Originally posted by Blair Wind
well considering he can go all the way, its a cinch....however I do agree that Doomsday will win, coming up with some BS way of overcoming it...
DD cannot stop wisdom teeth from coming in, and neither can I 🙁 Gonna go see the oral surgeon in 30 min. and if he has time, get all four taken out. 😘
"It's like calling Galactus a universe threat... potentially, sure, but still goes galaxy to galaxy, planet to planet. The fact that Imperiex had to advance- and get styimed by Earth- similar to Galactus proves his scale far below what you imagined. If his powers as described by you matched his goals as described by the comics, he would have been satisfied to restart the universe at its edge absent interference."
Imperiex succeded in doing everything he set out to do. It was his purpose to come to Earth and be sent through the boomtube, so he could complete his task. Read it again. In a way he stopped, in another, he succeded. Depends on POV I guess.
"Now now, a Superman fan ought to know better. We've seen Kal-El unleash the limits of his heat vision and find himself tapped out on several occasions. It was nowhere NEAR the scale of power necessary for single-shot planet busting. But it does reveal your bias... "Superman is on that scale, thus the monster that killed him must be that much more!" "
Read Superman, BURN!!! issue. The temperature of his heat vision is hotter than stars are, the Cadmus scientists can't even calculate it when he turns it up. And he's already proven he can hit the entire planet with it. The Superman you're talking about, and current Superman, are two different things. Current Superman could smash planets to pieces if he felt the need. He wouldn't need to do the 'nuke' thing by hitting the ground a bunch. Even in a scuffle with Black Adam he noted that one of his random punches could smash the moon in half. And that's not even "all out, bloodlusted" Superman. You probably still think Superman is slower than light speed too, lol.
You still honestly think Ice Man can beat Doomsday with cold powers?
We've seen other ice powers [although weaker I agree] have no effect on him...
Also...He's floated through space many times....
Empty space is three degrees centigrade above absolute zero, and that's because of ambient microwave radiation.
This would mean his body has already adapted fully to a 3 degree difference from absolute zero at the very minimum.
Originally posted by Blair WindHow do they go "faster than light', without becoming light, as scientifically, light itself has the properties of solid matter, so... solid matter, moving at the speed of light, is . . .light.
means nothing once it actually reaches absolute zero...in comics, Im sure that Doomsday would win....but how can someone come out of absolute zero movement????
It's a comic book.
And technically it's an utter impossibility for Bobby to even create absolute zero, when the ambient microwave radiation of Earth, let alone empty space, would completely prevent it's possibility in a natural enviroment.
So should we ask:
. . . how can Bobby do it?
Or how would Doomsday survive it?
We've seen Doomsday survive the nearest thing that occurs naturally to it... 3 degrees centigrade above absolute zero... I'm convinced he could easily survive an extra 3 degrees.
Originally posted by Blair WindHow did he survive in Entropy..?
I know but that can be explained through comic book "science" ie: speed force, Superman being Kryptonian, math equations....but how could they really explain someone coming back from absolute zero...even in comic book world that has to hold some relevance...
here it is....also my point mainly is that while doomsday can survive in space, there is still movement...so its comic book wise, plausible....but really how is having NO movement gonna let him move...and I know Im about to show my ignorance on a lot of things...but what happened in Entropy?
heres the desription:
Bobby Drake could be, potentially, one of the most powerful mutants on the planet. Look at his power. People say “Ooh! He makes ice.” Or
now, “Ooh, he can turn himself into ice!
But let’s step back. Basic physics says that there is no such thing
as “cold”, as a quantative energy form. Only degrees of heat. “Cold” is
a relative term, requiring a difference between the observerd target and
the temperature of the observer. Example:
I’m standing in my office, at a nice 73 degrees. The cabbie outside is
standing on the street, shivering in 40 degrees. To me, he is cold.
Whereas if I were buried in snow at around 20 degrees, I’d consider him
pretty warm.
Right then, we’ve established that there is no such energy form
as “cold”. So, Bobby doesn’t generate cold to form ice, and he doesn’t
generate the moisture himself (imagine how quickly he’d be dehydrated). Therefore, he forms his ice structures from the ambient
moisture in the enviroment around him. To do this he causes the
moisture to freeze.
But how? We know he doesn’t “project cold”, so then he must absorb or
dissipate the heat. By the laws of thermodynamics, energy is constant,
it cannot be created or destroyed. However, let’s go to another scientific
principle. Heat is a measurement of the internal kinetic energy of an
object. The more those atoms and molecules are buzzing
around, the hotter it is.
What Bobby Drake does, as I see it, is project a field that inhibits the
motion of those particles (herein referred to as Brownian Motion) thus
dropping the temperature and freezing the moisture.
