KMC members you dont want to meet in a dark alley....

Started by Newjak11 pages

Originally posted by Flame On!!
But it's not what I said either it's someone not understanding that "most" in his experience do. Natural trainers generally = much weaker. Hence why people like Marius Puds get tested positive. It's also true in most gyms.

-FO!!

That is true although generally it is because natural trainers take longer and often are more committed to look rather than actual strength hence they generally stay weaker for the leaner body.

Also with most athlete trainers they tend to prefer more athletic builds which limits the mass they can gain. They have to stay mobile which in turn means the Body Mass you can gain is limited. Even though a good portion of athletes do go on to get to strength levels comparable to most Roid Users.

Most high strength trainers that aren't in a sanctioned sport on the other hand tend to use them because for :

one it isn't illegal to use them.

And it gets you to the same point faster.

So there are reasons why most Natural Trainers tend to stay weaker then Roid users. Most people can still reach the level of non-Roid users it just takes longer and people generally don't want to reach those levels to begin with.

i can't believe i sat and read through this thread only to come to a 'a person doen't need steroids to bench 300' argument... thread should have been let die... 🙁

Originally posted by Newjak

Most high strength trainers that aren't in a sanctioned sport on the other hand tend to use them because for :

I disagree

Soccer (Real Football) ie Jap Stam

Many American Footballers to many to mention

Rugby players to many to mention

some Baseball stars

even Cricketers (e.g. Shane Warne maybe the best Bowler of all time)

http://forum.gardenroute.com/archive/index.php/t-89.html

take gear with many it's about improved recovery after training which Nandrolone will do.

-FO!!

Originally posted by Flame On!!
I disagree

Soccer (Real Football) ie Jap Stam

Many American Footballers to many to mention

Rugby players to many to mention

some Baseball stars

even Cricketers (e.g. Shane Warne maybe the best Bowler of all time)

http://forum.gardenroute.com/archive/index.php/t-89.html

take gear with many it's about improved recovery after training which Nandrolone will do.

-FO!!

Most American Football players are you sure about that because most tend to get tested rather regularly. I mean that isn't like most other sports those people get tested regularly. There have been documented cases of steroid abuse but the only reason they are documented is because those people got caught.

Most Football players do not take steroids.

Most athletes do not just because a given few get caught doesn't mean they all do 😬

Originally posted by pr1983
i can't believe i sat and read through this thread only to come to a 'a person doen't need steroids to bench 300' argument... thread should have been let die... 🙁
What would you have me argue about 🙁

Originally posted by Newjak
What would you have me argue about 🙁

lol, its always an argument with you isn't it? 😛

Originally posted by Newjak
Most American Football players are you sure about that because most tend to get tested rather regularly. I mean that isn't like most other sports those people get tested regularly. There have been documented cases of steroid abuse but the only reason they are documented is because those people got caught.

Most Football players do not take steroids.

Most athletes do not just because a given few get caught doesn't mean they all do 😬

Masking agents.

Various stims and steroids and blood dopers who have been caught the variety will shock you.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/glossary/dictionary.html

-FO!!

Originally posted by pr1983
lol, its always an argument with you isn't it? 😛
Of course

Also Flame On I would like to point out that many of those masking agents can be expensive and when I said Athletes I meant all athletes even grade school ones and college most of whom do not possess the money or the means to get those

😬

Originally posted by Newjak
Of course

Also Flame On I would like to point out that many of those masking agents can be expensive and when I said Athletes I meant all athletes even grade school ones and college most of whom do not possess the money or the means to get those

😬

Well cycling the steroid avoids getting caught and something like primo is in and out in 48 hours and completely untestable in 4 days. It's about knowing and coachs know. believe me.

-FO!!

Originally posted by Flame On!!
Well cycling the steroid avoids getting caught and something like primo is in and out in 48 hours and completely untestable in 4 days. It's about knowing and coachs know. believe me.

-FO!!

I'm not saying people don't but the majority do not. Your talking about the rare occasions people do use that stuff.

This is just an estimation but I would say 80-85% of all athletes do not use that stuff and most can get to the level of non steroid users fine. I've known plenty of people myself who have done so.
😬

Originally posted by Redatom65
wouldn't want to meet spunky in a dark alley <_<
lookaround

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not saying people don't but the majority do not. Your talking about the rare occasions people do use that stuff.

