Darth Sidious Vs Durge

Sorry for the double-post, but I looked at the part with Yoda and Sidious doing the force battle again and Yoda actually flys over 25 feet when they shove each other away compared to Sidious going less than 10 feet.

If you watch chapter 40, you can see the Center pod that Yoda and Sidious are having a lightsaber fight on. This was looks slightly different than the rest of them. The pod appears to be about 10 feet long and there are about 3 pod lengths between it and the nearest other pod.

When they fly back, Sidious flys to the end of the pod, less then 10 feet back, but Yoda flies onto the center pod, over 30 feet back.

Just thought it was a necessary point.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
On this whole gravity-thing for Yoda throwing the pod back, Sidious did the same thing with three pods. Look at the part that I earlier mentioned with having sparks when Sidious is holding several pods and you can see that Sidious throws several(at least three) up into the air before throwing them down at Yoda, presumably to gain momentum.

Actually... Glentract has a valid point here that apparently no one else has covered. I believe he may have convinced me here.

Sidious was in a pod himself, and was using the Force to levitate it in the air. He had three others in formation around himself, levitating above his head, thus defying gravity. Sidious could not have manipulated the pods himself, unable to be behind the controls of the pod. He was using the Force to keep all three pods in the air. Then, a close up of his face was shown as he jerked his arm backward, moving a pod back, farther up into the air, defying gravity again. He brought his arm down, and sent the pod screaming for Yoda.

Yoda had to stop the pod and gravity, this is true. But so did Sidious. Sidious had 'four' pods floating in the air, including his own, and pushed them up, thusly defying gravity every bit - even moreso - than Yoda.

Yoda = Sidious in the Force, or it is very possible that Sidious > Yoda.

He's levitating the pod under himself? I didn't see this at all. Especially since when he jumped to avoid the pod Yoda threw back at him the pod was still stationary. Why would he still hold it in the air, assuming he did in the first place?

Thats a gutsy comment there Escape.

Originally posted by Ianus
He's levitating the pod under himself? I didn't see this at all. Especially since when he jumped to avoid the pod Yoda threw back at him the pod was still stationary. Why would he still hold it in the air, assuming he did in the first place?

That's also a good point. So let's say that he was 'controlling' the pod that he was standing in. Still, he held three other pods in the air, and he could not have controlled them via the pod controls, since he'd have to be behind them himself to do it. So that means he took 'three' pods and pushed them up into the air with the Force with perpetual ease.

He took a hold of one with the Force and jerked his arm back behind him. The pod followed and went higher into the air, like a cobra going to strike. Sidious smashed his arm forward, and the pod hurtled through the air. Yoda caught one of the pods, but had to use effort to send it back.

Indeed, Sidious did a feat that was greater than Yoda's with more ease. You cannot deny Sidious did not defy gravity. He did. And as for the struggle with the lightning, if the opponents were equal... that is to say, if Yoda and Sidious were equal, the fight could've gone either way.

Yoda was at the edge of the pod, this is true.

But like dodgeball. If an opponent of equal strength throws the ball at me, but I catch it, I can theoretically toss it back and hit him, like Yoda with Sidious. Granted this is not an ironclad example, but come to think of it, I don't see any true reason why Yoda could be Sidious's superior in the Force.

No, I just watched it. Glentract was right about Sidious bringing three up at a time to gain momentum. I concede that. But Sidious was NOT levitating the one beneath him. It's still grounded like the other pods.

Originally posted by The Creator
Thats a gutsy comment there Escape.

Personally, Yoda is my favorite character. I hold him in slightly higher regards than I do for Sidious and Dooku. But why is it gutsy? Simply because many of the forums have been indoctrinated to naturally assume Yoda is Sidious's superior in the Force and saber ability? Since, that he lost to Mace, he must necessarily be Yoda's inferior? This isn't the case. All of the sources I can cite state that either the battle was a stalemate, or Yoda simply could not overpower Sidious.

I personally believe both are equal. Glentract's statement hit me home. I neglected this detail. Indeed, Sidious exhibits a mastery of the Force that is easily Yoda's equal, having been made to be Yoda's opposite. I believe they were meant to be counterpoised. Just as Sidious's ability to manipulate the pods far greater than Yoda was not enough to warrant Sidious the title of stronger Force user, I see not why Yoda's deflection of Sidious's lightning is enough for the same.

I think they just made a blooper in the movie, because the pod was moving around before that. Perhaps it is one of the ones that floats and it was moving around as he was moving the pods around?

Nah, that idea sucks. It's must be a blooper.

Originally posted by Ianus
No, I just watched it. Glentract was right about Sidious bringing three up at a time to gain momentum. I concede that. But Sidious was NOT levitating the one beneath him. It's still grounded like the other pods.

I agreed after you mentioned it. So, in essence, Sidious managed to bring up three pods and directly defy gravity by pushing three pods directly up compared to Yoda's single pod, which was directed at an angle.

Not only that, but one must then take into account that Yoda used immense effort to push that one pod back at Sidious, whereas Sidious effortlessly lifted three, directly against gravity.

This evidence might be enough to shift the tides. Indeed, Sidious may be Yoda's true equal afterall.

About the lightning war... Sidious zaps Yoda with one hand. Out goes the lightsaber. Yoda then reaches UP and grabs the lightning. Sidious uses both hands now, and Yoda blocks with both hands.

Sidious then steps forward. He seems to be cackling with delight. Yoda is leaning backwards, appearing pained. Then, he gets a loot of Resolve (tm). He pushes forward. Sidious suddenly looks pained (And sounds it too) Then there's the explosion. Sidious goes head over heels backwards. Yoda is not onscreen for the explosion. Indeed, all we see is the next shot of him falling down. So it was not Yoda flying more. That's bullshit.

