Originally posted by leonidas
i think he was addressing the previously mentioned 'unltd' power. the showing of celestial tech>juggs means cyttorak's power is clearly not infinite, nor is juggs strength.
say
leonidas infite power < Kgkg's infite power.
hey it sounds stupid but it seems ones infite power is even greater than others.
Although both the power gem , and hulk can achieve infite power one can still be greater than the other.
Originally posted by leonidas
i think he was addressing the previously mentioned 'unltd' power. the showing of celestial tech>juggs means cyttorak's power is clearly not infinite, nor is juggs strength.
Please , Heroes Reborn was so full of shit it contradicted half of comic-dom .
As i said though Two dimensions override one , not only that but the Celestial tech has to be taken in to account .
Originally posted by kgkg
Marvel have different lvl of infitesay
leonidas infite power < Kgkg's infite power.hey it sounds stupid but it seems ones infinite power is even greater than others.
Although both the power gem , and hulk can achieve infite power one can still be greater than the other.
the only part of that that sounds funny is the kg>leo at ANYTHING!! 😄
oh, and fox, i have no clue what you're talking about or even if you're talking to me. reborn? 😕
it was said cyttorak and juggs have unltd power to draw on. if it were infinite, war hulk wouldn't have overcome it.
Originally posted by leonidas
the only part of that that sounds funny is the kg>leo at ANYTHING!! 😄oh, and fox, i have no clue what you're talking about or even if you're talking to me. reborn? 😕
it was said cyttorak and juggs have unltd power to draw on. if it were infinite, war hulk wouldn't have overcome it.
According to your theory War Hulk out of all the Hulks was the only one able to give Juggernaut a good fight. This means that Juggernaut is greater in strength and power than Savage Hulk. This is why Marvel had to give him War Hulk a different degree of unlimited strength. Thus Juggernauts infinite power is greater than Savage Hulks, so they created War Hulk.
Juggernaut has to tap into his power, this is why we rarely see Juggernauts power increase.
Another time Juggernaut was able to increase his power was when he fought D'Spayre. Although he lost 90% of his power, he was able to get mad which was clearly stated in the comic and boost his powers back up. Thus he was able to walk, and talk with his body reduced to a skeleton.
BTW Juggernaut had to have a good fight with War Hulk, to show that War Hulk was a much more powerful Hulk. If War Hulk wasn't a far more powerful Hulk, then Marvel wouldn't have created him.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
According to your theory War Hulk out of all the Hulks was the only one able to give Juggernaut a good fight. This means that Juggernaut is greater in strength and power than Savage Hulk. This is why Marvel had to give him War Hulk a different degree of unlimited strength. Thus Juggernauts infinite power is greater than Savage Hulks, so they created War Hulk.Juggernaut has to tap into his power, this is why we rarely see Juggernauts power increase.
Another time Juggernaut was able to increase his power was when he fought D'Spayre. Although he lost 90% of his power, he was able to get mad which was clearly stated in the comic and boost his powers back up. Thus he was able to walk, and talk with his body reduced to a skeleton.
BTW Juggernaut had to have a good fight with War Hulk, to show that War Hulk was a much more powerful Hulk. If War Hulk wasn't a far more powerful Hulk, then Marvel wouldn't have created him.
😕
in hulk 172 (??) hulk tossed juggs all over the place and clearly had the upperhand in the fight before tossing him through a mountain and walking away. juggs couldn't even defeat prof definitively without the element of surprise.
there's no reason to think savage couldn't reach war level either. to the best of my knowledge savage has never really TRIED to stop juggs . . .
Originally posted by leonidas
😕in hulk 172 (??) hulk tossed juggs all over the place and clearly had the upperhand in the fight before tossing him through a mountain and walking away. juggs couldn't even defeat prof definitively without the element of surprise.
there's no reason to think savage couldn't reach war level either. to the best of my knowledge savage has never really TRIED to stop juggs . . .
Are you serious? Juggernaut in that fight nearly broke Hulks neck. That fight only ended because Juggernaut in some magicle way was ko'd by tk. Juggernaut said Hulk was to dumb to understand that he was unstoppable.
When they fought the second time surprise or not Hulk had enough time to recover, but he didn't. In that fight it was clear that Juggernaut was just too much for Hulk.