This is just an estimation but I would say 80-85% of all athletes do not use that stuff and most can get to the level of non steroid users fine. I've known plenty of people myself who have done so.
😬

I'd disagree on my own observations about Adult athletes at County, University or Regional level and above.

-FO!!

Seriously, I wouldn't want to meet guy222 in a dark alley . . .

Originally posted by Flame On!!
I'd disagree on my own observations about Adult athletes at County, University or Regional level and above.

-FO!!

I'd disagree based on my own observations about minor and adult athletes at State, University, and Pro levels

i tend to agree with newjak to an extent... there are far more athletes not using steroids than there are those who would use them... at least imo...

Originally posted by pr1983
i tend to agree with newjak to an extent... there are far more athletes not using steroids than there are those who would use them... at least imo...
I knew you couldn't resist joining in 😛

Originally posted by Newjak
I'd disagree based on my own observations about minor and adult athletes at State, University, and Pro levels

Well perhaps it's not as obvious in the US as in the UK however two in a hundred twelth graders in the US use steroids.

http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/indicators/92SteroidUse.cfm

that's actually a huge number when you consider 50 of that hundred are girls. mean one in 25 grade 12 students in the US are on gear. Now extrapolate up.

🙂

-FO!!

Originally posted by Newjak
I knew you couldn't resist joining in 😛

couldn't help it... i played football (english football, soccer to americans), for years, and to be honest it never seemed to be as big an issue...

1. This thread has nothing to do with comics
2. This discussion has nothing to do with the thread
3. This discussion has nothing to do with comics

Can we close this?

Originally posted by pr1983
i tend to agree with newjak to an extent... there are far more athletes not using steroids than there are those who would use them... at least imo...

A History of Steroid use in sport.

Steroids in Olympics
Just prior to the ban on steroids in the Olympics, the German Democratic Republic (GDR) began a program with the goals of synthesizing new anabolic steroids for their athletes to use in various sports. Their body of research remains the most extensive collection of information on the use of steroids in athletes ever complied (5). Despite the small size of their country, they managed to consistently dominate the top ranks of various sports, competing with both the United States and the Soviet Union for total medals in both the Olympics and various World Championships. In 1972, the IOC began a full scale drug-testing program (8).

By 1982, the International Olympic Council had developed a test for the detection of excess levels of testosterone in athletes, known as the "Testosterone: Epitestosterone test". In this test, levels of testosterone vs/ epitestosterone are measured, and if the testosterone level is 6x that of the epitestosterone level, it can safely be concluded that some form of testosterone has been used by the athlete. This is because testosterone is commonly no more than 6x the natural level of epitestosterone found naturally in the body. Thus, if there were more than that ratio, it was not naturally occurring, in all probability. The IOC was, as usual, one step behind the athletes. The GDR had already done a study on their athletes using a form of testosterone which would leave the body quickly, and thus they would be ready for the IOC test within three days of their last injection (6). They then developed a protocol to allow their athletes to continue steroid use, ceasing it only long enough to pass the drug test. In addition, the German firm Jenapharm, who had been supplying the government with steroids for their athletes, developed an epitestosterone product to administer to athletes to bring the ratio back to normal without discontinuing steroid use (5).

Their doping methods were so advanced, however, that they remained undetected for many years, until late 1989 when information was leaked to the western media about a government sponsored program of systematic anabolic steroid administration and concealment. Eventually, in the early 1990´s, the Germans had finally gotten caught, and the ensuing scandal was one which helped give anabolic steroids the bad reputation they have had ever since. Ironically, it was also in the early 1990´s that anabolic steroids had started to be used by the medical community to improve survival rates of AIDS and Cancer patients, when it was discovered that loss of lean body mass was associated with increased mortality rates respective to those diseases (14).

A similar story was being played out in the United States at about that same time. Before 1988, steroids were only prescription drugs, as classified by by the FDA (Food and Drug Administration). FDA determines which drugs will be classified as over-the-counter versus those which will only be available through prescription. At this time, the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, was invoked to restrict the access of steroids, making them available only by prescription. They were still not controlled substances at this time, however.

