to lift it later on and can't budge it. Thor tells him that sometimes the gods give the unworthy(Supes) a pass when they need to & that he's got Supes #the next time they fight. Cap = Worthy. Bats might even be. Supes is definately not. Thanx for proving me right.

"My Father is stern Superman but not STUPID. A very FEW WORTHIES have been allowed to overcome the Spell in desperate Hours." Means he belongs to those worthy enough to wield the Hammer. No word of Unworthy, if you don't remeber somthing very well don't pretend you do. Say something like IIRC or so it helps 😉.

So the rules of this crossover are clear, Superman is worthy, though only allowed to wield the Hammer in desperate hours.

Sh*t! I was about to ask you what IIRC means but I just figured it out. I thought worthies were always able to lift it?

Originally posted by brainchild81
Sh*t! I was about to ask you what IIRC means but I just figured it out. I thought worthies were always able to lift it?

I thought that too but Thor wouldn't lie, I guess it depends more on Odin then on anything else. If you are worthy and Odin "likes" you or if there is a great crisis then you can lift it. If you are unworthy you simply can't, if you are worthy and Odin dislikes you (because you won against his son) or if there is no crisi at all you can't too.

On a side note I'm sure that a second brawl between the two, if they had made a second one in the JLA/Avengers crossover, would go to Thor. Both are so evenly matched 5/10, not more not less 😉.

And for the Superheroebashing, I like Spider-Man, my first Spiderman comic was the one with Captain America against Electro. Sometimes a bad writer may give Peter an immature touch, or Clark an arrogant one, this doesn't make the Heroe bad as it is simply bad writing and not true to the char IMHO (in my honest opinion 😉.).

I also think that no Character (Superheroe/Villain) is better or superior to another. We may argue about it, for entertainments sake, or to "discuss" with each other for fun BUT the char you like will always be the number one to you, and this is what matters. If no one else likes him, fine, if most others like him, fine too, but does this really has some inluence on your view of him? We have our reasons why one char is more appealing for us then another, it would be "bad" if we all liked only one.
So let's talk, let's mock each other but if you have the feeling that there may be some bad feelings, one should stop, relax and say hey it's just fun pal 😉.

I don't mean that you were rude or something, I have just sometimes the need to explain myself because english isn't my native language (I have still alot to learn) 🙂.

Originally posted by FistOfThe North
I think he is..I Know he is.

Why yes! Yes he is!

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
I thought that too but Thor wouldn't lie, I guess it depends more on Odin then on anything else. If you are worthy and Odin "likes" you or if there is a great crisis then you can lift it. If you are unworthy you simply can't, if you are worthy and Odin dislikes you (because you won against his son) or if there is no crisi at all you can't too.

On a side note I'm sure that a second brawl between the two, if they had made a second one in the JLA/Avengers crossover, would go to Thor. Both are so evenly matched 5/10, not more not less 😉.

And for the Superheroebashing, I like Spider-Man, my first Spiderman comic was the one with Captain America against Electro. Sometimes a bad writer may give Peter an immature touch, or Clark an arrogant one, this doesn't make the Heroe bad as it is simply bad writing and not true to the char IMHO (in my honest opinion 😉.).

I also think that no Character (Superheroe/Villain) is better or superior to another. We may argue about it, for entertainments sake, or to "discuss" with each other for fun BUT the char you like will always be the number one to you, and this is what matters. If no one else likes him, fine, if most others like him, fine too, but does this really has some inluence on your view of him? We have our reasons why one char is more appealing for us then another, it would be "bad" if we all liked only one.
So let's talk, let's mock each other but if you have the feeling that there may be some bad feelings, one should stop, relax and say hey it's just fun pal 😉.

I don't mean that you were rude or something, I have just sometimes the need to explain myself because english isn't my native language (I have still alot to learn) 🙂.

I agree with you too Batman-prime.

But come on Brainchild why would A GUY like Superman NOT be worthy of lifting Mjolnir? That wouldn't make sense at all.

