The most powerful Apprentice

ANH Obi-wan was supposed to be the strongest jedi during ANH and he lost to Vader, think about this. Obi-Wan is even stronger than he was in rots and he couldnt beat vader. So vader obv did not suck if he did he would be pwned by obi. and he wasnt pwned. in fact vader said that obi was weak. so vader must of had considerable strength. and Luke is even stronger than either of them, i am sure obi-wan would let himself get killed if he didnt believe that luke was stronger than himself, yoda, and darth, and the emperor. So Luke Rocks!

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Can you prove that Dooku is better? GL specifically said Vader 80% of Sidious, which is ROTJ Sidious, who is better than ROTS Sidious. That puts Vader somewhere above 80% of Dooku.

For starters, try reading your own post. 😉

Secondly, while Sidious may have become more knowledgeable and skillful in the arts of the Force, but he certainly didn't gain raw power. His Force mastery increased, not his base power or maximum potential.

And lastly, Lucas said that Vader, after his crippling accident, would possess up to 80% of Sidious's maximum potential. Please explain to me your interpretation of the quote, which would be 'Vader is 80% of Sidious'. How does that even make sense?

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
ANH Obi-wan was supposed to be the strongest jedi during ANH and he lost to Vader, think about this. Obi-Wan is even stronger than he was in rots and he couldnt beat vader. So vader obv did not suck if he did he would be pwned by obi. and he wasnt pwned. in fact vader said that obi was weak. so vader must of had considerable strength. and Luke is even stronger than either of them, i am sure obi-wan would let himself get killed if he didnt believe that luke was stronger than himself, yoda, and darth, and the emperor. So Luke Rocks!

Oh, use some common sense, please. Obi-Wan sacrificed himself to Vader so that Luke would escape. If he hadn't, the only two beings who had a chance of stopping the Emperor and Vader would have been killed. The last hopes for the galaxy would have been destroyed.

And are you really going to Vader's opinion on Obi-Wan? One would think that he'd be slightly peeved at the Jedi for, oh, severing three limbs, having burn almost to death, and leaving trapped in a claustrophobic tank of a life-support system.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
DS, how would he have been thinking "for all these years" that Luke is better than ROTS Vader if it hasn't been out that long. (BTW, ROTJ Luke would probably take Anakin).

Dooku is maybe a little bit better than Vader, then Maul a pretty far way down.

It's half the potential, darthsith. Anakin, as of ROTS, wasn't even close to reaching his potential. Stop being thick.

What are you. . . ? *sigh*

It's really not that complicated. Before his 'accident', Anakin at full potential would have had, for simplicity's sake, 160% of Sidious's potential. After the 'accident', his maximum potential was cut in half. Meaning that his new maximum was 80% of Sidious's potential. So, by ROTJ, Vader has presumably reached his new maximum potential. He possesses the equivalent 80% of Sidious's raw power.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
What are you. . . ? *sigh*

It's really not that complicated. Before his 'accident', Anakin at full potential would have had, for simplicity's sake, 160% of Sidious's potential. After the 'accident', his maximum potential was cut in half. Meaning that his new maximum was 80% of Sidious's potential. So, by ROTJ, Vader has presumably reached his new maximum potential. He possesses the equivalent 80% of Sidious's raw power.

What are you. . . ? *sigh*

It's really not that complicated. Before his 'accident', Anakin at full potential would have had, for simplicity's sake, 200% of Sidious's potential. After the 'accident', his maximum potential was cut in half. Meaning that his new maximum was 100% of Sidious's potential. So, by ROTJ, Vader has presumably reached 80% of his new maximum potential. He possesses the equivalent 80% of Sidious's raw power in ROTJ.

If your going to give me information at least give me valid info.

Originally posted by ssj3gohan007
I agree with the first half of what your saying but like darth glentract said, rotj vader is 80% of Rotj palpy, meaning that rotj vader is perhaps 90% or higher than rots palpy, so dooku and maul is not necessarily superior. Vader is not as slow as you think, its just looks that way because technology wasnt nearly was as good back in the 70's ok. Vader fights fast enough, you need to look beyond the limits of technology in the OT.

look at grievous he is a robot too and yet he could move his lightsabers pretty damn fast. according to rots. robot or not vader is not a complete weakling. ok? thank you

yup... 😄

Originally posted by Tangible God
I've said many times before, and that is the sad thing between the O and PT.

The technology to give Vader uber saber-moves, in contrast to the timeline anyway, was not available when the OT was made.

In my opinion, Suit-Vader SHOULD totally kick ass, even comapred to ROTS Vader.

But alas, since the tech. was not available, and the prequel storyline had not been realised...