Did you read Hulk 172? do you have the scans? because I do
Originally posted by Soujaboythe fight favored hulk in the end
Are you serious? Juggernaut in that fight nearly broke Hulks neck. That fight only ended because Juggernaut in some magicle way was ko'd by tk. Juggernaut said Hulk was to dumb to understand that he was unstoppable.When they fought the second time surprise or not Hulk had enough time to recover, but he didn't. In that fight it was clear that Juggernaut was just too much for Hulk.
Did you read Hulk 172? do you have the scans? because I do
Originally posted by leonidas
😕in hulk 172 (??) hulk tossed juggs all over the place and clearly had the upperhand in the fight before tossing him through a mountain and walking away. juggs couldn't even defeat prof definitively without the element of surprise.
there's no reason to think savage couldn't reach war level either. to the best of my knowledge savage has never really TRIED to stop juggs . . .
BTW in Hulk 172 it stated that Juggernauts strength can and was growing.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Did he use his shield against Thor in there second or third fight? no yet he still overpowered Thor both times. Shit he nearly killed Thor the third time they fought with a hug, and note this is without his shield.Thus from that scene it appeared that Juggernaut was far stronger than Thor because he simply tossed him around like a rug. This is why so many people disregard there second fight, it went against every thing we know about Juggernaut.
Rubbish. Not only was that stupid writing (Thor cannot breathe so he almost dies but he can survive in space and underwater without air??) but even with the stupid writing, they never portrayed Juggernaut as overpowered Thor with strength. In fact, when Thor was telling the civilians to run away, he was able to block the Juggernaut's blows with his arms.
Juggernaut simply used superior reach when he couldnt breach Thor's defenses with his punching. The same way Maxam used his longer reach to pick up Hercules (who is stronger) and tossed him away into the ocean or Goliath able to pick up and smash the much stronger Hercules into a coma.
Even worse was that they wrote thor as being too stupid to disable the cytorrak with his hammer as he did the first time. In other words, it was simply idiotic writing.
When Juggernaut took the god blast all it did was push him back while he was standing still, and when he was still able to regain himself and walk forward. Note he took the god blast without so much as a scratch.
Thanks to the cytorrak protection and the fact that it wasnt a full god-blast. Even the one that almost killed Galactus wasnt a full-god blast. When the cyttorak enchantments are removed Cain Marko is revealed to be just another punk in need of some good old fashioned corporal punishment.
You stated that Juggernaut's strength couldn't be unlimited because Cyttorak's power isn't unlimited. Well Marvel themselves stated that Juggernaut can call upon the limitless power of Cyttorak, and well whenever he's really needed to do something he's done it. So how can you go against what Marvel clearly stated about his power? Marvel stated that Hulk, a mortal mans strength is unlimited and you seem to agree so whats wrong with Juggernaut a man empowered by a god who is said to have unlimited power strength being unlimited?
Because everything is limited and people just say unlimited to make it sound impressive. Hulk's strength was supposedly "unlimited" but War Hulk is clearly far more powerful than any other version of the hulk and equal to the mystical enchantment of the Cyttorak that makes Juggernauts forward motion "unstoppable".
Originally posted by aliveinboston
Rubbish. Not only was that stupid writing (Thor cannot breathe so he almost dies but he can survive in space and underwater without air??) but even with the stupid writing, they never portrayed Juggernaut as overpowered Thor with strength. In fact, when Thor was telling the civilians to run away, he was able to block the Juggernaut's blows with his arms.Juggernaut simply used superior reach when he couldnt breach Thor's defenses with his punching. The same way Maxam used his longer reach to pick up Hercules (who is stronger) and tossed him away into the ocean or Goliath able to pick up and smash the much stronger Hercules into a coma.
Even worse was that they wrote thor as being too stupid to disable the cytorrak with his hammer as he did the first time. In other words, it was simply idiotic writing.
Thanks to the cytorrak protection and the fact that it wasnt a full god-blast. Even the one that almost killed Galactus wasnt a full-god blast. When the cyttorak enchantments are removed Cain Marko is revealed to be just another punk in need of some good old fashioned corporal punishment.
Because everything is limited and people just say unlimited to make it sound impressive. Hulk's strength was supposedly "unlimited" but War Hulk is clearly far more powerful than any other version of the hulk and equal to the mystical enchantment of the Cyttorak that makes Juggernauts forward motion "unstoppable".
In one panel did he tell Civilians to run away, the others he was just getting his head banged in, so get at me. How was he able to block Juggernauts blows? Thor was getting tossed through buildings in such the whole time.
