Current Spectre VS. Team Marvel

Spectre didnt have to absorb magic from Shazam or from the Rock of Eternity, he could have got it from anywhere he wanted, he was just showing off to Shazam how powerful he is.

Capt Marvel was connected with all of the DC Earth magical beings, thats enough for anyone to fight, and Spectre still won. that fight was causing trouble not just in our dimension but in other dimensions as well.

this is not a Spectre with a human host who might bring his powers down, this is Vengeance at its worst, the only thing that could stop him at this point is if The Word limits his powers, which isn't really happening rit now or that we can see.

Originally posted by Beyonder
That doesn't explain anything. If he's that powerful, you put beings on his level to fight him and the pages will last more than just one. Lucifer, Michael, the Endless.

But he's not. Hence he's been fighting beings from skyfather level down.

Originally posted by Beyonder

And how do you explain this? What happened to showmanship? If anything, he would have wiped out Shazam in a confrontation then struggle in a battle with Imps. Shazam isn't even on Mxy's level.

Originally posted by Beyonder

Your not explaining anything. Imps are far above Shazam. Shazam gave Spectre a fight. But Imps can't beat Spectre? Heck, Imps aren't even magic, just from a higher plane. Regular Spectre was trapped by Emporer Joker.

Once again, Imps have given Spectre trouble before, BUT...this is an insane spectre. He's taken their source of power...they are powerless against him.

Originally posted by Beyonder

Either the Imps are below Shazam in this depiction or those writters are smoking anthrax.

Nope. You just haven't been keeping up. Just because you don't agree with something, doesn't mean that its wrong.

Kevdude does a good job explaining this, so it saves me time. Thanks.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind

Shazam lost, in his place of power and using every trick in his book, and this was after spectre being rogue for quite a while. Spectre could have done it instantly, but who wants a 1 page comic? Hell, he even takes time to listen to the wizard before confronting him.

Wasn't Shazam already in a weakened state from fighting someone else? Didn't Shazam predict his own defeat before Spectre even got there?

He did one spell on Mordru before Spectre got there, and he wasn't weak because of that encounter though, all DC magic users are weak right now because of Spectre taking it. Even Mordru claimed that "every spell feels like a mountain", and Mr Mxyz was powerless when we saw him in Superman.

But then he did claim that he picked that battleground because it was his place of power and that he could draw from all the artifacts around him, so he was indeed not quite as limited as one would think, but still yes he did predict his defeat as should anyone facing The Spectre.

And about Captain Marvel throwing down with Spectre, it wasn't just DC Earth[which combined is easily Skyfather level, or do you realise how MUCH magic there is on DC Earth?] if you read it again, he was drawing upon Gods and I believe a pantheon or two as well. And then it went onto pretty much every being on Earth totally was giving him power, and then captions were reading as if it went even beyond that.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
[B]And the Vishanti compare to these beings? Don't see a point to this one...

? You missed the point. If Spectre is that powerful, he should be fighting guys like Lucifer, Mxy, Michael, or the Endless and this would last MORE THAN 1 page. Yet he spends time fighting Captain Marvel and Shazam?

Shazam lost, in his place of power and using every trick in his book, and this was after spectre being rogue for quite a while. Spectre could have done it instantly, but who wants a 1 page comic? Hell, he even takes time to listen to the wizard before confronting him.

No. You can easily avoid 1 page by putting him up against Mxy, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless. Yet he fights several pages against Shazam?

Even in his place of power, you can't compare Shazam to Agamatto because this fight is in Agamotto's realm as well.

Once again, Imps have given Spectre trouble before, BUT...this is an insane spectre. He's taken their source of power...they are powerless against him.

Once again, Spectre was caged by Emperor Joker.

Juntai He did one spell on Mordru before Spectre got there, and he wasn't weak because of that encounter though, all DC magic users are weak right now because of Spectre taking it. Even Mordru claimed that "every spell feels like a mountain", and Mr Mxyz was powerless when we saw him in Superman.

Spectre did it by small groups and inviduals. It wasn't like he fought all the Lords of Chaos and Order together along with the Mxy. And since when does Imps really use magic? He had trouble with Shazam and Marvel but takes out the Imps? Does that make sense to you?