Originally posted by Escape81
Personally, Yoda is my favorite character. I hold him in slightly higher regards than I do for Sidious and Dooku. But why is it gutsy? Simply because many of the forums have been indoctrinated to naturally assume Yoda is Sidious's superior in the Force and saber ability? Since, that he lost to Mace, he must necessarily be Yoda's inferior? This isn't the case. All of the sources I can cite state that either the battle was a stalemate, or Yoda simply could not overpower Sidious.

I personally believe both are equal. Glentract's statement hit me home. I neglected this detail. Indeed, Sidious exhibits a mastery of the Force that is easily Yoda's equal, having been made to be Yoda's opposite. I believe they were meant to be counterpoised. Just as Sidious's ability to manipulate the pods far greater than Yoda was not enough to warrant Sidious the title of stronger Force user, I see not why Yoda's deflection of Sidious's lightning is enough for the same.

Its gutsy because your saying a guy with 850 years of experience isn't a stronger force user than a man with roughly 65 years of experience. But then again Sidious could be a naturally stronger force user.

Originally posted by Escape81
I agreed after you mentioned it. So, in essence, Sidious managed to bring up three pods and directly defy gravity by pushing three pods directly up compared to Yoda's single pod, which was directed at an angle.

Not only that, but one must then take into account that Yoda used immense effort to push that one pod back at Sidious, whereas Sidious effortlessly lifted three, directly against gravity.

This evidence might be enough to shift the tides. Indeed, Sidious may be Yoda's true equal afterall.

Uh, watch the scene again. Yoda caught that one pod in less than a second. Despite its high velocity, he catches it instantly. Sidious doesn't, despite the fact that Yoda's pod is going UP and is SLOWER. Watch the scene again.

Originally posted by Ianus
Uh, watch the scene again. Yoda caught that one pod in less than a second. Despite its high velocity, he catches it instantly. Sidious doesn't, despite the fact that Yoda's pod is going UP and is SLOWER. Watch the scene again.

Forgive me. I didn't mean about him catching it. I meant that it took more effort out of him to chuck a pod back, even at an angle, than it took Sidious's three pods going directly up. Yes. Sidious chucks it and Yoda catches the pod. He twists it for a few seconds and then sends it back.

Sidious 'laughing', his eyes are closed, and his hand is covering his face. He sees the pod, inclines his head in confusion, and whirls away at the last moment. I did watch the scene, Ianus.

Originally posted by The Creator
Its gutsy because your saying a guy with 850 years of experience isn't a stronger force user than a man with roughly 65 years of experience. But then again Sidious could be a naturally stronger force user.

This is true. But consider. Yoda, by his age, ought to be able to annihilate both Darth Sidious and Count Dooku in their respective duels, but isn't able to destroy either of them. Which means either Yoda was a tad bit of a slow learner, or Sidious and Dooku were potentially more powerful Force users, or that both simply learned the ways of the Force much easier.

His eyes AREN'T closed.

And Yoda isn't having trouble with the one pod; he's spinning it to gain velocity. I just watched it three times to make sure.

Originally posted by Escape81
Forgive me. I didn't mean about him catching it. I meant that it took more effort out of him to chuck a pod back, even at an angle, than it took Sidious's three pods going directly up. Yes. Sidious chucks it and Yoda catches the pod. He twists it for a few seconds and then sends it back.

Sidious 'laughing', his eyes are closed, and his hand is covering his face. He sees the pod, inclines his head in confusion, and whirls away at the last moment. I did watch the scene, Ianus.

"The force is strong in this one."

Personally, though Yoda is my favorite character, I don't really see him as downright superior to Sidious. Not since Glentract managed to bring that information to my eyes. I hope this doesn't warrant me the title of a fanboy. But considering how I see no direct opposition to this, though I think Ianus is coming up with something very clever, perhaps this is on the path where Yoda and Sidious may be seen as equals in combat. Even though Yoda is cooler. 😛

Look at the pod Yoda lands on. It a unique pod, none of the others in the chamber look like it. It is the center pod, shown for only a second or two.

YOu can tell this because it has those two simi-wall things that Yoda and Sidious are standing on when they fight.

It also is by itself, none of the other ones are alone like this.

Plus, the floor in the backround of the shot it a circular pattern. This has not been shown around any of the other pods.

Added to that, the little buttons can be seen for a brief moment when Yoda is trying to grap on(about a second before the close up of Yoda's nails scratching the side of the pod) and they are the same as the ones on the center pod during the lightsaber fight.

If all that wasn't enough, Yoda crashed by some of the pods Sidious through at him. The angle these were thrown at shows Yoda is on the other side of the chamber.

And the absolute proof that Yoda fell on the center pod it that if you play it frame bby frame, as Yoda is falling, the pod he was holding on to is held up by a large pole. Only the pod in the center of the chamber had this feature. It is almost impossible to see unless you play it slowed down.

Ahh, but Yoda only uses the force for defensive purposes and also wasn't trying to kill Dooku but capture him. Not to mention the little green dude is 874 years old. But I will agree that Sidious had more potential than Yoda I mean look at his Dark Empire version.

Originally posted by Ianus
His eyes AREN'T closed.

And Yoda isn't having trouble with the one pod; he's spinning it to gain velocity. I just watched it three times to make sure.

Are you sure? The status of my television is in question, considering it was nailed by the storms that recently occured here (I live in Tennesee) but it doesn't seem that his eyes are open.

So, Sidious was laughing his ass off while watching Yoda lift a pod back up at him, and decided to do nothing to stop it? I'm not so sure...