Is Superman the ultimate Superhero?

Originally posted by Francisco
Cliche? Man, he's the original one. He came first. Way before Spider-Man and all the other super-hores who "copied" his set of powers.

Hercules, Gilgamesh, Achilles, Ajax, Jesus various other demigods all had similar powers and came first.

Originally posted by Francisco
About the Mary Sue statement, man, you need to read more Superman cause you're talking about silver age Superman not the current guy. By the way the line between good and evil its obvious most of the time it is just that our flawed morality makes hard for us to make stand.

Read Death Note or Full Metal Alchemist or Monster and then try to honestly say that Superman is even close to the protagonists of those in terms of being morally complex, imperfect hero.

Originally posted by Francisco
Brainchild the drama when you can survive a nuclear explosion is that your loved ones can't do the same.

OK

Originally posted by Francisco
Superman outshines all those guys simply because he's better than them. That's the way he was created. He was created to be the ultimate superhero with the ultimate set of morals and power. Yet he's not perfect but close to it. IMO. He could be a god but he rather lives like a normal guy. As a matter of fact if he wanted he could become the king of the world a few would be able to do something about. But that's not him. He is among us to protect us and make the world a better place. That's the reason in my book he is the Ultimate.

This is, as has been pointed out, all opinion.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hercules, Gilgamesh, Achilles, Ajax, Jesus various other demigods all had similar powers and came first.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Read Death Note or Full Metal Alchemist or Monster and then try to honestly say that Superman is even close to the protagonists of those in terms of being morally complex, imperfect hero.[/B]

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

This is, as has been pointed out, all opinion. [/B]

Originally posted by Francisco
Those guys above are not comic characters they are Mythical/religous. By the way Hercules couldn't fly nor Achilles, Ajax and Gilgamesh.

Neither could Supes until Capt. Marvel easily surpassed him in popularity(because he's also better) and Supes was upgraded in an attempt to keep up. Still, the powers weren't invented by Supes. He copied from those Chaos mentioned. Supes wasn't the 1st to have the powers, he was just the 1st to copy from these myths. These other heroes (Spidey, Bats, Cap & anybody else who placed better than Supes did) do the right thing even when there's a good chance the bad guy they're fighting can kick their ass to death. These guys can't survive a nuke nor can the use Superspeed to get their family out of the blast radius. Everything's more important and the danger more grave w/these guys. When you got all the powers in the world you don't really need to be all that brave. Supes never comes 1st when they make these kinds of lists for a reason. He just ain't good enough for the #1 spot. That's reserved for the

You like Captain Marvel more despite him essentially being a blander Superman with more black and white morals?

I imagine the charm of Marvel related to him being a boy given great power. Every kid wishes they could say Shazam and be an not just an adult but a Superhero. Which is similar to Spiderman. He's alot easier for comic readers to relate to a nerdy Peter Parker.

I argue that Superman is a different kind of story. It's about fantastic adventures on Earth and in the far reaches of space. I like Superman because he decided to become a Superhero not out of guilt but because he believes its the right thing to do.

Read Death Note or Full Metal Alchemist or Monster and then try to honestly say that Superman is even close to the protagonists of those in terms of being morally complex, imperfect hero

Ed never did anything Superman wouldn't of been tempted to do in as similar situation. Replace Al with Lois and Superman would go very dark very quickly.

I like Anime heroes like that to death, but I tend to prefer more heroic ones. While guys like Guy Shishio and Domon Kashew have likely never had though that wasn't full of Courage they're great fun to watch.

Superman is the ultimate hero. He's an ideal to to aim for, that's what makes him so iconic. No one could be as good as him but if everyone tried the world would be so much better. Even the most militant Superman hater has to admit that.

Originally posted by brainchild81
Neither could Supes until Capt. Marvel easily surpassed him in popularity(because he's also better🙂) and Supes was upgraded in an attempt to keep up. Still, the powers weren't invented by Supes. He copied from those Chaos mentioned. Supes wasn't the 1st to have the powers, he was just the 1st to copy from these myths. These other heroes (Spidey, Bats, Cap & anybody else who placed better than Supes did) do the right thing even when there's a good chance the bad guy they're fighting can kick their ass to death. These guys can't survive a nuke nor can the use Superspeed to get their family out of the blast radius. Everything's more important and the danger more grave w/these guys. When you got all the powers in the world you don't really need to be all that brave. Supes never comes 1st when they make these kinds of lists for a reason. He just ain't good enough for the #1 spot. That's reserved for the guy who does whatever a spider can until further notice mane🙂 He was even on Maxim's lamest heroes list IIRC. Just be happy he's on the list. Top 5 is very respectable.