So your saying that because his reach is longer Juggernaut was able to overpower Thor? sorry my friend, but that doesn't make much sense. Lets use basketball players for example, we both know that Yao Mings reach is far more than Lebron James. Does that mean that Yao can overpower LeBron? well no. People who have far greater reach than me cant overpower me, it deals with strength not reach.
How many times are you going to ignore my argument with Juggernauts shield? Can you tell me a time when Juggernauts has had his force field activated all the time? according to Marvel you can tell Juggernauts shield is up when a red glow forms around his body. In that fight I didn't see any red glow, but that could be me. In there third fight Juggernaut didn't have his shield up yet he was still completely impervious to harm. It was just kind of weird how that comic threw Juggernauts power completely out of context. If you check the newest Juggernaut bio at Marvel, you'll see that Juggernaut has to call upon his shield with his mind for it to activate around him. Did he use his shield against Thor in there second or third fight? no yet he still overpowered Thor both times. Shit he nearly killed Thor the third time they fought with a hug, and note this is without his shield. Thus from that scene it appeared that Juggernaut was far stronger than Thor because he simply tossed him around like a rug. This is why so many people disregard there second fight, it went against every thing we know about Juggernaut.
Now tell me why thats the only time Juggernauts shield has ever derived from his shield?
Cyttoraks protection on Juggernaut has nothing to do with the power of Thors god blast so where did you get that from?
Originally posted by grey fox
Nope.Also by chance do you know a fellow by the name of bigboygreen ?
Nah, I checked.
Anyway, try not to act too much like an ignorant fanboy hulk=strength (with name-calling and such). With a name like that, if you manage to overcome that stigma, it'll be a small miracle.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
According to your theory War Hulk out of all the Hulks was the only one able to give Juggernaut a good fight. This means that Juggernaut is greater in strength and power than Savage Hulk. This is why Marvel had to give him War Hulk a different degree of unlimited strength. Thus Juggernauts infinite power is greater than Savage Hulks, so they created War Hulk.
Even their very first fight ever was about as good as the one with War Hulk.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Another time Juggernaut was able to increase his power was when he fought D'Spayre. Although he lost 90% of his power, he was able to get mad which was clearly stated in the comic and boost his powers back up. Thus he was able to walk, and talk with his body reduced to a skeleton.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
BTW Juggernaut had to have a good fight with War Hulk, to show that War Hulk was a much more powerful Hulk. If War Hulk wasn't a far more powerful Hulk, then Marvel wouldn't have created him.
In their whole fight, War was toying and ridiculing Cain while Cain actually felt reluctant to fight for the first time. Overall, what’s to keep Savage Hulk from reaching this level?
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Are you serious? Juggernaut in that fight nearly broke Hulks neck. That fight only ended because Juggernaut in some magicle way was ko'd by tk. Juggernaut said Hulk was to dumb to understand that he was unstoppable.
And by the way, it's not "magical" when Cain is knocked out by a telepathic attack.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
When they fought the second time surprise or not Hulk had enough time to recover, but he didn't. In that fight it was clear that Juggernaut was just too much for Hulk.
With Banner's mind in control, all that ambition, drive, and rage that allow the Hulk to become stronger is repressed once again (because Banner's mind is what represses them in the first place). Savage Hulk, on the other hand, is all of those feelings unleashed, meaning he could easily grow stronger at a much faster pace than the Professor incarnation.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Did you read Hulk 172? do you have the scans? because I do
Originally posted by Soujaboy
BTW in Hulk 172 it stated that Juggernauts strength can and was growing.
Originally posted by leonidas
😕in hulk 172 (??) hulk tossed juggs all over the place and clearly had the upperhand in the fight before tossing him through a mountain and walking away. juggs couldn't even defeat prof definitively without the element of surprise.
there's no reason to think savage couldn't reach war level either. to the best of my knowledge savage has never really TRIED to stop juggs . . .
???
What are you talking about 'clearly had the upper hand'? Cain was beating Hulk's ass the only time he 'threw him all over the place' was once and that was when he threw him into the mountain. Juggernaut wasn't even hurt how cna Hulk have had the advantage.
Originally posted by Warmonger
???
What are you talking about 'clearly had the upper hand'? Cain was beating Hulk's ass the only time he 'threw him all over the place' was once and that was when he threw him into the mountain. Juggernaut wasn't even hurt how cna Hulk have had the advantage.
did you ever read the issue? by upperhand i was referring to strength, btw. if you think hulk did NOT appear the stronger of the 2, no reason to answer my initial question. 😉
Originally posted by Accel
Pretty much all versions of the Hulk have given the Juggernaut a good fight (except for Prof. Hulk). They typically stalemate each other. War is just the only one that actually made Juggernaut scared (if even only a little bit).Even their very first fight ever was about as good as the one with War Hulk.