A "Controlled substance" is one that is more firmly regulated than uncontrolled prescription drugs. As an example, contact lenses can only be legally purchased with a prescription, but they are not &qont;rolled" per se. This stricter control of steroids created a vastly more intense examination of the doctors prescribing them; and of course, more harsh penalties for wrongful dispensing. 1988 also marked the passage of the Anti-Drug Abuse Act, which put steroids in a totally different prescription category, one that stipulated very severe legal penalties for illegal sale or possession with intent to distribute. Now, steroid possession and/or distribution was considered a felony. Next, the United States Congress added steroids to the Controlled Substances Act as an amendment known as the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990. Steroids were now placed in "Schedule III" classification, along with amphetamines, methamphetamines, opium, and morphine, and carrying the same penalties for buying or selling them. This legislation and classification was passed without the support of the American Medical Association, the FDA, the DEA, and the National Institute on Drug Abuse, all of whom actually protested the federal and state lIn the early part of the new millennium, steroids have again been pushed to the forefront of the news by the introduction of "prohormones" which were first developed and marketed by Patrick Arnold. It is at this point that the history of steroids in baseball begins to become more prominent; this is in all probability because Major League Baseball had no steroid testing program in effect during this time. During his epic quest to break Ted Williams´ home-run record, Mark Maguire was spotted by a reporter to have had a bottle of Androstendione in his locker. Although androstendione is not a steroid, and is simply a prohormone, the word /spanym-buyer, as did demand& and unfortunately, the prevalence of fake or counterfeit steroids.

Steroids remained in the media, occasionally making an appearance when an athlete tested positive, or admitted using them, but for another decade, they remained uncharacteristically out of the media’s attention.

In the early part of the new millennium, steroids have again been pushed to the forefront of the news by the introduction of “prohormones” which were first developed and marketed by Patrick Arnold. It is at this point that the history of steroids in baseball begins to become more prominent; this is in all probability because Major League Baseball had no steroid testing program in effect during this time. During his epic quest to break Ted Williams’ home-run record, Mark Maguire was spotted by a reporter to have had a bottle of Androstendione in his locker. Although androstendione is not a steroid, and is simply a prohormone, the word “steroid” was again found circulating in the news on a nightly basis.

Not shortly after Ted Williams’ record was broken, another baseball player, Jason Giambi and various other athletes were either suspected of, or proven to have, taken anabolic steroids. Again, Congress convened a hearing, and just as they did the first time in 1990, they did not determine that steroids were a danger, but rather that the danger was more in protecting professional sports organizations. The updated statute has been updated to proscribe pro-hormones also The definition of an anabolic steroid as defined currently in the United States under (41)(A) is that "anabolic steroid" means any drug or hormonal substance, chemically and pharmacologically related to testosterone (other than estrogens, progestins, corticosteroids, and dehydroepiandrosterone (7).

Currently, steroid use is far from declining. Among 12th graders surveyed in 2000, 2.5% reported using steroids at least once in their lives, while in 2004 the number was 3.4% (9). A recent internet study also concluded that “anabolic steroid use among weightlifters and bodybuilders continues” (12), and by all accounts, there are no signs of it stopping in athletics any time soon.

In addition, the legitimate use of anabolic steroids for a variety of medical problems also continues, ranging from the treatment of Andropause or Menopause, and ranging from speeding the recovery in burn victims to helping improve quality of life in Aids patients, to helping fight breast cancer and stave off osteoporosis.

Thus, the history of anabolic steroids is not something that has already occurred and been written, but rather it is a continuing history being written every day by scientists, lawmakers, doctors and of course, athletes.

References
Maisel AQ. The Hormone Quest (1965) Random House
Kochakian CD. J Nutr (1935) 23 135
Kenyon AT et al. Endocrinology (1938) 23 135
Kochakian CD. Handbook Exp Pharmacol (1975) 43 1
Clinical Chemistry. 43, No7, 1997.
Clausnitzer, et al [Article in German] 1982.
United States Congressional records.
Vet Hum Toxicol. 2003 Mar;45(2):97-102.
United States Bureau of Statistics, 2005.
National Institute on Drug Abuse
United States Drug Enforcement Agency
Clin J Sport Med. 2005 Sep;15(5):326-30.
Marti Henneberg, C, et al. J. Pediatr 6;783-88. 1975.
Journal of the American Medical Association, Editorial. April 14, 1999, vol 281, No. 14.
Steroids. 1996 Aug;61(8):492-503.