Hulk strength v power gem strength

okay. most seem to believe that the wielder of the power gem is capable to becoming stronger than the hulk. personally, i think it's the other way around.

what? art thou daft, leo???

i don't think so -- or at least not completely 😉

power gem: allows wielder to draw on 'unltd power' whose source is the universe itself!

hulk's strength: drawn on from a DIFFERENT/ALTERNATE universe/dimension, also said to be 'limitless'. the difference is, (and bear in mind this is hypothetical and not necessarily practical) that hulk's strength, and the source of it, is believed to be ltd only by hulk's imagination.

soooo . . . if drax with the pg summoned ALL the universe's power, a limit will have been reached -- ie, his strength is NOT infinite, it is ltd by the energy available in the universe. hulk on the other hand HAS no true limit. he only needs to imagine himself even stronger. his strenght is (theoretically) NOT bound by the physical laws of the universe, as the wielder of the power gem's strength is.

soooooo . . . hulk could conceiveably be stronger than even the FULL POWER of the power gem!

agree? disagree?

have at my 'theory'!

boxing

ps-this IS a theoretical discussion. hulk would likely never reach that strength, as a pg user would never absorb ALL the universe's power.

i believe its true......thanos........defeated thor with the power gem we all know that thanos dosent have limitless strength......so either the gem really sucks ass....or no one really knows how to use it to its full potential.....

Originally posted by leonidas
okay. most seem to believe that the wielder of the power gem is capable to becoming stronger than the hulk. personally, i think it's the other way around.

what? art thou daft, leo???

i don't think so -- or at least not completely 😉

power gem: allows wielder to draw on 'unltd power' whose source is the universe itself!

hulk's strength: drawn on from a DIFFERENT/ALTERNATE universe/dimension, also said to be 'limitless'. the difference is, (and bear in mind this is hypothetical and not necessarily practical) that hulk's strength, and the source of it, is believed to be ltd only by hulk's imagination.

soooo . . . if drax with the pg summoned ALL the universe's power, a limit will have been reached -- ie, his strength is NOT infinite, it is ltd by the energy available in the universe. hulk on the other hand HAS no true limit. he only needs to imagine himself even stronger. his strenght is (theoretically) NOT bound by the physical laws of the universe, as the wielder of the power gem's strength is.

soooooo . . . hulk could conceiveably be stronger than even the FULL POWER of the power gem!

agree? disagree?

have at my 'theory'!

boxing

ps-this IS a theoretical discussion. hulk would likely never reach that strength, as a pg user would never absorb ALL the universe's power.

If he would absorb all the Universe's power, would he not absorb Hulk's power too? 😄

LOL Thanos strength is comparable to that of Hulks. Don't make me whip out that scan again.

To say he beat Thor is a moot point.

the power gem is a funny bit of business. It guarantees the wielder infinite power- not just infinite bench pressing ability.

Likewise, the gems of space, time, reality, and the soul give their wielders total mastery of their respective areas. All of them together puts whoever is using it just below the living freaking tribunal. Thats a hell of a lot of power.

I hate to use she hulk as an example (I have the feeling that particular issue was more humor oriented than anything), but a champion of the universe with the gem physically punked every high end cosmic in the ring. Surfer, Drax, Gladiator....etc

Those with an affinity for the gems (champion, drax) will get better use out of it than a novice. Warrior madness thor had infinite power with the gem, but not the skill to use it. Thanos, being much more experience and smart as hell beat him anyway. Same thing with champion and drax. Intelligence and skill can trump sheer power more often than not.

And the hulk does not have unlimited universal power. He's powered by gamma radiation. Surfer was able to drain him of it and revert him back to banner with no problem.

Good post, Mummy

Originally posted by GODSCRIBE
Good post, Mummy

thanks!

<<And the hulk does not have unlimited universal power. He's powered by gamma radiation. >>

gamma rays simply cause the mutation. his strength (as pointed out by the beyonder) is actually drawn from different dimension -- as is, presumably, his mass. when ss drained his gamma rays, that's like saying he drained his mutation, or that he 'healed him'. ss couldn't beat hulk in a battle of strength.

what we're talking about here is who has the potentially higher end limit on STRENGTH. i still say hulk.

But what if Universe is limitless?

Originally posted by leonidas
<<And the hulk does not have unlimited universal power. He's powered by gamma radiation. >>

gamma rays simply cause the mutation. his strength (as pointed out by the beyonder) is actually drawn from different dimension -- as is, presumably, his mass. when ss drained his gamma rays, that's like saying he drained his mutation, or that he 'healed him'. ss couldn't beat hulk in a battle of strength.

what we're talking about here is who has the potentially higher end limit on STRENGTH. i still say hulk.

lets assume this is an arm wrestling match- power gem vs. hulk.