And anyway, since the movies are the ultimate canon, and we have to go by what we see, then Suit-Vader just plain sucked.

couldnt have said it better 😮‍💨

i got one question though, does darth maul have force choke like dooku and vader?

Originally posted by darthsith19

If your going to give me information at least give me valid info.

If you want to get technical about GL's quote, it stated that half of Anakin's maximum potential was the 80% figure. What's 80 x 2? Thought so.

Originally posted by Darth Faunus
If you want to get technical about GL's quote, it stated that half of Anakin's maximum potential was the 80% figure. What's 80 x 2? Thought so.

the episode 3 visual dictionary said vader cant use or deflect force lightning as a result of having prosthetic limbs. i thought vader being 80% of sidious meant that when rotj came around sidious had pretty much peaked in terms of power and vader had achieved about all he could with his suit, and he was 80% of sidious. thats never started but id always thought that was the meaning. vader isnt likley to be without his saber often, but he would be relying on it as his sole defence, and he threw it at luke in rotj so he was without it briefly.

i always thought lucas ment that vader would have been twice as powerful as sidious without the suit, not twice as powerful as he is with it.

Originally posted by Decay
the episode 3 visual dictionary said vader cant use or deflect force lightning as a result of having prosthetic limbs. i thought vader being 80% of sidious meant that when rotj came around sidious had pretty much peaked in terms of power and vader had achieved about all he could with his suit, and he was 80% of sidious. thats never started but id always thought that was the meaning. vader isnt likley to be without his saber often, but he would be relying on it as his sole defence, and he threw it at luke in rotj so he was without it briefly.

i always thought lucas ment that vader would have been twice as powerful as sidious without the suit, not twice as powerful as he is with it.

Originally posted by Decay
the episode 3 visual dictionary said vader cant use or deflect force lightning as a result of having prosthetic limbs. i thought vader being 80% of sidious meant that when rotj came around sidious had pretty much peaked in terms of power and vader had achieved about all he could with his suit, and he was 80% of sidious. thats never started but id always thought that was the meaning. vader isnt likley to be without his saber often, but he would be relying on it as his sole defence, and he threw it at luke in rotj so he was without it briefly.

i always thought lucas ment that vader would have been twice as powerful as sidious without the suit, not twice as powerful as he is with it.

For the force lightning thing, that doesn't make any sense. He can still block the lightning as soon as in reaches his arm stubs.

Not that it matters much by then. His limbs would be cooked, and then the rest of his suit.

What do you mean his limbs would be cooked? Also note that his suit still worked after being hit by Sidious' force lightning.

barely if at all. he couldnt walk and could barely breathe. my guess would be is that all his mech parts were skrewed. luke dragged him becuase his meck legs were useless. luke took his mask off because his mech arms were. id also guess that his breather stopped and he was having to manually do most of it himself which is why it sounds so laboured. he probably had enough of the internal stuff going to keep him alive briefly, while using the force to help sustain him. its also interesting to note that if you look at his skeleton when hes lit up by the lightning a few of his vertebre are mechanical, if they were shorted out it could mean his legs and arms worked, but without the mechanical part of his spine to deliver messages they were useless to him and he was a quadraplegic.

and yeah that makes sense darth sith. hes nowhere near as old as the emperor so wouldnt have the knowlege he does and all that.

I guess you missed the part where as he is being shocked he is still carrying Sidious over his head.

Also, notice that age doesn't appear to matter much in SW. Look at Yoda. If it went only by age, he should be able to pwn most anybody. Same with Odan-Urr.

No, Suit Vader, being mechanical, would be killed by lightning, i.e. ROTJ, eventually anyway.

I mean, even after having is hand lopped off, he got up right away to watch the fireworks, but he went down like a ton of bricks after like 5 seconds of shocking. And he died like, what(?), 15 minutes later.

And I never read or heard GL's quote on Vader's power, but did he specifically say that ROTJ Vader was 80% of ROTJ Palpatine? Or did he say that ROTJ Vader was 80% of ROTS Palpatine?

It's not like GL to contradict himself, but by the sound of it, he would be when analyzing this whole 80% thing, in contrast to, and measuring up against, other opponents.

GL didn't specify which Palpatine, but I think it was in the ROTJ commentary so presumable that one.

BTW, it was stated that Vader was hurt more by that blue wave energy stuff that came up than the lightning itself. The lightning certainly hurt his, but it was the blast that finished his suit off.

Vader also was able to sustain himself without his suit when he wanted to but it required a lot of effort. Does anyone wonder if perhaps Vader just let go when he knew that he had fufilled his destiny and couldn't live withhimself after what he had done?