You're just blinded by your hate. Superman does fight people who can kill him. Darkseid anyone? He's got beaten to near death and he has kept going on out of sheer fighting spirit. Remember Doomsday? You want to make seem like Superman is just some wuss with super-powers. Try harder boy!! Spider-Man is just a kid bitten by a "radioactive"🙄 spider, while Superman is the champion of truth justice and all that stuff. 😎 Hell Spider-kid became a superhero out of guit. Superman did it because he felt it was the right thing to do. That's what makes him the Ultimate Superhero.

PS: Wizard's list was not about superheroes but comic characters! Hell they even had Magneto on it and the guy has killed lots of people for no other reason that they were not mutants.

by the way only bad writers would think on killing Superman. Good writers like Mark Waid usually have a good time writing Superman. Good writers know how to write Superman.

Originally posted by Francisco
I thought we were talking about comics. Those guys above are not comic characters they are Mythical/religous. By the way Hercules couldn't fly nor Achilles, Ajax and Gilgamesh. Jesus walked on water though.

They are the source for Supes' powers and personality

Originally posted by Francisco
You're confusing moral complexity with moral disfunctionality.

Not really.

Originally posted by Francisco
Opinion which I stand for.

👆

Originally posted by Galvaclaw

Ed never did anything Superman wouldn't of been tempted to do in as similar situation. Replace Al with Lois and Superman would go very dark very quickly.

True . . .

But Raito in DeathNote went on an insane killing spree and IIRC Tenma is obsesed with killing Johan and can't come to grips with his failures.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
You like Captain Marvel more despite him essentially being a blander Superman with more black and white morals?
Superman is the ultimate hero. He's an ideal to to aim for, that's what makes him so iconic. No one could be as good as him but if everyone tried the world would be so much better. Even the most militant Superman hater has to admit that.

Originally posted by Francisco
You're just blinded by your hate. Superman does fight people who can kill him. Darkseid anyone? He's got beaten to near death and he has kept going on out of sheer fighting spirit. Remember Doomsday? You want to make seem like Superman is just some wuss with super-powers. Try harder boy!! Spider-Man is just a kid bitten by a "radioactive"🙄 spider, while Superman is the champion of truth justice and all that stuff. 😎 Hell Spider-kid became a superhero out of guit. Superman did it because he felt it was the right thing to do. That's what makes him the Ultimate Superhero.

PS: Wizard's list was not about superheroes but comic characters! Hell they even had Magneto on it and the guy has killed lots of people for no other reason that they were not mutants.

True. He's a good person but almost all heroes are. If we all tried to be like Cap the same would apply. Cap'n M has a far better disguise than Supes. The Cap'n M you see now is merely the one DC makes w/the intention of never letting him be MORE popular than Supes again

I always love this claim from Captain Marvel fans. His lack of popularity is a cunning scheme by DC. Its not like they want to make money anything. If there was a big enough fanbase for him he'd have a monthly but he doesn't.

True . . .

But Raito in DeathNote went on an insane killing spree and IIRC Tenma is obsesed with killing Johan and can't come to grips with his failures

Being an anti hero doesn't automatically make you more interesting or more complex.

Originally posted by brainchild81
True. He's a good person but almost all heroes are. If we all tried to be like Cap the same would apply. Cap'n M has a far better disguise than Supes. The Cap'n M you see now is merely the one DC makes w/the intention of never letting him be MORE popular than Supes again

Originally posted by brainchild81
He's a more interesting character than Supes. Bravo had an Ultimate hero show & Spidey took 1st again(Simply the best. Better than ALL the rest🙂). Supes was lucky enough to get #2 instead of Bats. Darkseid's a wuss nowadays. DDs pretty tough. Point still stands though. When you're as powerful as Supes it's not that hard to be brave. [/B]

Error been as powerful as Supes isn't that hard to go crazy and put oneself as the king of the world. It requires a lot of self control to be as powerful as SUPERMAN is. It requires an special kind of people to become a hero instead of a bully. That's the reason Superman is the ultimate Superhero while Spider-Man is the guy who let his uncle die. 😂

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Being an anti hero doesn't automatically make you more interesting or more complex.

You haven't read DeathNote have you?

Raito is far more complex than Superman. As is Tenma in Monster (hell his enemy is more complex than Superman).

Its not because the person is an antihero its becuase the y happen to be more complex and more interesting.