But then he did claim that he picked that battleground because it was his place of power and that he could draw from all the artifacts around him, so he was indeed not quite as limited as one would think, but still yes he did predict his defeat as should anyone facing The Spectre.

So Shazam = Phoenix and Rune Thor?
Or Shazam = Agamotto, Oshtur, and Hoggoth?

And about Captain Marvel throwing down with Spectre, it wasn't just DC Earth[which combined is easily Skyfather level, or do you realise how MUCH magic there is on DC Earth?] if you read it again, he was drawing upon Gods and I believe a pantheon or two as well. And then it went onto pretty much every being on Earth totally was giving him power, and then captions were reading as if it went even beyond that.

You do realise that 23 skyfathers helped make the Destroyer and all every Asgardian was powering up, yet the Celestial stomped it? It couldn't harm anyone of the Celestials. The Uni-Mind got totaled by a shot from a Celestial, killing Zuras.

Moreover, Strange was easily caged by Agamotto. He needed for Galactus to save his butt and even then the fighting only stopped because Hoggoth and Oshtur asked Agamotto to.

Your talking about Agamotto in his realm, plus his equals Hoggoth & Oshtur, Phoenix, Rune Thor, and Strange all attacking Spectre.

This is Spectre (rogue).... with full powered he will be able to take down just anybody except Presence Himself. Rogue Spectre having trouble with Shazam and Marvel will be taken down in 10 sec by anyone from the marvel team.

the vishanti plus the others should be able to beat the spectre.the 3 vishanti are all way above shazam and In their realm they are truely omnipotent.

The marvel team wins unless spectre really can absorb all their magic.
Which he probably can but it's doubtful since their in the realm of the vishanti.

hey I tried.....................spectre wins..........

But, he's going against magic, why would he need to fight, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless when the plot doesn't support it? Within the first year of Hal as Spectre[Volume 4] he defeated Lucifer. In Spectre storyarc starting in issue 40 Volume 3, Micheal had to come beg Spectre to help him defeat an enemy that was too powerful for him. Then again, he's also been defeated by both of them, when CORRIGAN, the HOST, stepped out of line. Spectre is more powerful, but if it against the will of The Logoz, or The Presence, then the host will find himself short on power. In his own comics, he battles abstracts and beings older and more powerful than the gods, multiversal level stuff.

And Mxy is powerless in DC right now because of Spectre, that's a win, without even trying. Emperor Joker with Myx's powers messed HAL up, not Spectre, the problem was, that Hal was "omnipotent power, but with the scope of a human." He detailed it many times in his series, but eventually overcame the deficiency. Once he was free however, he recreated the universe. Last time he went against an imp in JSA DOV tie in, he shot him with eye beams and it was over.

Spectre, Hostless, as he is right now, means it's -just- the Logoz. Basically, God deciding all kinds of people need to die. That ranks far above everyone else in the thread he's going against.

He's not fighting all the magic gods and users at once, because they're HIDING from him.

Originally posted by Juntai
But, he's going against magic, why would he need to fight, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless when the plot doesn't support it? Within the first year of Hal as Spectre[Volume 4] he defeated Lucifer. In Spectre storyarc starting in issue 40 Volume 3, Micheal had to come beg Spectre to help him defeat an enemy that was too powerful for him. Then again, he's also been defeated by both of them, when CORRIGAN, the HOST, stepped out of line. Spectre is more powerful, but if it against the will of The Logoz, or The Presence, then the host will find himself short on power.

And Mxy is powerless in DC right now because of Spectre, that's a win, without even trying. Emperor Joker with Myx's powers messed HAL up, not Spectre, the problem was, that Hal was "omnipotent power, but with the scope of a human." He detailed it many times in his series, but eventually overcame the deficiency. Once he was free however, he recreated the universe. Last time he went against an imp in JSA DOV tie in, he shot him with eye beams and it was over.

Spectre, Hostless, as he is right now, means it's -just- the Logoz. Basically, God deciding all kinds of people need to die. That ranks far above everyone else in the thread he's going against.