However, the amount of water vapor in any given area is not consistent
with the large stunts he regularly pulls of ( Ice slides, ice walls, ect). If
he wer to coalesce that much water vapor in one place and freeze it, the
humidity all along the Eastern Seaboard would drop dramatically, we’d
have wildcat lightning storms all over the place, cats and dogs
living together, it would be anarchy, you see my point.
So that extra frozen mass has to come from somewere. Remember water vapor isn’t the only thing in the air. You have a mixture of all
sorts of gases. One of the most prominent of these is carbon dioxide.
Compared to the other prominent gases in our atmosphere
(nitrogen, the most common, and oxygen), carbon dioxide has a
relatively high temperature (although still incredibly low) at which it
becomes solid. It is my theory that the most part of Bobby’s ice
structures are composed of frozen carbon dioxide, or “dry ice”. This
would explain why Manhattan isn’t flooded everytime his ice slides melt,
since most of it sumblimes into gaseous carbon dioxide.
So, what Bobby does is inhibit the Brownian Motion of objects. He can
do this so quickly that there is no expansion of the target’s water
content, as was seen when he flash-froze Legion completely. Had he
merely frozen all the moisture in Legion’s body, well....put an unopened
can of soda in the freezer sometime. Wait a few days. Watch the results.
Legion would be a messy red chunck when he thawed.
Bobby is an incredibly powerful cryokinetic. But thats not the only extent
to his powers. Since Mikhail’s fiddling, he can transform his entire body
into a water-based organism. In his form of homogenous ice, his
thought processes go on, even though water is a MUCH less efficient
conductor than neurons in the human brain. Basically, Bobby converts
all the molecules of his body into water, and freezes it and molds it as
he moves. He has the capability to assume a completely liquid form (as
Emma did when in control of his body) as well has the ability
to “teleport” by zapping his consciousness through water vapor in the
atmosphere, reforming at his desired location. In AoA, this was referred
to “moisture inversion”. He has also shown the ability to “levitate”
himself though he rarely uses this ability.
Through time and practice Bobby could one day realize his potiental.
Here are somethings that could do through realization and training:
Create a “giant” ice form with corresponding strength and stability
Create and animate multiple ice forms
Coalese all the water vapor in an area into a superdense solid, dropping
the humidity rapidly, resulting in chaotic weather effects, mass electrical
storms, ect
Inhibiting the moisture in other peoples bodies causing havok on them, or hitching a ride.
As well as many other stunts. In closing, Bobby is a rightful Omega
class powered mutant he just hasnt realized his full potiental as of yet.
Originally posted by Blair WindYes, Bobby is badass, I agree. However, in a natural uncontrolled enviroment, there is still degrees of energy in the air, even in the emptiness of space there is microwaves producing a miniscule amount of heat. Needless to say MASS in itself also naturally produces heat. In a natural enviroment, Absolute Zero is IMPOSSIBLE. It CANNOT happen. But, it's a comic book. lol.
here it is....also my point mainly is that while doomsday can survive in space, there is still movement...so its comic book wise, plausible....but really how is having NO movement gonna let him move...and I know Im about to show my ignorance on a lot of things...but what happened in Entropy?heres the desription:
Bobby Drake could be, potentially, one of the most powerful mutants on the planet. Look at his power. People say “Ooh! He makes ice.” Or
now, “Ooh, he can turn himself into ice!But let’s step back. Basic physics says that there is no such thing
as “cold”, as a quantative energy form. Only degrees of heat. “Cold” is
a relative term, requiring a difference between the observerd target and
the temperature of the observer. Example:
I’m standing in my office, at a nice 73 degrees. The cabbie outside is
standing on the street, shivering in 40 degrees. To me, he is cold.
Whereas if I were buried in snow at around 20 degrees, I’d consider him
pretty warm.Right then, we’ve established that there is no such energy form
as “cold”. So, Bobby doesn’t generate cold to form ice, and he doesn’t
generate the moisture himself (imagine how quickly he’d be dehydrated). Therefore, he forms his ice structures from the ambient
moisture in the enviroment around him. To do this he causes the
moisture to freeze.But how? We know he doesn’t “project cold”, so then he must absorb or
dissipate the heat. By the laws of thermodynamics, energy is constant,
it cannot be created or destroyed. However, let’s go to another scientific
principle. Heat is a measurement of the internal kinetic energy of an
object. The more those atoms and molecules are buzzing
around, the hotter it is.What Bobby Drake does, as I see it, is project a field that inhibits the
motion of those particles (herein referred to as Brownian Motion) thus
dropping the temperature and freezing the moisture.However, the amount of water vapor in any given area is not consistent
with the large stunts he regularly pulls of ( Ice slides, ice walls, ect). If
he wer to coalesce that much water vapor in one place and freeze it, the
humidity all along the Eastern Seaboard would drop dramatically, we’d
have wildcat lightning storms all over the place, cats and dogs
living together, it would be anarchy, you see my point.So that extra frozen mass has to come from somewere. Remember water vapor isn’t the only thing in the air. You have a mixture of all
sorts of gases. One of the most prominent of these is carbon dioxide.