Ok, thinking purely theoretically- the power gem grants infinite and inexhaustible strength in the hands of a skilled user. It doesn't come FROM this universe- its part of a being that claimed to create this universe. (or something, my infinity gem history is a little rusty)
Per its discription, its infinite. as in "not finite", no limit.

The hulk theoretically can attain infinite strength, but needs to get mad enough and STAY mad enough to sustain that level of strength. Can the hulk remain infinitely angry for an infinite amount of time? I say no- he's powerful but still mortal. given a long enough timeline, he'll exhaust his ability to draw on this infinite source of power, and eventually lose.

what about the juggernaut? his power source should be infinite as well. in an arm wrestling match, I think jugs could go pretty much forever, since he doesnt tire or require sustenance, and his strength isnt dependent on his emotional state.

Hulk's strength DOES originate in another dimension. Examples where his powers were negated by absorbing gamma radiation like in the case of surfer or tyrannus are PIS. The most recent attempt of Surfer to siphon off the Hulk's gamma radiation simply resulted in Surfer getting smacked around; albeit in this case the Hulk and Banner were separated. However, something like this happening is contingent on the writer, whether or not they want to portray the Hulk as the strongest character in the MU or as a plot device.

Concerning the power gem, I agree with a lot of people who say it depends on the wielder. Yes someone like Champion or Thanos who could probably demonstrate a true mastery of the gem would consequently possess all the power/strength of the universe. They would also probably demonstrate far superior strength than the Hulk, unless its one of those exceptional cases where the Hulk's strength defies physics, i.e. when he resisted the matter/anti-matter attraction.

Originally posted by Space M ummy

And the hulk does not have unlimited universal power. He's powered by gamma radiation. Surfer was able to drain him of it and revert him back to banner with no problem.

Im just going to pick on this one more time...in his most recent attempt, the Surfer tried to drain the gamma radiation off the Hulk again and revert him back to Banner. Since Banner no longer existed in that dimension the Surfer's attempts were useless and he got smacked around by the Hulk for several pages...demonstrating that gamma radiation is a byproduct of Hulk's condition, not the source.

Furthermore, the Hulk's power has been described as having a limitless extradimensional source by the Living Tribunal and the pre-retconned Beyonder...thus by relative terms of strength he is potentially one of the strongest guys around...although I dont see him taking on any of the higher level cosmics under normal conditions; they not only have the power to initially defeat him but they also have the near omnitience to take down someone so one dimensional. However, an angry Hulk will always be able to bring a fight to Thanos and Champion.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Hulk's strength DOES originate in another dimension. Examples where his powers were negated by absorbing gamma radiation like in the case of surfer or tyrannus are PIS. The most recent attempt of Surfer to siphon off the Hulk's gamma radiation simply resulted in Surfer getting smacked around; albeit in this case the Hulk and Banner were separated. However, something like this happening is contingent on the writer, whether or not they want to portray the Hulk as the strongest character in the MU or as a plot device.

Concerning the power gem, I agree with a lot of people who say it depends on the wielder. Yes someone like Champion or Thanos who could probably demonstrate a true mastery of the gem would consequently possess all the power/strength of the universe. They would also probably demonstrate far superior strength than the Hulk, unless its one of those exceptional cases where the Hulk's strength defies physics, i.e. when he resisted the matter/anti-matter attraction.

Im just going to pick on this one more time...in his most recent attempt, the Surfer tried to drain the gamma radiation off the Hulk again and revert him back to Banner. Since Banner no longer existed in that dimension the Surfer's attempts were useless and he got smacked around by the Hulk for several pages...demonstrating that gamma radiation is a byproduct of Hulk's condition, not the source.

Furthermore, the Hulk's power has been described as having a limitless extradimensional source by the Living Tribunal and the pre-retconned Beyonder...thus by relative terms of strength he is potentially one of the strongest guys around...although I dont see him taking on any of the higher level cosmics under normal conditions; they not only have the power to initially defeat him but they also have the near omnitience to take down someone so one dimensional. However, an angry Hulk will always be able to bring a fight to Thanos and Champion.

Ah, I was unaware of that. I consider myself corrected on the gamma radiation thing.

Other than that, I still believe my point is valid- unless he can remain infinitely angry for an infinite amount of time, he loses a contest of strength vs. an experienced gem holder. If for some reason he CAN, then its a stalemate- much like I expect a juggernaut vs. gem holder should be.

also: hulk will always lose to Thanos- the man simply is too intelligent, too experienced, and has too many options. A well written champion (does such a thing exist?) should be able to defeat him, though champion as he's usually written (sans gem) wins maybe 4/10 to a sufficiently angry hulk.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Ah, I was unaware of that. I consider myself corrected on the gamma radiation thing.