He's not fighting all the magic gods and users at once, because they're HIDING from him.

Preach..........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My bad, that's volume 3, issue 60+, not 40+.

the Spectre (the Wrath) is a part of The Logoz which is a piece of God itself. the Spectre isn't a piece of God The Logoz is the piece of God which The Spectre is connected to The Logoz/The Word, Spectre works as a part of the Logoz wrath. Hal was connected to the Logoz which the Spectre is as well but Hal wanted to be Redemption which is what the Logoz/The Word does, the Wrath/Spectre then can get pushed back (which is very very hard to do) for awhile as we seen Hal do. the reason the Spectre is connected to The Logoz is to calm it down so it won't work the way Eclipso did. Still though The Spectre is about as Vengeful being as anyone could ever be. Spectre is an aspect of Love aka The Word/The Logoz(s).

Spectre still wins!
also where was it ever shown The Spectre defeated Lucifer??? in volume 4?

Beyonder He was caged by emperor joker but it wasn that he could not escape from what i understand it was that he was placed in a place so fragil that if he left he would have destroyed the universe or something like that and thus it wasnt that his powers were nothing it was that the joker outsmarted him.

Originally posted by kevdude
the Spectre (the Wrath) is a part of The Logoz which is a piece of God itself. the Spectre isn't a piece of God The Logoz is the piece of God which The Spectre is connected to The Logoz/The Word, Spectre works as a part of the Logoz wrath. Hal was connected to the Logoz which the Spectre is as well but Hal wanted to be Redemption which is what the Logoz/The Word does, the Wrath/Spectre then can get pushed back (which is very very hard to do) for awhile as we seen Hal do. the reason the Spectre is connected to The Logoz is to calm it down so it won't work the way Eclipso did. Still though The Spectre is about as Vengeful being as anyone could ever be. Spectre is an aspect of Love aka The Word/The Logoz(s).

Spectre still wins!
also where was it ever shown The Spectre defeated Lucifer??? in volume 4?

Originally posted by Juntai
But, he's going against magic, why would he need to fight, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless when the plot doesn't support it? Within the first year of Hal as Spectre[Volume 4] he defeated Lucifer. In Spectre storyarc starting in issue 40 Volume 3, Micheal had to come beg Spectre to help him defeat an enemy that was too powerful for him. Then again, he's also been defeated by both of them, when CORRIGAN, the HOST, stepped out of line. Spectre is more powerful, but if it against the will of The Logoz, or The Presence, then the host will find himself short on power. In his own comics, he battles abstracts and beings older and more powerful than the gods, multiversal level stuff.

And Mxy is powerless in DC right now because of Spectre, that's a win, without even trying. Emperor Joker with Myx's powers messed HAL up, not Spectre, the problem was, that Hal was "omnipotent power, but with the scope of a human." He detailed it many times in his series, but eventually overcame the deficiency. Once he was free however, he recreated the universe. Last time he went against an imp in JSA DOV tie in, he shot him with eye beams and it was over.

Spectre, Hostless, as he is right now, means it's -just- the Logoz. Basically, God deciding all kinds of people need to die. That ranks far above everyone else in the thread he's going against.

He's not fighting all the magic gods and users at once, because they're HIDING from him.

Hey Jun would you be able to tell me the exact issue where Spectre defeats Lucifer and also the one in which Michael asks Spectre for help please.

Nope Hal pierced the veil of The Wrath(Spectre) and revealed The Logoz beneath (giving Spectre his powers). Hal while fighting with Spectre as u can see in those pictures throws Spectre off of him and keeps going deeper then find The Logoz. Spectre says "Perhaps-- the Logoz says She should" it finishes what Spectre was going to say. Spectre is connected to The Logoz which Hal then found beneath Spectre. Spectre is a aspect of The Logoz, so in some ways u are correct. The Presence remade Aztar into a aspect of The Logoz wrath or Gods Wrath the Spectre.

Also during the whole comic in 4 Hal and the Spectre both are using the Logozs power to try to win over each other. that could also be a major reason why Spectre was having trouble bringing Hal over to Vengeance because he wasn't about Vengeance, he was about Redemption, trying to redeem himself which none of the other hosts of Spectre ever did.