I don't see how this is relevant. Being able to walk and talk as a skeleton really seems more like a "magical" thing than a "strength" thing.
There was no real evidence to support that War Hulk was more powerful than Savage Hulk. Just the fact that he stopped a charging Juggernaut, which was supposedly only due to the Celestial tech. If it was actually done by brute force, then the scenario indicates that with enough force, the Juggernaut CAN be stopped.
In their whole fight, War was toying and ridiculing Cain while Cain actually felt reluctant to fight for the first time. Overall, what’s to keep Savage Hulk from reaching this level?
And why didn’t he break Hulk’s neck? Because Hulk just simply picked him off, swung him around, and threw him into a cliff; not bad, considering he was ambushed from behind.
And by the way, it's not "magical" when Cain is knocked out by a telepathic attack.
Wasn’t that Professor Hulk? If so, that’s nothing to be reall proud of. He’s been knocked around by tons of folks. Professor Hulk is probably the most hated incarnation of the Hulk, since all of his showings had to be taken with a grain of salt. Since he retained Banner's mind, he was still Banner (ie a wuss) at heart.
With Banner's mind in control, all that ambition, drive, and rage that allow the Hulk to become stronger is repressed once again (because Banner's mind is what represses them in the first place). Savage Hulk, on the other hand, is all of those feelings unleashed, meaning he could easily grow stronger at a much faster pace than the Professor incarnation.
Good for you. 😐
This was stated by Cain himself, who also said for some reason that Hulk was getting weaker. If we’re going by characters’ words, then Hulk really is the strongest one there is, since he yells it all the damn time.
nice. 😉
and i'd really like to know how my topic got changed into a juggs v hulk and thor thread . . . 🙁
Originally posted by Accel
Pretty much all versions of the Hulk have given the Juggernaut a good fight (except for Prof. Hulk). They typically stalemate each other. War is just the only one that actually made Juggernaut scared (if even only a little bit).Even their very first fight ever was about as good as the one with War Hulk.
I don't see how this is relevant. Being able to walk and talk as a skeleton really seems more like a "magical" thing than a "strength" thing.
There was no real evidence to support that War Hulk was more powerful than Savage Hulk. Just the fact that he stopped a charging Juggernaut, which was supposedly only due to the Celestial tech. If it was actually done by brute force, then the scenario indicates that with enough force, the Juggernaut CAN be stopped.
In their whole fight, War was toying and ridiculing Cain while Cain actually felt reluctant to fight for the first time. Overall, what’s to keep Savage Hulk from reaching this level?
And why didn’t he break Hulk’s neck? Because Hulk just simply picked him off, swung him around, and threw him into a cliff; not bad, considering he was ambushed from behind.
And by the way, it's not "magical" when Cain is knocked out by a telepathic attack.
Wasn’t that Professor Hulk? If so, that’s nothing to be reall proud of. He’s been knocked around by tons of folks. Professor Hulk is probably the most hated incarnation of the Hulk, since all of his showings had to be taken with a grain of salt. Since he retained Banner's mind, he was still Banner (ie a wuss) at heart.
With Banner's mind in control, all that ambition, drive, and rage that allow the Hulk to become stronger is repressed once again (because Banner's mind is what represses them in the first place). Savage Hulk, on the other hand, is all of those feelings unleashed, meaning he could easily grow stronger at a much faster pace than the Professor incarnation.
Good for you. 😐
This was stated by Cain himself, who also said for some reason that Hulk was getting weaker. If we’re going by characters’ words, then Hulk really is the strongest one there is, since he yells it all the damn time.
All good points except the one with War Hulk. If War Hulk wasn't stronger than Savage Hulk, then why was he created? besides that his strength was increasing, he was drawing power from 2 separate dimensions.
In hUlk #172 Hulk was the first to throw a punch, so how was he ambushed? He was the knocked over a mountain, and then kicked to the ground. This is when Cain tried to break Hulks neck. Hulk then picked him up and threw him into the mountain, Juggernaut got up, called Hulk dumb because he couldn't comprehend that he was unstoppable. Before Juggernaut could charge back at Hulk, Prof X came and tk'd him.
The Skeleton example was to say even though his power was drained he was able to boost himself back up.