Superman gets the chance to shine so often simply because he is the ultimate hero. 😄 Deal with it. 😎
You hate him for it but what about Batman going hand to hand with Aquaman and beating him up? Or Captain America downing the Rhino? I bet you think they are cool for doing so.

Superman has the moral fibre, the courage, the spirit and the power all in a perfect balance that makes him the greatest hero in fiction. When he is written properly it is something great to watch. 🙂 Sadly few writers get him right. 🙁

Superman the ultimate hero?

Not a chance.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Superman the ultimate hero?

Not a chance.

That's because you don't like him! You should add "in my opinion" or at least give some logical reasons.

Originally posted by The Libertine
That's because you don't like him! You should add "in my opinion" or at least give some logical reasons.

Case and point. All answers to this are in the opinion of the poster.

I like a flawed hero not a Mary Sue like Superman. Superman's powers are cliche (yes I know he set the standard for it but they're still cliche). The line between good and evil tends to be pretty obvious in Superman stories which is not particularly interesting to me.

I'd go on but I've made my point.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Case and point. All answers to this are in the opinion of the poster.

I like a flawed hero not a Mary Sue like Superman. Superman's powers are cliche (yes I know he set the standard for it but they're still cliche). The line between good and evil tends to be pretty obvious in Superman stories which is not particularly interesting to me.

I'd go on but I've made my point.

You really haven't, you've voiced an opinion. One which in my opinion contradicts itself on several levels. I think the line between good and evil is clear in most mainstream comics. It's only when you get to things like the Nazz, Miracleman, Kingdom Come (which starred Superman), Watchmen etc. It becomes less distinct.

I actually don't think you've read much Superman recently.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
So the rules of this crossover are clear, Superman is worthy, though only allowed to wield the Hammer in desperate hours.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Case and point. All answers to this are in the opinion of the poster.

I like a flawed hero not a Mary Sue like Superman. Superman's powers are cliche (yes I know he set the standard for it but they're still cliche). The line between good and evil tends to be pretty obvious in Superman stories which is not particularly interesting to me.

I'd go on but I've made my point.

Originally posted by Francisco
I agree with you too Batman-prime.

But come on Brainchild why would A GUY like Superman NOT be worthy of lifting Mjolnir? That wouldn't make sense at all.

Superman gets the chance to shine so often simply because he is the ultimate hero. 😄 Deal with it. 😎
You hate him for it but what about Batman going hand to hand with Aquaman and beating him up? Or Captain America downing the Rhino? I bet you think they are cool for doing so.

Originally posted by Francisco
Superman has the moral fibre, the courage, the spirit and the power all in a perfect balance that makes him the greatest hero in fiction. When he is written properly it is something great to watch. 🙂 Sadly few writers get him right. 🙁

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Case and point. All answers to this are in the opinion of the poster.

I like a flawed hero not a Mary Sue like Superman. Superman's powers are cliche (yes I know he set the standard for it but they're still cliche). The line between good and evil tends to be pretty obvious in Superman stories which is not particularly interesting to me.

I'd go on but I've made my point.

Cliche? Man, he's the original one. He came first. Way before Spider-Man and all the other super-hores who "copied" his set of powers.

About the Mary Sue statement, man, you need to read more Superman cause you're talking about silver age Superman not the current guy. By the way the line between good and evil its obvious most of the time it is just that our flawed morality makes hard for us to make stand.

Brainchild the drama when you can survive a nuclear explosion is that your loved ones can't do the same.

Superman outshines all those guys simply because he's better than them. That's the way he was created. He was created to be the ultimate superhero with the ultimate set of morals and power. Yet he's not perfect but close to it. IMO. He could be a god but he rather lives like a normal guy. As a matter of fact if he wanted he could become the king of the world a few would be able to do something about. But that's not him. He is among us to protect us and make the world a better place. That's the reason in my book he is the Ultimate.