Spectre has no business being as high up as Lucifer and Micheal they are in there own class by themselves Spectre can beat them if he is powered by the preseance which to me doesnt even count since he needs the preseance power to do it but with out the power of the preseance i think he'd get owned and he has been shunned like an ant anyway like i said its not that Joker was stronger then Spectre its that he was placed in an area to fragil to escape with out destroying the world he has had trouble with dr fate before yet in these newer spectre battles he killed him did he not and shazam is probably as high as a sky father i mean come on people Mordru and guys lke that are WAY UP THERE when it comes to magic power he to me is probably more powertul or as powerful as Dormammu and Mephesto maybe more.

Originally posted by Beyonder
[B]? You missed the point. If Spectre is that powerful, he should be fighting guys like Lucifer, Mxy, Michael, or the Endless and this would last MORE THAN 1 page. Yet he spends time fighting Captain Marvel and Shazam? /B]

No. I think YOU are missing the point. You are bringing this up because you desperately need an argument to cling to. The story doesn't call for it. It's as ridiculous as bringing up Thanos putting together the infinity gauntlet when there are omnipotent beings with cosmic awareness that should have known better. Why didn't living tribunal stop it.. especially the 2nd time when he went after HOTU?

Originally posted by Beyonder
[B]No. You can easily avoid 1 page by putting him up against Mxy, Lucifer, Michael, or the Endless. Yet he fights several pages against Shazam? /B]

What part of Spectre taking away the Imps powers did you not understand? Why would the endless or Micheal get involved? How many times has the universe been in chaos without any of them showing their face?

Originally posted by Beyonder
[B]Once again, Spectre was caged by Emperor Joker. /B]

You mean when Joker had part of Mxy's power? The same Mxy who is currently a powerless absent minded hobo without any power BECAUSE of spectre? Ruin took him out with a bullet. So much for that theory.

Originally posted by Beyonder
[B]Spectre did it by small groups and inviduals. It wasn't like he fought all the Lords of Chaos and Order together along with the Mxy. And since when does Imps really use magic? He had trouble with Shazam and Marvel but takes out the Imps? Does that make sense to you? /B]

Since when do comics make sense? Thanos had the infinitely gauntlet, yet Spiderman nearly knocks him down. Galactus gets stopped all the time even though he can supposedly level galaxies...etc etc. It's called pacing...and DC has done a fine job of it this year with all their stories tying in nicely.

Seriously, if you and I sat in a room and wrote down all the inconsistencies in comics and got $1 for each one, we'd be rich.

I haven't seen Spectre shutting off Mr. Mxy powers, in what comic did that happen?? I'm sure it did since everyone is talking about it. I'd like to see how he did it, and what mr.mxy said.

Originally posted by kevdude
I haven't seen Spectre shutting off Mr. Mxy powers, in what comic did that happen?? I'm sure it did since everyone is talking about it. I'd like to see how he did it, and what mr.mxy said.

Since you asked so politely sir....

AOS#646 - Damn good story I might add. No fighting..just a different kind of enjoyable Superman tale.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Hey Jun would you be able to tell me the exact issue where Spectre defeats Lucifer and also the one in which Michael asks Spectre for help please.

Then the one for Lucifer, is wierd, because it wasn't full confrontational like a fight, but Spectre kept wrapping him up and doing different things, neither one actually seemed to damage the other, and then in the end it just played out as a talk. -- but Hal was percieving him differently, just as he seemed to percieve everything different than Corrigan did. To Hal, Heaven and Hell and the material world and pretty much creation as a whole are just perceptions rather than locations/people/things. It's hard to explain, but they met for the first time in issue one. Hal's run as Spectre wasn't as a good vs evil as Corrigan was, and definately not as basic as they portray him in a lot of crossovers. It was a mind trip. So it's not neccisarly the Lucifer you're looking for from Lucifer comics, at least in drawing, though they are very similar mentally... and definately the person recognized as king of hell. I believe even had some words about Micheal and The Presence.