ICEMAN vs. DOOMSDAY

Originally posted by Juntai
Read Superman, BURN!!! issue. The temperature of his heat vision is hotter than stars are, the Cadmus scientists can't even calculate it when he turns it up. And he's already proven he can hit the entire planet with it. The Superman you're talking about, and current Superman, are two different things. Current Superman could smash planets to pieces if he felt the need. He wouldn't need to do the 'nuke' thing by hitting the ground a bunch. Even in a scuffle with Black Adam he noted that one of his random punches could smash the moon in half. And that's not even "all out, bloodlusted" Superman. You probably still think Superman is slower than light speed too, lol.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder whether you're a Superman fan that actually reads the comics or just imagines some Supes in your head. Being hotter than the sun isn't really that big a deal, lightning reaches the sun's surface temps, nukes internal temps, regardless there's no proof he can produce a blast of that intensity and spread simultaneously. Instead we have evidence to the contrary. In recent history, Supes has tapped out fairly quickly using his heat vision. That's current Superman, no further back than S/B:GfK.

Regarding strength, there is NO evidence he could destroy Earth with one blow or any feats show it. Even if you take their statement to be fact- highly dubious (shockwaves of that level blows would be as, if not more, damaging to the environment than direct hits)- the Earth's some 81 times more massive... like claiming the ability to break a 3oz. piece of chalk indicates the power to smash a bowling ball in half.

Regarding speed, Superman's operating speed is well-documented to be significantly below lightspeed you will NEVER provide a showing otherwise because none exist. The ONLY times he has demonstrated superluminal abilities is under travelling conditions which are irrelevant to fighting. If we're going to take Superman's word for it, then current Superman has explicitly said he cannot exceed the speed of light.

What's hilarious is that you've created some SuperGod that doesn't exist in the comics.

Originally posted by Demas
I'm seriously beginning to wonder whether you're a Superman fan that actually reads the comics or just imagines some Supes in your head. Being hotter than the sun isn't really that big a deal, lightning reaches the sun's surface temps, nukes internal temps, regardless there's no proof he can produce a blast of that intensity and spread simultaneously. Instead we have evidence to the contrary. In recent history, Supes has tapped out fairly quickly using his heat vision. That's current Superman, no further back than S/B:GfK.

Regarding strength, there is NO evidence he could destroy Earth with one blow or any feats show it. Even if you take their statement to be fact- highly dubious (shockwaves of that level blows would be as, if not more, damaging to the environment than direct hits)- the Earth's some 81 times more massive... like claiming the ability to break a 3oz. piece of chalk indicates the power to smash a bowling ball in half.

Regarding speed, Superman's operating speed is well-documented to be significantly below lightspeed you will NEVER provide a showing otherwise because none exist. The ONLY times he has demonstrated superluminal abilities is under travelling conditions which are irrelevant to fighting. If we're going to take Superman's word for it, then current Superman has explicitly said he cannot exceed the speed of light.

What's hilarious is that you've created some SuperGod that doesn't exist in the comics.

Superman and Wonder Woman in Sacrifice were fighting beyond 10x the speed of light once you take into account the time Max Lord said the fight had taken and the fact the fight went to the sun and back in like 2 pages, then continued for another dozen or more once back on land.

But that has little to do with what's actually at hand, and that's that Iceman has no chance at beating Doomsday.

Which issue is that Superman/Wonder Woman fight? I would like to read it...

I'll grab it for you man, just wait till I'm done eating, can't go digging through my comics with greasy hands.
😄

Thanks. 😄

Only seen pages of it...

The bulk of the battle between them was WW 219.
But the Sacrifice 1-4 arc was Superman 219, Action Comics 829, Adventures of Superaman 642, Wonder Woman 219, then they had a few follow up tie ins with the Crisis.

Doomsday's adaptations are genetic, correct?

Originally posted by Juntai
The bulk of the battle between them was WW 219.
But the Sacrifice 1-4 arc was Superman 219, Action Comics 829, Adventures of Superaman 642, Wonder Woman 219, then they had a few follow up tie ins with the Crisis.

Thanks. 🙂

Originally posted by Juntai You obviously have no concept of how powerful Superman actually is when he turns it up. He's held black aloft Black holes, -- billions of times the mass of Earth.

You are taking that SOOO far out of context it's hilarious. A Superman fan should know better than to lie.

Nevermind the physics of containing any blackhole period (much less not instantly tearing the Tower apart- that is, if the blackhole fails to behave anything like a blackhole, who's to say it's has the actual traits of a blackhole)... it was a ONE time feat never duplicated again on ANY scale, easily a SMvFL call. If capable of affecting a mass billions of times that of Earth, he sure did strain moving planets afterwards on repeated occassions more current in continunity.

Superman and Wonder Woman in Sacrifice were fighting beyond 10x the speed of light once you take into account the time Max Lord said the fight had taken and the fact the fight went to the sun and back in like 2 pages, then continued for another dozen or more once back on land.

On the DCBoards, the artist has explicitly stated that he took artistic license to draw them as closer to the sun, however the script called only for their fight to take place on the edge of atmosphere/space. He said he didn't want to calculate the curvature of the sun at that distance and simply went for what was most artistic appealing to him.

Regardless, even if you want to take the art as a literal interpretation of their distance from the sun, some adamant fans calculated the distance based on the lowest exhibited curvature and still found the distance to be significant enough to be far below the speed of light.