Compared to the other prominent gases in our atmosphere
(nitrogen, the most common, and oxygen), carbon dioxide has a
relatively high temperature (although still incredibly low) at which it
becomes solid. It is my theory that the most part of Bobby’s ice
structures are composed of frozen carbon dioxide, or “dry ice”. This
would explain why Manhattan isn’t flooded everytime his ice slides melt,
since most of it sumblimes into gaseous carbon dioxide.So, what Bobby does is inhibit the Brownian Motion of objects. He can
do this so quickly that there is no expansion of the target’s water
content, as was seen when he flash-froze Legion completely. Had he
merely frozen all the moisture in Legion’s body, well....put an unopened
can of soda in the freezer sometime. Wait a few days. Watch the results.
Legion would be a messy red chunck when he thawed.Bobby is an incredibly powerful cryokinetic. But thats not the only extent
to his powers. Since Mikhail’s fiddling, he can transform his entire body
into a water-based organism. In his form of homogenous ice, his
thought processes go on, even though water is a MUCH less efficient
conductor than neurons in the human brain. Basically, Bobby converts
all the molecules of his body into water, and freezes it and molds it as
he moves. He has the capability to assume a completely liquid form (as
Emma did when in control of his body) as well has the ability
to “teleport” by zapping his consciousness through water vapor in the
atmosphere, reforming at his desired location. In AoA, this was referred
to “moisture inversion”. He has also shown the ability to “levitate”
himself though he rarely uses this ability.Through time and practice Bobby could one day realize his potiental.
Here are somethings that could do through realization and training:Create a “giant” ice form with corresponding strength and stability
Create and animate multiple ice forms
Coalese all the water vapor in an area into a superdense solid, dropping
the humidity rapidly, resulting in chaotic weather effects, mass electrical
storms, ect
Inhibiting the moisture in other peoples bodies causing havok on them, or hitching a ride.As well as many other stunts. In closing, Bobby is a rightful Omega
class powered mutant he just hasnt realized his full potiental as of yet.
Entropy is the end of time, where nothing exists, and anything that touches entropy is destroyed-- as seen in Zero Hour, when Hal unleashed entropy across the timestream and erased reality. However, for a period of time, he existed inside of entropy with no outside influence supporting him, such as Waverider being a master of chronal energy was protecting himself and Superman which by the way he was talking, he couldn't stay in the Entropy long without being ripped apart himself.
not really sure what to say to that, Its a bit perplexing....
but to comment on Iceman....what *I* think happens is when he produces that Brownian Motion field, everything in that field is under his control and can go as cold as he wants it....but Im not sure what to say about the whole entropy thing...its just one of those things that puts a wrench in things...chalk it up to comic book stupidity?? nah didnt think so...Im lost as to what to say...
Originally posted by Blair WindSo inside of the 'Brownian Field'[which seems something this guy made up to account for the make-believe and apply science.], he controls all energy, such as light and radiation, which have nothing to do with 'cold'[which is merely the absense of heat.]? This would, in effect, means he also has control over the electromagnetic spectrum to enough of degree to create a completely energy-less -- and unnaffected by energy] vaccum to create his cold... but we know that's not true lol. Plus, as I said.. an object, any object with mass also has heat.. so an object can never reach absolute zero, because it's presence would prevent the possibility.
not really sure what to say to that, Its a bit perplexing....but to comment on Iceman....what *I* think happens is when he produces that Brownian Motion field, everything in that field is under his control and can go as cold as he wants it....but Im not sure what to say about the whole entropy thing...its just one of those things that puts a wrench in things...chalk it up to comic book stupidity?? nah didnt think so...Im lost as to what to say...
But obviously, Doomsday body can provide sufficient heat [assuming he even needs to.] to help him survive at three centigrade above absolute zero in empty space at the minimum.
nononono...I meant total control to make it as COLD as he wants (nothing to do with light in the essence the he can control light, he can control molecules, thats the difference..)....through moleculer ownage....but if the very presense's molecules were completely stopped, would that creature still produce heat?
Originally posted by Blair WindWhat I'm saying is, in a natural enviroment, absolute zero is scientifically impossible. Technically nothing can survive in Absolute Zero, not even matter can exist. Absolute zero would require the absense of all interference, such as mass, light, energy, radiation. Then again, Doomsday for a short time, survived inside of Entropy. Creating and surviving it are both impossibilties, you see. However, we know Doomsday as he has floated through space for years at the coldest it naturally gets in the universe.
nononono...I meant total control to make it as COLD as he wants (nothing to do with light in the essence the he can control light, he can control molecules, thats the difference..)....through moleculer ownage....but if the very presense's molecules were completely stopped, would that creature still produce heat?