Other than that, I still believe my point is valid- unless he can remain infinitely angry for an infinite amount of time, he loses a contest of strength vs. an experienced gem holder.

Why would he have to be stronger for an infiite amount of time? In something like an arm wrestle he would only have to be stronger until he pins his arm. If it's a benching contest, he would only have to be stronger during the bench press.

Hulk has never demonstrated he wasnt strong enough to do something. Thats why the secret wars example wasnt bad writing in my opinion. It would have been bad writing if he were shown as not strong enough. No matter what, Juggernaut is clearly only a fraction as strong as Cytorrak...to say he could hang with Thanos or Champion would be a very strong assumption...a teenage class 70 Colossus put Juggernaut on his ass in one of his first appearances. Champion turned Colossus into a bruised piece of steel. Juggernaut took over a decade to crawl out from under a mountain of rubble. Champion has shattered planets in a single punch...they are clearly in different leagues.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Hulk has never demonstrated he wasnt strong enough to do something. Thats why the secret wars example wasnt bad writing in my opinion. It would have been bad writing if he were shown as not strong enough. No matter what, Juggernaut is clearly only a fraction as strong as Cytorrak...to say he could hang with Thanos or Champion would be a very strong assumption...a teenage class 70 Colossus put Juggernaut on his ass in one of his first appearances. Champion turned Colossus into a bruised piece of steel. Juggernaut took over a decade to crawl out from under a mountain of rubble. Champion has shattered planets in a single punch...they are clearly in different leagues.

I agree.

When did Champion beat down Colossus? When did Jugs take a decade to crawl out from under a mountain? I'd be intersted in knowing the issues.. ballpark at least.

Originally posted by scotsmn
Why would he have to be stronger for an infiite amount of time? In something like an arm wrestle he would only have to be stronger until he pins his arm. If it's a benching contest, he would only have to be stronger during the bench press.

He would need to remain infinitely strong for an infinite amount of time, because thats what the power gem grants. Infinite and inexhaustible power. I picked an arm wrestling contest because thats the simplest "strength vs. strength" contest I could think of on the spot. In a case where infinite is vs. infinite, it would be a stalemate, until one declines, unlike a bench pressing contest where all you have to do is lift heavier and heavier weights.

here's another example, using stereo amplifiers. I have a 100 watt Onkyo amp, and a 100 watt sony amp. The Sony amp has a 100 watt peak- it can hit 100 watts, but only for a brief period of time, it can't sustain it. The Onkyo is 100 watts RMS- It's capable of sustaining an output of 100 watts for a much longer period of time- say a half hour or so before you see a decline in power.

Which one is stronger? the Onkyo, obviously. Thats what we're looking at with Hulk vs. a Gem holder. if both can (theoretically) hit a level of infinite strength, the one who holds out longer is clearly the stronger. The gem is inexhaustible. Hulk can sustain his peak only as he can stay sufficiently angry. Hulk has a limit, the gem does not- the gem is stronger here.

edit: I picked the juggernaut as an example since his power originates from cyttorak's dimension and is THEORETICALLY also for all intents and purposes inexhaustible. It doesn't matter how long he can stay angry, he should in theory be able to perform at max output for an indefinite amount of time. As for actual feats in comics, we've seen him be defeated, but if he didnt lose now and then, he wouldnt make a very good villain.

Hulk is an infinity of power:

Originally posted by Adam Warlock
Hulk is an infinity of power:

Per your pic, that hulk was separated from banner. Standard hulk (with banner) needs to stay angry to hit high levels of power, and does wear out eventually.

Well then our definitions of strength are completely different. I think of strength as something that gives you the ability to move something. Duration never crosses my mind. When I go to the gym and I'm measuring my strength on a bench press, I have never measured by how long I can hold the weight up... I go by the heaviest amount I can lift.

Leonidas' argument is that the gem can only grant the strength/power of this particular universe, so it's not infinite. Hulk gets his strength from another dimension, maybe something like the speed force... strength force? 😂 This would supposedly make his strength infinite. Because of this, his ability to lift would be infinite.. but you believe his human side wouldn't be able to keep it up indefinitely. I haven't seen Hulk put something down before because he was tired but I guess it's a possibility.

I'm gonna say that Hulk can become stronger for a limited time at least.

leonidas wasn't exactly correct when he said the gem's power is limited to this universe. it was a part of a being that claimed to create universes, so an argument could be made that its power does indeed exceed that contained in THIS particular universe.

in any case, how can you make the argument that the energy contained in one universe/dimension exceeds that of another? how much energy is in a universe? how would you exhaust it?

going back to the gym example: if you and the next guy can both lift 250lbs over your head, but he collapses and drops it after 5 seconds, and you can hold it up for an additional 5 minutes, who's stronger?