Super man is a GOD, hes the greatest EVER, and he would destroy batman in a fight any day!!! 😠 😠

superman is a GOD

Superman has one of the best origin stories, because there's so many ??? around it, plus his character to stay truthful, and protect the world instead of taking it over as easy as he can.

Originally posted by Francisco
...while Spider-Man is the guy who let his uncle die. 😂

Ouch. 😂

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
I always love this claim from Captain Marvel fans. His lack of popularity is a cunning scheme by DC. Its not like they want to make money anything. If there was a big enough fanbase for him he'd have a monthly but he doesn't.

Originally posted by Francisco
Yeah, right. 🙄 Keep hanging on that. Maybe some day it would be true.

Originally posted by Francisco
Error been as powerful as Supes isn't that hard to go crazy and put oneself as the king of the world. It requires a lot of self control to be as powerful as SUPERMAN is. It requires an special kind of people to become a hero instead of a bully. That's the reason Superman is the ultimate Superhero while Spider-Man is the guy who let his uncle die. 😂

I think Supes is a more interesting character than Spiderman. Not everybody will agree with me, but who cares.

I think that both are equally interesting. At first I was a Superman/Batman fan, later I read everything I could get from Spiderman and X-Men, even Cap America or the Avengers, however this changed again and I'm now with DC. Both companies have great chars, with a lot of potential and depth (All-Star-Superman, or Spiderman durng his Black Costume time), some writers are bad enough to destroy these so you have to be careful what you read.
For example I don't like IC nor Civil Wars, kills a lot of good old comic history and established char personality.

Read up on him. DC got Cap Marvel after winning a lawsuit. Capt. Marvel had begun seriously outselling Supes so DC sued them because they couldn't tolerate a similar character being more popular. After DC got him they put him out of the spotlight so Supes could be more popular again. Supes got the ability to fly and the bald villain thing from Cap Marvel. If it wasn't for that lawsuit this thread would be titled "Is Captain Marvel the Ultimate Superhero?" & Yes, Transforming to a totally different age, build & height beats taking your glasses off & doing a lil' w/your hair any day of the week. When Supes had a mullet didn't Clark also? Metropolis must be full of idiots

I'm fully aware of the lawsuit. Again you allege that Captain Marvel's vast lack of success in comics currently is because of DC bringing him down on purpose. Captain Marvel comics just don't sell now. DC has continually thrown Capitan Marvel mini series at us. He's like the martian manhunter he'll never be that popular again. DC is a business if it was possible to make money from Marvel they'd squeeze him for everything he's worth.

Flight and Lex's baldness occurred independently from Captain Marvel. The flight came from how Superman's jumping was shown in the cartoon and further expanded on by the radio play. Lex being bald is an artistic error that stuck.

Spidey could have been a criminal and started beating up on regular people. SSurfer is MORE powerful than Supes and is a hero instead of a villain so the morals are pretty much universal. It's still harder to be brave when you have less power mane.

Both Surfer and Spidey are motivated by guilt. Also by your logic then Moon Night of Green Arrow must be greater heroes than Spiderman.

I though that the original Superman script from 1933 had an Evil Superman created by an bald mad scientist...

I don't understand.

How could anyone compare Superman to Spiderman?

I do consider Spiderman a superhero and probably the one of the many superheroes whom has more enemies than probably anyone else does. But when it comes down to capabilities. Supes just over-owns dead hard.

- Supes can save more people and secre more areas in a day than Spidey can in a week.

- Supes abilities far over-surpass any of Spideys. Superman can over-do anything Spiderman can especially and specifically do.

- Supes is way, way stronger than Spiderman is. (Spidey/10 tons - Supes/10 times that or more)

- He's more of a leader and seems way more dedicated to justice.

- Superman is a global, universal superhero while Spiderman is just a local superhero. He is, afterall, your friendly "neighborhood" Spiderman.

And something about Supes dedication to crimefighting that's almost unmatched in the comic book world. It seems as if he has some sort of obsession with saving humankind. With my take, it seems as if he looks at Earth as Krypton (since it's his home like Krypton was for the short time it was) and made a quiet self-promise to make sure planetary interuptions or destruction never happens again, while under his watch, in memory of his parents and his people.

I dunno. I just sometimes seems like while Superman worries about humankind all around the world, with unparalleled passion, on a daily basis, Spiderman is worrying about being evicted over 3 months worth of back-rent due just before being head-locked by Electro in an alleyway in Manhattan.

I don't understand how could anyone compare Superman to Spiderman?