So taken symbolically, we have the interpretation from both the author's script and the artist's mouth. Taken literally we have the calculations. All of which are sub-light. Even if you want to deny both and create your own interpretation, then we're still in SMvFL territory... also, since we lack the content of the fight, we can't say how much was travelling and how much was operational. Even if Supes is travelling at super-luminal speeds, this was never the point of contention, he would need to be OPERATING at said speeds, not simply acting as he was TRAVELLING in a linear direction at those speeds. Again, like claiming any action taken by a GL while performing FTL travel indicates FTL operating speeds. Two very different things.

But that has little to do with what's actually at hand, and that's that Iceman has no chance at beating Doomsday.

Clearly in your mind since you've completely got the scales of power wrong.

Doomsday wins because i hate how icemans power is now above cosmic on this forum...

hey, no one has ever said he could be a cosmic character.....that would be wolverine fanboys.....

He is not that powerful...not enough to be in the same category of a beast who made superman his bich...

Originally posted by Demas You are taking that SOOO far out of context it's hilarious. A Superman fan should know better than to lie.

Nevermind the physics of containing any blackhole period (much less not instantly tearing the Tower apart- that is, if the blackhole fails to behave anything like a blackhole, who's to say it's has the actual traits of a blackhole)... it was a ONE time feat never duplicated again on ANY scale, easily a SMvFL call. If capable of affecting a mass billions of times that of Earth, he sure did strain moving planets afterwards on repeated occassions more current in continunity.

On the DCBoards, the artist has explicitly stated that he took artistic license to draw them as closer to the sun, however the script called only for their fight to take place on the edge of atmosphere/space. He said he didn't want to calculate the curvature of the sun at that distance and simply went for what was most artistic appealing to him.

Regardless, even if you want to take the art as a literal interpretation of their distance from the sun, some adamant fans calculated the distance based on the lowest exhibited curvature and still found the distance to be significant enough to be far below the speed of light.

So taken symbolically, we have the interpretation from both the author's script and the artist's mouth. Taken literally we have the calculations. All of which are sub-light. Even if you want to deny both and create your own interpretation, then we're still in SMvFL territory... also, since we lack the content of the fight, we can't say how much was travelling and how much was operational. Even if Supes is travelling at super-luminal speeds, this was never the point of contention, he would need to be OPERATING at said speeds, not simply acting as he was TRAVELLING in a linear direction at those speeds. Again, like claiming any action taken by a GL while performing FTL travel indicates FTL operating speeds. Two very different things.

Clearly in your mind since you've completely got the scales of power wrong.

Has Iceman ever frozen a character on Doomsday level before?

He froze legion solid(legion is prof. X multipersonality uber-powerful time-travling,reality altering psi son. Who would totaly woop doomesdays ass)

Legion has the durability of a normal man, no?

Originally posted by superbatman86
He froze legion solid(legion is prof. X multipersonality uber-powerful time-travling,reality altering psi son. Who would totaly woop doomesdays ass)

Even if Iceman defeated that guy, he still hasn't beaten DOOMSDAY, which is the point. People FARRRRRRRRR above and beyond him in power have lost. Plus he's adapted to most extreme cold in the universe already. What chance does he have?

Originally posted by Juntai
Do you even know who Doomsday is or who he's defeated?

Even if Iceman defeated that guy, he still hasn't beaten DOOMSDAY, which is the point. People FARRRRRRRRR above and beyond him in power have lost. Plus he's adapted to most extreme cold in the universe already. What chance does he have?

Do you even know who legion is? He could erase doomesday from existance with a thought.You can't adapt to absolute zero because even the process that allows him to evolve would be stopped.

Originally posted by superbatman86
Do you even know who legion is? He could erase doomesday from existance with a thought.You can't adapt to absolute zero because even the process that allows him to evolve would be stopped.

Sorry, I don't see him wiping Doomsday from existance. Doomsday took down many people seemingly beyond his capabilities. Like Guardians. Would you rank Legion above Guardians? They are universe level destroyers, as found in JLA/Avengers when one of them solo [although powered up from destroying universes] beat down and killed Galactus [who later reformed] and Grandmaster wielding items like The Infinity Gauntlet and the Cosmic Cubes, and a plethora of others.

And Doomsday has already adapted to psi-powers, they're useless on him.

Originally posted by Juntai Yet, he did it,

Actually he didn't. Nowhere did it say he was containing that magnitude of force, it's only assumed so on your part that the "black hole"- which behaves nothing like one and likely lacks it's traits- is like our black holes. Bottom line, show me Superman one-shot planet busting power.

But it's what happened in the comic that matters

Exactly. Based on calculations and interpretation, there was no lightspeed involved. And then EVEN if you decide to go off your nut, ignore all evidence, and say he was travelling at lightspeed anyways... it only proves lightspeed TRAVEL, which we've all acknowledge is possible for Supes but is significantly different than lightspeed OPERATION or fighting speeds. NO ONE claims a Green Lantern can operate and fight at lightspeeds despite being able to travel faster-than-light quite easily.

Similar to how you think Ice man is a world destroyer

Since that's the definition of Omega Class mutant, a title not handed out lightly in the MU. You literally have people capable of global extinction events- Xavier/Magneto- but they STILL don't qualify for Omega Class, since it's all about One-Shot Planet Busting... something Doomsday isn't capable of doing or proving he can withstand.