Originally posted by Golgo13
Orion has stalemated Superman before and was never overwhelmed.
i know that, but forum fights are different. in a forum battle i think supes COULD overwhelm orion in a couple of fights out of 10 but that most of the fights would come down to more than just speed. in the end it would be about a split imo.
Originally posted by leonidasMajestic has only had to use his speed advantage a few times in battle-- both were against Spartan, iirc. However, that/those instances were sufficient to show us what he is capable of, given that it was literally spelled out to us how fast he was perceiving/reacting(ie. by the nanosecond.) Like I mentioned earlier, he has also perceived/reacted to particles as small as dust motes and photons whilst moving FTL speeds. That's why I keep asking for battle speed feats on Orion's behalf. If he has none, then how is he defending against a character who actually has them? Just because Orion has battled characters with superspeed, doesn't mean they were moving at superspeed in said battles... Unless it was stated, of course.
i get what you're saying, but to me, i guess it would come down to how often maj uses a blitz of the type you're talking about. i don't know him well enough to say. i've been trying to recall a time where orion was flat out overwhelmed by someone's speed and can't really think of one. doesn't mean it hasn't happened though. to me it seems it might go in the same direction as superman/thor. by that i mean there would be a couple fights where speed would prove to be the actual difference maker in the fight, but in general thor could handle or withstand it and other factors would decide the fights. but maybe maj uses his speed more or more effectively than kal does?
And again, if Maj gets the Kusar blades(which ARE standard equipment), Orion's chances at winning plummet even more. With said blades, Maj can cut/block Orion's energy attacks, and/or cut Orion himself in half.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankBeating yourself off isn't much of a feat. ermm
Good points on either side.I think Majestic does have better non-combat feats (ie. moving planets, super speed processing, changing Jupiter's composition, etc), but Orion has the better fights and showings against people with numerous high end feats to their name, namely Superman and Orion.
Originally posted by Galan007
Majestic has only had to use his speed advantage a few times in battle-- both were against Spartan, iirc. However, that/those instances were sufficient to show us what he is capable of, given that it was literally spelled out to us how fast he was perceiving/reacting(ie. by the nanosecond.) Like I mentioned earlier, he has also perceived/reacted to particles as small as dust motes and photons whilst moving FTL speeds. That's why I keep asking for battle speed feats on Orion's behalf. If he has none, then how is he defending against a character who actually has them? Just because Orion has battled characters with superspeed, doesn't mean they were moving at superspeed in said battles... Unless it was stated, of course.And again, if Maj gets the Kusar blades(which ARE standard equipment), Orion's chances at winning plummet even more. With said blades, Maj can cut/block Orion's energy attacks, and/or cut Orion himself in half.
the blades seem like a definite game-changer.
the best battle speed feat i can recall off-hand from orion was this one:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/124477/2406817-af6cad34.jpg
that's a far better speed feat than someone like say thor has imo. but compared to nano-second, i don't think it's very much. imo though the fact that someone has never been overwhelmed by speed should play at least some part in coming to a conclusion. i def think speed would play a factor. i just don't see it being as big a factor as you do. and not as big a factor as these blades of his would be.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Good points on either side.I think Majestic does have better non-combat feats (ie. moving planets, super speed processing, changing Jupiter's composition, etc), but Orion has the better fights and showings against people with numerous high end feats to their name, namely Superman and Orion.
namely superman and ORION? 😑
Originally posted by leonidasYeah, the blades tip the scales much more in his favor, imo, and they are standard gear. Do I think he need's them to win? No. They're just another option for him.
the blades seem like a definite game-changer.the best battle speed feat i can recall off-hand from orion was this one:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/124477/2406817-af6cad34.jpg
that's a far better speed feat than someone like say thor has imo. but compared to nano-second, i don't think it's very much. imo though the fact that someone has never been overwhelmed by speed should play at least some part in coming to a conclusion. i def think speed would play a factor. i just don't see it being as big a factor as you do. and not as big a factor as these blades of his would be.
I think speed plays a huge factor when the combatants are near-equals in every other area... It must play a huge factor, imo. How else can we figure out which of them is more powerful overall, if we don't consider such a variable? And I get what you are saying about Orion never being overwhelmed by speed, but again: just because he's fought characters capable of moving fast, doesn't mean they were moving fast... Unless it was stated.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, the blades tip the scales much more in his favor, imo, and they are standard gear. Do I think he need's them to win? No. They're just another option for him.I think speed plays a huge factor when the combatants are near-equals in every other area... It must play a huge factor, imo. How else can we figure out which of them is more powerful overall, if we don't consider such a variable? And I get what you are saying about Orion never being overwhelmed by speed, but again: just because he's fought characters capable of moving fast, doesn't mean they were moving fast... Unless it was stated.
oh i'm not saying don't consider it as i'm pretty sure you know, i just think that it leads to some skewed conclusions if too much emphasis is placed on it. the scan i showed indicates he does have superspeed. we know he has great travel speed and we know he's never been (that i know of) overwhelmed by anyone with superspeed. did they not use it because orion could reply to it? or is it the usual pis? not sure. i just know that the same reasoning could be used to say that superman stomps thor and that is a line of reasoning i'm personally not comfortable following unless there is a specific reason for straying from it (ie--you think thor handles speed better, has better speed feats, etc....) i actually think orion has BETTER speed feats than thor, so to follow your train of thought would lead me to the idea that maj stomps thor even worse than he beats orion. and hell, maybe he DOES, specially with the blades. i just never thought that the case. you're just elevating maj to a level i didn't know he was at thb.
Originally posted by leonidasThe scan you posted shows an ambiguous level of superspeed + Orion was moving in a straight line. Personally, I would relate that more to travel speed, then I would battle speed.
oh i'm not saying don't consider it as i'm pretty sure you know, i just think that it leads to some skewed conclusions if too much emphasis is placed on it. the scan i showed indicates he does have superspeed. we know he has great travel speed and we know he's never been (that i know of) overwhelmed by anyone with superspeed. did they not use it because orion could reply to it? or is it the usual pis? not sure. i just know that the same reasoning could be used to say that superman stomps thor and that is a line of reasoning i'm personally not comfortable following unless there is a specific reason for straying from it (ie--you think thor handles speed better, has better speed feats, etc....) i actually think orion has BETTER speed feats than thor, so to follow your train of thought would lead me to the idea that maj stomps thor even worse than he beats orion. and hell, maybe he DOES, specially with the blades. i just never thought that the case.
Speed likely isn't used against Orion in comics purely thanks to PIS(outside of the Flash family, speed is rarely ever used in lengthy battles.) Again, I'm not comfortable with giving Orion uber battle speed feats, just because he's fought characters capable of moving fast.
I think Thor would do better, because he and Bill are rough equals, and I've seen Bill fight Surfer whilst they were both moving FTL(Bill was on top of Skuttlebutt, and Surfer was... Surfing.)
I think that was most of your points?
Originally posted by leonidasBy listing things he has done on panel? I definitely wouldn't call that 'elevation'. /shrug
you're just elevating maj to a level i didn't know he was at thb.
Originally posted by Golgo13Zealot used one of Majestic's Kusar blades to cut/block Captain Atom's quantum energy blasts-- dunno why Orion's standard AF blasts would fare any better..?
I'm just wondering how Majestic would block the Astro Force. Has he done so in the past? On the LEVEL of the Astro Force?
